Log file opened at: 4/19/02 1:22:10 AM *** Topic for #vfhome: http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2002/4/17/114913/762 - Guide to being less sucky *** Topic for #vfhome set by Reno- on Friday, April 19, 2002 1:09:12 AM #vfhome: rsw lilbich Sleepmon Moeb`afk UnCBrb Drow-Z jjcha-mee ghostdog @JackeyGo Crazy-J kil mikeohara @Reno- jidan toohectic @baobab ETP @[jhk] @SummAh Tony_Danz tigSLEEP @Mail-Pai @Myke` Bunkei @ChoiBoy @CreeeD superboog somedude2 @DevilRei @dodee Yakiniku @CrewNYC vf4guy ShinJin FeAr187 Chr|s @AwayEug @tragic kofman ^Zippy^ @VFidle @Yasakani @Shou-sama truking @clo *** End of /NAMES list. *** Mode is +stn *** Channel created at Thursday, July 12, 2001 2:30:16 PM *** Mode change "+o rsw" on #vfhome by AwayEug ghostdog: aoi=reversals, inashi, sabaki, throws, double stop-> F+K, K->tech roll oki CrewNYC: I hate flying CrewNYC: why cant there be express flights coast to coast in under 5 hours baobab: ghost: which of aoi's sabakis do you find most useful? CrewNYC: you can goto paris in 4 hours CrewNYC: yeesh *** Signoff: CreeeD (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) ghostdog: i like f, b+P *** CreeeD (blo@ip142167017232.prexar.com) has joined channel #vfhome baobab: FAA set a speed limit on flights in the US *** Mode change "+o CreeeD" on #vfhome by AwayEug CreeeD: woooow! rsw: did you have a fun crash? CreeeD: that was awesome! Tony_Danz: CREED! ghostdog: after something like a knee or mid kick CreeeD: general protection fault! Tony_Danz: can you please resume the dl? Mail-Pai: 3Q crew CreeeD: holy crap that was cool. rsw: what exactly is a general protection fault? CreeeD: I found out you can edit the registry so that your blue crash screen of doom is other colors. Tony_Danz: what was cool creed? Tony_Danz: oh baobab: ghost: yeah seems like a good one, cause if you mess it up you'll get the b+p one instead CreeeD: rsw: two apps try to call the same process at once and your kernel's too busy to handle it and route the second app elsewhere. CrewNYC: 13 hours to goto JAPAN! CrewNYC: oh man rsw: oic. CreeeD: yeah dude it's a coolass flight CrewNYC: sitting in a coach seat for me CreeeD: sleep, party, flirt with the attendant CreeeD: and the female attendants too. CrewNYC: I flew to boston and my knee's hurt CrewNYC: seats get smaller every year I think CreeeD: that suck's. CrewNYC: until the seats only fit kids Tony_Danz: I'm scared of flying on planes baobab: crew: see if you can fly quantas, they kick ass CrewNYC: quantas? CreeeD: that's aussie, no? Myke`: qantas Myke`: yes baobab: the aussie airline DevilRei: OZZIE OZZIE OZZIE CreeeD: welp, I'm ready for vF5, or failing that quake 4. baobab: the only time my fiance was comfortable on a plane... DevilRei: CreeD: FV3 CreeeD: I'll pass. DevilRei: T_T CreeeD: so sorry! ETP: heh baobab: 'cause flying scares the bejeezus uotta her UnCBrb: j0 UnCBrb: we ready? Tony_Danz: Creed, Tekken 5!!!!111! CreeeD: pass./ jjcha-mee: hey andy you play any mgs2? Tony_Danz: hah I know you would say that Tony_Danz: knew CreeeD: indeed! ETP: UnCBrb: i dont think nandato is back just yet CrewNYC: nope, I dont really play anything anymore outside vf4 :( ETP: he was playing a bit of quake while he waited for you jjcha-mee: hmm CrewNYC: im a single game gamer Myke`: bao you're engaged? UnCBrb: i'm a mutt gamer Myke`: or married? Mail-Pai: crew, and single chick gamer baobab: monogamer relationship jjcha-mee: god baobab: myke: engaged Myke`: bao, cool, congrats CrewNYC: Where do ppl fly to in Aus where the vf'er are CrewNYC: melborne CrewNYC: or sydney? Myke`: sydney DevilRei: I play... VF4 and FV2, for fighters baobab: thanks myke DevilRei: Don't do much 2D anymore ^^; UnCBrb: i play whatever comes out UnCBrb: hah CreeeD: bao: bummer CrewNYC: PF! CreeeD: I'm so sorry! UnCBrb: my least played fighter this decade CrewNYC: $1300 to goto Aus! UnCBrb: was prolly UnCBrb: Tekken 4 UnCBrb: played that for like 2 weeks DevilRei: MAgical Drop! CrewNYC: BAH!!!!!!! baobab: laff creed knows all too well CrewNYC: Quantas arilines take 22hrs to goto Australia from NYC! Myke`: crew no shit CrewNYC: 22 hours :( oh man Myke`: killer CrewNYC: I would really like to visit Australia too ETP: why? DevilRei: Ozzieland would be fun DevilRei: I'm already set for Nagoya though, so...... baobab: but you get like 12 of those hours back :) CrewNYC: never been there seems like fun, saw some footage from olympics CrewNYC: australia looks awesome UnCBrb: well UnCBrb: back to playing jedi knight 2 Myke`: aussieland = top tier baobab: getting from australia to japan is prolly pretty cheap though CreeeD: no such thing as tiers!!!!!@!@ CreeeD: although aussieland is top tier!@!@!@! baobab: 'specially if you pay australian dollars Myke`: yeah that's right Myke`: it's economically viable for you to come to aussieland Myke`: our dollar is shit ETP: UnCBrb: who are we supposed to be playing with? CrewNYC: how much is a coke? CrewNYC: can baobab: the aus$ is like less valuable than the can$ :o UnCBrb: ETP: me silly Myke`: $1 UnCBrb: huhuhu Myke`: 50c for you CrewNYC: $1 aus? CrewNYC: its $1 us for a coke here *** nandato (nandato@227.new-york-02rh15rt-ny.dial-access.att.net) has joined channel #vfhome *** Mode change "+o nandato" on #vfhome by AwayEug CrewNYC: double? CrewNYC: wow ETP: UnCBrb: theres nandato, get him! UnCBrb: ready for UT sal? jjcha-mee: 1 dollar for a can of coke is sitll alot CrewNYC: sal reply to your post! :) jjcha-mee: its closer to 75 cents isnt it? nandato: yah im ready CrewNYC: in the USA? jjcha-mee: yah CrewNYC: a coke is a $1 is most big cities jjcha-mee: 12 oz can? jjcha-mee: maybe a 20 oz bottle CrewNYC: maybe .75 is less populated areas CrewNYC: yup baobab: crew: maybe that quantas flight was in aussie dollars ;) UnCBrb: hmm jjcha-mee: buck? geezus UnCBrb: coke is 2.00 here CrewNYC: 20oz is like 1.50 to 1.75 UnCBrb: well anywhere close to a theme park UnCBrb: we're talking a can CrewNYC: I payed a buck in SF too CrewNYC: in LA it was a buck in the machines baobab: 1.25 baobab: you live in midtown CrewNYC: chicago was like .40 CrewNYC: j/k jjcha-mee: man i've been working too much, i don't remember the lsat time i bought a non-subsidized coke baobab: 20oz bottle CrewNYC: actually chicago had the .75 machines for soda CrewNYC: nelson oh yeah, midtown =50% more CrewNYC: tourists CrewNYC: bag CrewNYC: bah CreeeD: cha: why don't you retire? CreeeD: I mean it's not like you need to work for a living. baobab: .75 for cans everywhere i go *CreeeD* here we go jjcha-mee: i think being an attorney for 2 years or so is a great learning experience... can move to a lot of other things afterwards CreeeD: sure. invest a few years in law school, drop a hundred grand or so, ... just so you can putz around with 'law' for a bit CreeeD: then move on to something fun UnCBrb: k setting up UT server ETP: lol nandato: k CreeeD: maybe golf course design or something. CrewNYC: watching changing lanes will distort ppls opinion of lawyers jjcha-mee: i dunno about fun CrewNYC: ben afleck does a good job CreeeD: crew: I don't see how they can distort it :) jjcha-mee: heh why? how is changing lanes? rsw: crew...wtf. the view is ALREADY negative jjcha-mee: geez its surprising most lawyers i know are fairly incompetent boors ^Zippy^: heh, "ben afleck does a good job" CreeeD: where does competence matter when you're making that sort of money anyway? might as well fuck around. baobab: most of the lawyers i know personally are pretty cool guys CrewNYC: makes attorneys seem very corrupt CreeeD: statistical fluke :) superboog: one of the ppl i live with is a lawyer =P dodee: makes...hahaha DevilRei: lawyer is right up there in the american mindset of sleazy, dirty jobs "meat butcher" "sanitation worker" "used car salesman" *** UnCauzi (UnCauzi@adsl-83-156-169.mco.bellsouth.net) has joined channel #vfhome baobab: 'course they don't get paid much somedude2: meat butcher isnt a dirty job DevilRei: yeah it is somedude2: but sanitation worker, ewwww superboog: meat butcher has a decent salary i bet.. DevilRei: not really UnCauzi: 65.83.156.169:7777 DevilRei: There's a lot of packing plants in Iowa DevilRei: it's really, really shitty work. DevilRei: most of the people who do it are immigrants, legal or otherwise baobab: most guys who work in meat packing plants are illegal immigrants baobab: mega dangerous job UnCauzi: hey i'm not illegal CreeeD: less fun than you'd think too. CreeeD: sal is :) rsw: i see that another interesting aspect of crew's dream-reality is the idea that lawyers in america are and always have been respectable, admired and looked up to DevilRei: If cutting out cow assholes all day sounds like fun to you... baobab: packing plants like to hire immigrants because when they get hurt on the job they usually don't file for comp ETP: DevilRei: it sure is CrewNYC: rsw get off it DevilRei scoots away from ETP nandato: la migra is coming ...oh shit!! CrewNYC: it is reality that doctors and lawyers are the two most highly respected professions in this country CreeeD: lofl sal! somedude2: looks like it's gonna be another great vfhome argument rsw: ... CreeeD: AIEEE LA MIGRA! VAMONOS VAMONOS! baobab: there are all sorts of fatalities every year at meat packing plants DevilRei: Lionel Hutz! somedude2: i thought it was doctors and firemen... rsw stares blankly at andy superboog: i think lawyers work pretty hard in general..like one of my housemates...she leaves at 7:30 in the morning, takes bart to sf, usually comes back at like 8-9 pm..that's a long day CrewNYC: hehe creed UnCauzi: are we going to plah? CrewNYC: sal that was a classic :) superboog: but i think when it comes to underpaid...competent teachers are underapaid. nandato: heh UnCauzi: play? DevilRei: NYC has obviously never seen a SImpsons episode rsw: doctors, perhaps...but lawyers? you're either ignorant or retarded to think that somedude2: yeah, i thought it was doctors and firemen... UnCauzi: etp UnCauzi: open location CrewNYC: they have been grouped together for the past two centuries as the mothers favorite two professions for a daughter to marry into UnCauzi: 65.83.156.169:7777 somedude2: lawyers are lke 12 steps below accountants now UnCauzi: gogogog DevilRei: because they make money. rsw: and you associate that with respectability? somedude2: cause of the money not the respect rsw: jesus you ARE retarded DevilRei: Of course, prostitutes make money too. CrewNYC: they are always paired together as the two most highly sought after careers for the past two hundred years DevilRei: Are they repsected? superboog: what about accountants at Andersen? somedude2: they ant their daughters to live at home and get kids baobab: some lawyers make money rsw: BECAUSE THEY MAKE MONEY YOU FUCKING IDIOT CrewNYC: mom's always right baobab: some make crap somedude2: money is apparently not a reason to get a job somedude2: and respect is CrewNYC: well they are respected for the most part ^Zippy^: "I want my daughter to marry a lawyer" and "I want my son to grow up to be a lawyer" is respect. superboog: get a job cuz u like it. rsw: crew, based on WHAT? CrewNYC: its not like the overwhelming majority of people dis respect lawyers or something DevilRei: no, it's greed CrewNYC: people think becoming a lawyer is an exciting thing CreeeD: defense lawyers = sleazy assholes who get rapists and thieves off. prosecutors = zealous assholes who are interested in a conviction, even if it's the wrong guy. Corporate attorneys = leeches and slaves who rise in power on the broken backs of the poor... tax lawyers = evasive sleazebags who are looking for ways to make the rich richer and the poor poorer... etc. That's the perception of lawyers in the usa crew. rsw: your examples you've just given are NOT signs of respect! somedude2: "I want my daughter to marry a lawyer" and "I want my son to grow up to be a lawyer" is the parent wanting a good retirement home from the kids when they get old ^Zippy^: it's respect -because- of money, sure. but there's no reason "respect" should be some kind of noble. UnCauzi: people get jobs for many reasons CreeeD: zippy: ... UnCauzi: Okay folx are going to UT? or wha? CreeeD: zippy: then you misunderstand the meaning of respect. CrewNYC: " your examples you've just given are NOT signs of respect!" you know rich there are different forms of respect nandato: yes superboog: well the need for money is probably the #1 reason to get a job. CreeeD: you respect nobly things. CreeeD: err, noble also. *** nandato is now known as nanUT ^Zippy^: not necessarily. jjcha-mee: you know rsw: respect because someone makes money is a false, stupid reason jjcha-mee: the funny thing is people think lawyers make a lot of money CreeeD: if you respect a guy just for having money, it's really respect for his having worked to make it. CreeeD: it's not respect just for being rich. CreeeD: you generally get no respect for being born into it. jjcha-mee: but most people i know don't consider a couple hundred k a year a lot of money rsw: gosh, coming from a lawyer who makes 120k+ his first year out of college jjcha-mee: o DevilRei: Unless you're GWB jjcha-mee: i'm saying its perspective CrewNYC: FALSE????? what kind of reality do you live in? In the real world the one who can buy the food and by the clothes is given the respect CreeeD: cha: err, what's that prove? baobab: here's a comforting thought for those who fly...the starting salary for an american eagle pilot is $16,800 a year :) jjcha-mee: you don't go into law to get rich jjcha-mee: its really that simple CrewNYC: you can talk all you want but its reality that if you cant afford something what kind of respect will the world give you? jjcha-mee: its a lot of money, pretty safe too jjcha-mee: but for the big bux CreeeD: cha: that shows lawyers have a warped perspective. Anything that's twice as much as you need to live is pretty easily in the category A Lot of Money. jjcha-mee: gotta take the risk and go into business CrewNYC: thats a type of respect rsw: that perspective only comes from people who are oblivious morons whose lives are so far apart from the majority of the poor slobs who have to work ^Zippy^: I'm content with the statement that wealth is a poor reason for respect, but that doesn't get to CrewNYC's point. jjcha-mee: ah maybe it's true jjcha-mee: but considering you go into ibanking and work hard and do fairly well and pull 2-3m a year at age 30 CrewNYC: "majority of the poor slobs who have to work" the majority of poor slobs see most things in $ and cents rsw: i swear to god i will fucking PUNCH IN THE FACE anyone who says to me that making 120k a year isn't that much somedude2: i wanna be a geo when i grow up jjcha-mee: suddenly 300k a year doesn't look so good CrewNYC: think you can get people to do things as favors in the world? baobab: jjcha: 200k a year not a lot of money...that is soo bugios, i can't even put it into words somedude2: and get millions in sock ops CrewNYC: yeesh superboog: baobab: 200k a year is not a lot in the bay area that's one thing. rsw: crew: what? rsw: "majority of the poor slobs who have to work" the majority of poor slobs see most things in $ and cent rsw: way to go captain obvious! CrewNYC: Creed: but lawyers also have huge loans like doctors to pay back rsw: snngghhh baobab: super: it's a lot anywhere jjcha-mee: i mean follow the salary charts of a harvard law grad versus a harvard mba grad and you'll see where the money is CrewNYC: so that warped perscpective is cause they have bills to pay back rsw: or rich parents jjcha-mee: we make more out of school for a couple of years CreeeD: crew: snort. ask jason how much his loan payments are cramping his lifestyle. jjcha-mee: but then mba's skyrocket Mail-Pai: crew, er no rsw: and it's not like they can't pay it back with six months of work baobab: when so much of this world lives in abject poverty, to say 200k isn't much is horrific Mail-Pai: doctors are in debt for 7 yrs! CrewNYC: rsw: it means poor slobs have more respect for people with money than anyone else CrewNYC: they all want a piece of the pie rsw: oh dude jjcha-mee: its just relative Mail-Pai: lawyers make it back b/c they get paid well during their "residency" CrewNYC: real poor slobs dont want to be poor rsw: you're an asshole moron fucktard CrewNYC: they constantly climb to be better and make more money rsw: you're trash CreeeD: crew: student loans for other professions tend to get paid back much, much, much more slowly than the debts doctors and lawyers pay. CrewNYC: why the heck do you think china is OBSSESED with how much money you make CrewNYC: ? *** Mode change "+b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw *** CrewNYC has been kicked off channel #vfhome by rsw (FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING RICH ASSHOLE - YOU HAVE NO GODDAMN CLUE) somedude2: lol baobab: siLE: imma be in school debt for 15 years if i'm lucky rsw: yeh, i'm a 'poor slob' DevilRei: rich strikes again rsw: i reaallly respect andy! superboog: dude i might have to switch professions if i go to grad school. Mail-Pai: poor baobab CreeeD: ow. somedude2: rsw you should charge a fee to unban somedude2: since youre so poor *** Mail-Pai is now known as AVG-Pai somedude2: and sloblike superboog: what does AVG stand for? rsw: should i add you to my list of debtors? AVG-Pai: average CreeeD: well! CreeeD: that was refreshing. DevilRei: I think he'll go to his own little chatroom now superboog: average what? baobab: siLE: you're prolly making a year what i will be when i'm 50...that's far from avg ;) Myke`: a voluptuous girl somedude2: add me, but dont expect to get paid somedude2: i'm poor too jjcha-mee: all i know is that if i really wanted to be rich, i'd drop being a lawyer and either go into ibanking or be one of thoes guys looking for the next big thing.. *CrewNYC* what I said is a real HARSH world fact you cannot accept CreeeD: I think everyone should lawyer for one or two years just for the fuck of it, then "intern" at mcdonald's or burger king for the next five years just to gain a fun perspective on life. jjcha-mee: which i may very well do hehe AVG-Pai: baobab, i'm happy with being middle class . . don't need money. just gimme fudd & games =) *** Mode change "+b *!jjcha-meec@adsl-66-122-48-25.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net" on #vfhome by rsw *** jjcha-mee has been kicked off channel #vfhome by rsw (you already ARE rich.) *CrewNYC* lets see you not have any kindof respect FAKE or real respect for your boss the guy who pays you, even if he is an asshole somedude2: lol AVG-Pai: creed hehe *CrewNYC* you will be forced to respect him if it means paying your bills and eating ghostdog: lol somedude2: but 2x what u need to live isnt rich! baobab: damn rich i was about to say that AVG-Pai: creed my high school fwiend worked at mickey D's the summer b4 he attended yale somedude2: not according to all the friends who also make that much AVG-Pai: guess what job he got for his humbling experience? CreeeD: pai: I'll never guess somedude2: ceo of alladvantage.com? CreeeD: coming out of yale. baobab: somedude: what do you need to make to live? AVG-Pai: creed, he was the designated trash man, scraper of the grills, and pourer of the hot oil . . .he burned himself and scarred his arm that summer baobab: 120k a year is 2x that? baobab: 60k a year is what you need to make AVG-Pai: when it was right b4 fall . .. the guys were like, "what ur going to yale? wtf are U working at mickey D's for =) somedude2: thats good math there AVG-Pai: i'd be happy with 60K =) AVG-Pai: i don't need much somedude2: you should be an accountant AVG-Pai: just enough to live and not having to worry CreeeD: bao: even 40 k a year is arguable strictly speaking about 1 person, no fam. AVG-Pai: for chaj, million dollars as a nest egg isn't a lot . .. superboog: in the bay area you need to like make 60k a year minimum...maybe total household 120k-150k to raise a family baobab: MAN a huge portion of this country would be ecstatic to make that much CreeeD: pai: was there more to the story ?did the dude graduate? what's he do now? vf4guy: i'd be happy with just having a job. :( somedude2: i could live the rest of my life off a mil AVG-Pai: but in his world . .. it is true . . . if u want to make money . business is faster and more effective than being a lawyer/doc somedude2: get a $70k house in georgia and invest ^Zippy^: avg individual income in the US is $57k. AVG-Pai: baobab, gas here is like 1.80! baobab: super: i'm not talking about the bay area AVG-Pai: $1.80 superboog: houses here are like...800k+ Myke`: <^Zippy^> avg individual income in the US is $57k. AVG-Pai: gas in NY is like $1.15 Myke`: is that for real???? baobab: i live in NYC, i have some vague idea what a high cost of living is like ^Zippy^: Myke`: last I'd read. AVG-Pai: to get a house here decent one is over $600K superboog: 57k sounds really high baobab: NYC it's 1.75 Myke`: no way man AVG-Pai: for a same size house in east coast for $150K CreeeD: myke: it's deceptive. bill gates is a US citizen CreeeD: he can afford to give each man, woman, and child in the us 10,000 dollar. superboog: and that's considering that prices have dropped... CreeeD: s. somedude2: lol CreeeD: so guys like gates, presidential candidates, etc.. fuck it up. somedude2: that kinda skews the scale superboog: my mom..she talks about how one of her friends.. vf4guy: in that case you need to find the variance instead of the average. superboog: that put too much into remodeling their house... baobab: siLE: you're telling me i could get a nice place in queens for 150k? *** Mode change "-b *!jjcha-meec@adsl-66-122-48-25.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net" on #vfhome by CreeeD *** Mode change "-b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by CreeeD baobab: that's pretty out there baobab: mid range on STATEN ISLAND is 400k superboog: and because of the jump in value....they have to pay like 2k per month more for their home now.. *jjcha-mee* do i ever act like i make more money and that somehow makes me different or better? AVG-Pai: baobab, nope I'm saying an avg house in queens costs like $600K out here in the bay area somedude2: i thin he means places like georgia somedude2: u can get a nice place for $70k AVG-Pai: cost of living in bay area is way high superboog: paying 2k per month more to live is a friggin lot.. baobab: and it isn't in NYC? somedude2: long island has highest cost of living in country somedude2: and nyc is 3rd AVG-Pai: not really AVG-Pai: long island has the highest mortgage property tax AVG-Pai: but everything else is decently priced somedude2: gee i guess thats not a "cost" AVG-Pai: nyc ughh AVG-Pai: SF ughh *** CrewNYC (CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com) has joined channel #vfhome superboog: well bay area is mostly suburban.... CrewNYC: OHHHHHHHHHHH CrewNYC: unbanned huh AVG-Pai: somedude, it is a cost but people usually think of LI for highest mortgage/property taxes . . . everything else isn't necessarily higher cost CrewNYC: did rich finally settle his mettle superboog: so it's mostly middle-class ppl...but you have to make a lot to be middle-class in the bay area.. baobab: the difference between the rich and the poor in NYC is greater than that of a lot of 3rd world countries CreeeD: crew: nope, he's still feeling irksome. somedude2: nah CrewNYC: never has a truer thing been said CreeeD: I unbanned you. ETP: sweet, i really like UT AVG-Pai: i hear arizona is great =) CrewNYC: thanks baobab: arizona sucks baobab: i lived there for 13 years *** jjcha-mee (jjcha-meec@adsl-66-122-48-25.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) has joined channel #vfhome jjcha-mee: re CrewNYC: the middle of a conversation someone is talking with is the worst point to start trouble ^Zippy^: Myke`: looks like I was way off-base on the $57k, number, though the stats continue to confound. superboog: 57k sounds really high..it just does. superboog: but it is an average right? how about a median? baobab: right here in this channel we had what is commonly referred to as "class warfare" CrewNYC: its still an opinion to say lawyers arent respected CrewNYC: yeesh ^Zippy^: I'm reading median incomes as $37k for men and $27k for women. *** Mode change "-o AVG-Pai" on #vfhome by AVG-Pai ^Zippy^: for full-time workers baobab: zippy that sounds pretty accurate CreeeD: crew: I duno, do you read comics at all? Or joke books or stuff? surely you hear all the lawyer jokes. *** nanUT has left channel #vfhome ^Zippy^: per-capita income is a lot lower, but seems less relevant AVG-Pai doesn't want to play opCwopC warfare AVG-Pai: sorry superboog: pai: what games do u play on the computer? CrewNYC: yeah they make lawyer jokes the same way they make jokes on the president ^Zippy^: I'm guessing that $57k number was household, for full-time workers. baobab: zippy: it also has something to do with where you live in the US AVG-Pai just wants to be avg . . . CrewNYC: but its still only a small group of people who REALLY dont respect lawyers *** Signoff: Moeb`afk (Connection reset by peer) *jjcha-mee* just tired of being so antagonistic, so i lost it baobab pat pats siLE superboog: pai: no u don't want to be average! CrewNYC: for the most part people have respect for nearly every profession ^Zippy^: baobab: naturally, but I was shooting for the US avg. *** nanUT (nandato@227.new-york-02rh15rt-ny.dial-access.att.net) has joined channel #vfhome *** Mode change "+o nanUT" on #vfhome by AwayEug AVG-Pai: superboog, used to play WC2, SC/BW, PF, sometimes VF2 if the guys didnt make fun of me =) *** Moeb`afk (x@proxy2.via.com.tw) has joined channel #VFHOME AVG-Pai: 11th hr, C&C, baobab: zippy: that is a false thing to go by though... CrewNYC: I mean REAL disrespect and a kind of disdain for lawyers is biggg difference AVG-Pai: there's also people who don't respect sales people superboog: pai: hmm..i played all blizzard games, fps games, beatmania.... ^Zippy^: this is what I'm reading right now: http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/p60-213.pdf AVG-Pai: who dya hate more? doctors, lawyers, or salespersons? AVG-Pai: sales people i mean? AVG-Pai: people also don't like business people AVG-Pai: superboog, ooh akira loves beatmania . . . u should play him superboog: how good is he? i'm just an improving player. CrewNYC: you know the biggest reason why I think parents like doctors and lawyers is because of the education needed to become the two CrewNYC: I think parents respect higher education AVG-Pai: superboog pretty damn good . . . he has every friggin' beatmania in his haus superboog: on the ps2? nanUT: yo unc! CrewNYC: if it was the money then all they respect is the dollars CreeeD: crew: no, they just want their children not to live in the gutters CrewNYC: and thats not accurate ar all nanUT: its d/ling again CreeeD: although doctor is a noble profession. AVG-Pai: crew, i just thought it was financial stability thru education CrewNYC: well education doesnt always lead to that superboog: any profession where you have to help ppl i would respect.. DevilRei: Indeed DevilRei: docotrs save lives CrewNYC: many english majors etc can tell you that :) DevilRei: lawyers screw people. superboog: even if lawyers are trying to get a rapist out of jail... baobab: unless you start in an 'elite' position in society, the chances of become 'elite' are slim CrewNYC: they can save you too :) *** Bu_Jasoom (Ayshay@clt25-107-214.carolina.rr.com) has joined channel #vfhome superboog: i think it's the fact that you have to do a lot of interaction and communication makes it respected CrewNYC: nelson less than 2% nanUT: yo unc! nanUT: its d/ling again AVG-Pai: crew: asian formula for success involves good grades, good college, good job, good family, financial stability = success = happiness . . . however try convincing them success should not be equated with happiness is a hard sell somemtimes superboog: if anything, i think teachers (at least the competent ones) should get paid more.. baobab: the 'elite' in society don't want to share...then they wouldn't be 'elite' Myke` is gone. Away after 10 minutes of inactivity [Since: 04/19/02 17:09:04 EET] CrewNYC: yes I tried to empasize that earlier AVG-Pai: superboog, everybody's purpose in life is helping people in some form or another CrewNYC: almost all asian cultures have a respect for success CreeeD: crew: lawyers can save you, yes, but the real money is in defending corporations, which 9/10 times are fucking you, and deserve to get slapped . But their wall of lawyers keeps them from having to take responsibility. CrewNYC: the person can be a screwy person CreeeD: a few defense lawyers become famous and make zillions, but most of them aren't making that level of cash AVG-Pai: superboog, its culture CrewNYC: but the parents may still like them because they are successful CreeeD: certainly public defenders. superboog: pai: i find that in the asian formula...sometimes happiness is lost b/c the parents tend to try waay to hard to make sure their kids stick to the formula. AVG-Pai: in asia, teachers are highly respected AVG-Pai: in germany, mechanics are respected for the quality of their work baobab: and thier wall of lawyers rewriting the justice system to quell resistance CrewNYC: Creed: I dont disagree with that the big money is in corporate law SummAh: in asia..lotsa teachers teach because they want a job CreeeD: crew: yes but successful doesn't = good. No teacher is successful (as pai just sort of pointed out) but they're much, much more worth your respect. SummAh: not because they feel a need to impart knowledge to the next generation superboog: well in asia...education is really highly valued. CreeeD: but who wants your kid to live with someone who makes 45k a year? AVG-Pai: in the states respect is a bit superficial from degrees and the end result of how much u make or status position CrewNYC: but the majority of lawyers arent in corp. most just become civil lawyers superboog: so teachers are respected. nanUT: yo unc! SummAh: i certainly do not respect the teachers I've had in asia nanUT: its d/ling again AVG-Pai: superboog, I agree =) nanUT: grr i give up Yakiniku: I thought the salaryman midnight vomiting was well respected in Japan? Hehe CrewNYC: Creed: I agree with that too AVG-Pai did not grow up a happy camper superboog: hey i respect all the teachers i have had...i've had great teachers all throughout my education...something that's not true in like 95% of the country CreeeD: crew: they're still the butt of all the jokes because the profession is considered sleazy. How many teacher jokes do you hear? CrewNYC: there is only a type of respect given to success nanUT: someone tell unc, its d/ling the map SummAh: i respect the teachers I've had here SummAh: not the ones back home baobab: what is success? AVG-Pai: creed, try telling my parents . . . my parents did not want me to be a high school teacher even though I wanted to try to be one rsw: 48 user rsw: fuck CrewNYC: I would never give the highest respect to like an accountant, doctor, or lawyer SummAh: I wouldn't call those teachers back there 'teaching' superboog: is anyone here an econ major? SummAh: more like 'talking at me' CrewNYC: I would actually say police, social worker etc CrewNYC: people who volunteer their lives for little financial stability CreeeD: crew: my argument isn't really that all lawyers are shit, just that it's oblivious to think that lawyers are generally a respected profession. If you took a poll half the country would have something bad to say about them. SummAh: ask a question n they'll call u stupid..what kind of teacher is that? CrewNYC: and give back to the community they live in *** Bu_Jasoom has left channel #vfhome rsw: yeh, and we all know how respected cops are, and how all parents want their children to marry cops ^Zippy^: heh, respect the police. how tempting. SummAh: gah cops baobab: and why do those kind of people make so little andy? AVG-Pai: i say it all depends on ur experience AVG-Pai: if u have a good lawyer, accountant, doctor, u love them CreeeD: crew: yeah bad example. Cops also get a lot of shit, although I personally respect them. CrewNYC: Creed: I dunno about half, but again disrespect and disdain are big differences DevilRei: I respect social workers a lot, cops not so much AVG-Pai: if u have a bad experience, you hate them baobab: average lifespan of a police officer in the us 47 jjcha-mee: andy most private big law lawyers working for law firms do corporate work, who do you think the clients are? CrewNYC: you can not really like some things about them but to go as far as saying you disrespected that profession CrewNYC: I would say is a very small percent of the country DevilRei: I have freiends here at school who do some absolutely amazing social work, things I would never have the patience or devotion to do, and for that they have my respect AVG-Pai: if you don't have an experience with them u go with consensus of population based upon media, culture, stereotypes *** Signoff: UnCauzi () superboog: cops ..... well i think they don't get enuff respect...and maybe that's why some of them turn bad. ^Zippy^: baobab: they'd live longer if they didn't pull my violent, sawed-off wielding ass over. Yakiniku: I respect them. because they take of all the shit work that nobody else wants to do. CreeeD: crew: your mileage may have varied, but I can think of one or two lawyers who have genuinely made me feel disgust. That's just that I know. superboog: you wouldn't want to be a cop in the first place if you weren't a good person in the first place ^Zippy^: superboog: say what? AVG-Pai: i respect people . .. not necessarily professions CrewNYC: jason, yeah but numnerically I dont think corp lawyers outnumber civil ones superboog: i just think cops get pissed at society or something over the years...i dunno..just a random hypothesis. baobab: there are assholes in every profession DevilRei: yakiniku sounds tasty AVG-Pai: nor generalized populations jjcha-mee: what are civil lawyers though? CrewNYC: Creed: yeah I think its a personal thing jjcha-mee: i don't understand the term ^Zippy^: superboog: the chance to wield physical force in the name of higher authority, and a guaranteed job with minimal education, and you think no scum would be drawn to it superboog: are their assholes in the engineering profession? SummAh: LOL SummAh: my god! jjcha-mee: are you distinguishing between lawyers who work in corporation versus those that are i nprivate practice? CrewNYC: Jason: personal injury, criminal law, personal tax law etc... Yakiniku: Devil>indeed! Goin to Chi-town to get some next weekend! CrewNYC: family stuff superboog: zippy: that's a good point. baobab: super: what kind of engineer? SummAh: I just discovered my cousin's credited in redcharrsigned Akira FAQ jjcha-mee: i dunno what the numbers are, but i'd imagine the majority of lawyers are business/corporate lawyers superboog: any... DevilRei: Zippy has obviously never been to Latin America DevilRei: Yaki, where ye at? Yakiniku: St. Louis. jjcha-mee: or at least the vast majority of the ones making top dollar.. i don't think private individuals can afford $225 an hour for just a rookie like me AVG-Pai: crew, we live in a financial world . . . CrewNYC: Jason really? I would think most are in smaller to mid size firms, and only the best in corp. DevilRei: didn't know STL has Chinatown ^^; CreeeD: crew: corporations are BIG. Where firms based on personal injury or tax law might be based one a handful of partners and a few juniors, corporations hire a FLEET of lawyers for each area of operations *** xnij11 (rrg@pool0019.cvx23-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net) has joined channel #vfhome superboog: i think most engineers have to be pretty noble.. ^Zippy^: I'm fairly sure no amount of world travel would make me stop hating cops. CrewNYC: jason: yes top dollar, but I dont think most make top dollar which is why most lawyers dont work for big corps Yakiniku: It's in a west county, olive street. superboog: i mean the only thing an engineer can be bad in is by being sloppy... CrewNYC: only a small number CreeeD: zippy: how about when a guy puts a gun to your face, and a cop stops him from shooting you? jjcha-mee: i dunno, maybe numerically, but were you really talking about the lawyer who drafts wills or handles divorces or small time criminal defense work? ^Zippy^: CreeeD: he'll be drowned out by the thousands of his peers waiting to pull over housewives doing 10 mph over the speed limit jjcha-mee: i mean would yur parents want your sister to marry a lawyer like that? superboog: jcha: i agree with you in that i think a typical lawyer is one of the business/corporate area AVG-Pai: anybody know what VPN connectivity is? superboog: i mean you go to like the website of law firms...look at the categories.. baobab: zippy: state needs to make it's money somehow superboog: virtual private connection! CrewNYC: well thats the majority of them out there, when I think of a lawyer I dont always think of MS Anit trust lawyers or somethingk, I think criminal court and defenders of crimes CreeeD: zippy: I think it's easy to fall into the "I hate cops" mentality when you get nailed with a handful of speeding tickets or one busts you for an ounce of pot. jjcha-mee: i doubt any asian parent would want their son to grow up to be anything other than a corporate lawyer superboog: perhaps thye need a totally new word to describe defense attornies and such CrewNYC: hehehehhee CrewNYC: you wanna know something CrewNYC: I dount many would understand dodee: ...was that a joke? CrewNYC: all they hear is "LAWYER" CrewNYC: :) CreeeD: AVGpai: like boog said. Ability to fool with yuor computer remotely rsw: what i banned andy for was his statement that working people (should) respect people who make more money than they do..only because they make more money than they do CrewNYC: although i'll take your word for it that corp. law is where the money is AVG-Pai: crew, my grandparents don't even know what a lawyer is . . they just hear harvard . . LAW . . . *ahhhh*** CrewNYC: I never used working people rivh superboog: i have never used VPN...don't even know how it works. rsw: now, andy, if you went around the country and asked blue/white collar workers if they do, and that they should respect their bosses because their bosses make more money than they, i can guarantee you that you would be fucking lynched and set on fire before you interviewed 200 workers Yakiniku: jjcha-mee>I think most of the asian traditional arts are dying and I think the parents would like to see their kids maybe continue that. One example is the art of sword making. AVG-Pai: thanks sperboog AVG-Pai: creed, sigh stupat VA won't let my customer use VPN lbeh CrewNYC: I guess you interpretend something I said, I NEVER said SHOULD respect, I said have a type of respect jjcha-mee: kalbi that has to be the most inane random statement i've ever seen dodee: this conversation is uhm...dumb. CreeeD: pai: VA? CrewNYC: an employee has to respect a boss to work for them nanUT: indeed CrewNYC: no matters about the money dodee: no they dont rsw: crew, what sort of fucked up world do you come from?!@ superboog: ppl, do i have a future as a electrical/software engineer? should i just go into law or business in grad school or what? AVG-Pai: veterans affairs medical center dodee: you have to ACT like you do dodee: you dont have to real CreeeD: pai: to use VPN you just need an app running on your PC, then you can access your own PC through the web and control it. dodee: +ly CrewNYC: boss would end up firing the employee if they showed no respect to them kil: Creed:where can i get that na'ls vf4 dvd? CreeeD: pai: but the problem is, for that to work, you need a constant connection whose IP address doesn't change CreeeD: if it changes, you can't find your PC baobab: crew: i don't think i've ever repected a boss of mine AVG-Pai: creed, what if the organization has a firewall and doesn't allow holes in their network? superboog: pai: there are better things than vpn than that. CreeeD: kil: search VFDC media forum dodee: acting like you have respect and actually having it are apples and oranges CrewNYC: I mean it may be a fake respect but its still professional and shown to the boss rsw: andy, it's called "SHOWING" superboog: creeed: do u mean VNC rather than VPN? kil: ok rsw: which does NOT mean GENUINE CrewNYC: you would never spit on your boss or embarass him CrewNYC: yeah but exactly rich its a type of respect AVG-Pai: superboog such as? CrewNYC: I already said its not always real CrewNYC: but its shown respect CreeeD: pai: then they're screwed, no VPN ... or at least, you need to be smart enough to know how to work around it. CreeeD: pai: which is not something they'll teach CrewNYC: chinese say Giving face to someone superboog: i think creeed might be confusing VPN for VNC. rsw: andy you fucktard. if it's fake, it's not real. it's not respect. it's false. it's not respect. CreeeD: boog : VNC is a tool for VPN superboog: VNC is a program developed by At&t labs.. CreeeD: crew: that's not respect, that's fear. baobab: siLE: what are you doing with the VA? CreeeD: fear of retaliation for telling the boss what you really think of them. CrewNYC: you dont think fear is a kind of respect? CreeeD: fear of being fired. dodee: no rsw: asshole CreeeD: crew: no, I make the distinction. *** Signoff: xnij11 (ircN 7.25 + 7.0 for mIRC (2000/09/06 22.00)) dodee: fear and respect are different animals ^Zippy^: VNC a tool for VPN? the deuce you say. the only relation is that they're both involved in networking. rsw: soon you'll say any sort of emotion is respect CreeeD: "OH SHIT, OJ SIMPSON'S COMING AT ME WITH A KNIFE! I'M FLOODED WITH RESPECT!" superboog: i worked on it for a private company during my internships the last two summers.. jjcha-mee: andy, sometimes you're too chinese even for me AVG-Pai: baobab, i have a customer who needs to connect remotely to the VA to get a license from the key server . . . but the VA is a gov't agency with strict ruels for no VPN remote connectivity CrewNYC: okay like I said some people in some areas of the world have a type of respect for their bosses dodee: didn't gengis kahn or someone else famous/mean say "i'd rather be feared than respected" ? CrewNYC: not always out of fear too CrewNYC: its like a boss worked hard to get where he is superboog: pai: if it's just windows machines... CrewNYC: so they have respect for them jjcha-mee: steve you're thinking machiavelli w/r/t fear versus love superboog: you can use ..... argh i forgot what it was called! baobab: siLE: i'll bet, lotsa sensitive medical records CreeeD: zippy: my impression is that VPN is being able to remotely administer chores when you're away from your PC. VNC lets you do that. CreeeD: but I'm busy arguing elsewhere. CreeeD: so fuck it, you win. rsw: "a violent fear of being anally violated with a barbed dildo by your boss in the kiddie porn industry" = respect dodee: jason: yes CrewNYC: this is not something you can say im right or you are right AVG-Pai: superboog, sigh they use macs dodee: VPN = virtual private network rsw: fuck you. i am saying it. AVG-Pai: baobab, no sensitivve records involved in research but IS hates macs AVG-Pai: IS/IT hates supporting macs =( jjcha-mee: andy, i realize your parents probably taught you that if you work hard and are successful that is a good thing, but quite frankly, they lied dodee: faking actually being on a intranet rsw: and an overwhelming majority would agree with me CrewNYC: hehe rsw then you are saying your opinon is the one of the world CreeeD: dodee :there's another that went like you said, but I can't remember it. baobab: siLE: DAVE is your best friend CrewNYC: congratulations superboog: well i know Win2k server and XP have desktop controlling features and such. superboog: forgot the names. ^Zippy^: VPN refers to creating trusted connections over the internet so remote PCs can behave like they're on the LAN. as dodee typed more succintly than I. AVG-Pai: andy, happiness is more important and they forget that . . . CrewNYC: like I said most asian cultures would agree with you on most CrewNYC: wouldn't that is AVG-Pai: baobab, dave? dodee: remote administration and vpn are vaguely related, but not really superboog: in VNC you actually control the computer... CrewNYC: AVG pai yeah I know its sad rsw: no, i'm simply saying that your opinion is based on shit. it's about as sturdy as a house made of cowpies CreeeD: close enough, bleah superboog: like a back-orifice or whatever =P...what a sick name AVG-Pai: zippy exactly! baobab: it's a program to allow macs to function on PC networks CrewNYC: and yours is based on what? CrewNYC: CUMSHOTS? rsw: reality CreeeD: experience, common knowledge? rsw: knowedle rsw: understanding, being there *** UnCgone (ducvader@adsl-83-156-245.mco.bellsouth.net) has joined channel #vfhome CrewNYC: creed: yes rich elminated the entire asian cultire in his one opinon of HOW IT IS UnCgone: ? rsw: whereas yours is based on bullshit, vague, twisted reasoning CrewNYC: BY THE MAJORITY TOO rsw: asshole AVG-Pai: ne needs to connect in thru firewall to network to access keyseerver but stupat VA won't let him connect via VPN CreeeD: rich's opinion, about lawyers being not respected.. that part is really, really common knowledge crew CrewNYC: yeah sure dodee: I think if you asked most people that work in the US if they respect their boss (for any reason) they'd say no rsw: when did i ever mention china? CreeeD: I'm surprised you haven't heard it. dodee: but they all act like they do dodee: you aren't IN china rsw: i have, and have always been talking about this country rsw: you fucking retard. CrewNYC: creed: again, not respected and disdain are big differences CrewNYC: you said it yourself AVG-Pai: baobab, so how does this DAVE program work? AVG-Pai: info? UnCgone: 65.83.156.245:7777 CrewNYC: depends on your experience UnCgone: nan, etp UnCgone: gogogo nanUT: yo CreeeD: crew: but your argument was orginally that it was a respected profession nanUT: ok superboog: avg-pai: contact the company i worked for =P... baobab: dunno, not sure it'll help in this situation...run a search on it. CreeeD: I dunno where this disdain thing came in. CrewNYC: I think if you asked most people that work in the US if they respect their boss (for any reason) they'd say no CrewNYC: thats the bigesst wrong opinion ive ever seen CreeeD: that's also true, and common knowledge. CrewNYC: your saying most bosses?? CreeeD: crew, come on dude CreeeD: MOST yes dodee: absolutely kil: Creed:do u know what tha name of tha post is? CrewNYC: most as in over half in the country aren;t liked? CreeeD: think of how many shitty jobs there are dodee: by a total landslide dodee: andy, have you ever had a JOB JOB ? CrewNYC: how could more than HALF the country not like their bosses *** Signoff: UnCgone () nanUT: yo unc, where do i put new skins in? dodee: like get up early, wear the clothes they tell you to, etc? CreeeD: crew: because they have a shitty job, and the bosses make them do it. CrewNYC: plenty of surveys have been given in the country about bosses DevilRei: How could over half the country LIKE their bosses? CrewNYC: many are liked superboog: dude i like my boss. CreeeD: millions of fast food employees CrewNYC: just a small few BAD ass bosses spoil the feeling CreeeD: lowest level bankers/civil servants CrewNYC: like adam elise, me have held two/three jobs dodee: I've had 4 bosses, hated 3. CreeeD: garbagemen, janitors, irs, dmv ghostdog: kil:it was a recent post in the media forum CrewNYC: we liked our bosses for the main part superboog: he's also a professor at stanford...maybe he'll help me in my education plans. rsw: crew, tell us your jobs. what, exactly you've done, and how much you've made. CrewNYC: and maybe once and a while had tifs kil: ok thanx CrewNYC: I was a supermarket check out clerk dodee: the average income in the us is what $8/hour ? CrewNYC: first job two years CrewNYC: High school CrewNYC: $4.70 an hour *** UnCgone (ducvader@adsl-83-156-245.mco.bellsouth.net) has joined channel #vfhome CreeeD: so that boss was okay to you right? UnCgone: sal? CrewNYC: then I worked secretrial at AG something UnCgone: u coming? CrewNYC: one year or so UnCgone: or are u dling again CrewNYC: about $12 an hour UnCgone: argh CrewNYC: on and in Umass I worked at the campus computer store CrewNYC: Amherst CrewNYC: about $6 an hour nanUT: yo! CrewNYC: sales and Computer support dodee: and you actually liked all those bosses? CreeeD: ok, so you've had some pretty cool jobs. 12 bucks is a cool job. Computers is a cool job. CrewNYC: I liked supermarket one and the Umass one CrewNYC: they were fine CreeeD: checkout isn't, but. *** Mode change "+o Moeb`afk" on #vfhome by dodee UnCgone: sal u coming? CrewNYC: I never had a big problem with them AVG-Pai: what is the difference in security using dial-up and VPN? dodee: but you didnt' like the other one? CrewNYC: nope, too high paced nanUT: yes! AVG-Pai: such that they won't allow VPN but allow remote access via dialup? CrewNYC: that was the only problem CrewNYC: boss was stressed CrewNYC: I could see that CrewNYC: it made me stressed CrewNYC: so I quit it dodee: that's 1/3 and you say that 1/2 is outlandish CrewNYC: but CrewNYC: I liked my last rsw: you disrespectful cocksucker. CrewNYC: which was my fourth rsw: how dare you dishonor your boss. dodee: people generally dislike their boss, sorry CrewNYC: where I worked for a design company CreeeD: well, 1/4 is a good track record but I don't think it's indicative of the usual dude. dodee: that's the cliche boss character. where do you think that came from? CrewNYC: well I dunno CreeeD: dilbert. *** nanUT has left channel #vfhome CrewNYC: ask that to AD, Elise CrewNYC: um nelson CrewNYC: rodney CrewNYC: etc etc superboog: dialup: easy as hell to trace. CreeeD: cliche boss = can't find his own ass, spiteful, loves to fire ppl.. CrewNYC: most bosses arent slave drivers CrewNYC: they want people to be happy dodee: I wish I lived in andyland CreeeD: they don't want ppl to be happy. CrewNYC: bosses become bosses for a reason CreeeD: they want to make more money. CrewNYC: I dunno creed move to NYC rsw: wouldn't we all love to live in andyland CreeeD: they want to make more money, and they want their shift to run smoothly and without anyone yelling at them or pointing fingers. dodee: I could walk into frigging bugerking and be the "boss" all bosses dont have to EARN anything CrewNYC: they are also promoted for being good at what they do and most bosses are only middle managers for white collar workers rsw: free money..blissful ignorance... baobab: at MTV lori is under constant threat of having her job terminated at a moments notice CrewNYC: they have emphasize a good working environment jjcha-mee: dude rsw: did i see him just contradict himself? CrewNYC: eben at McDonalds notorious for high overturn CreeeD: this is what a boss SHOULD do andy, not what they REALLY do. dodee: why do you think they have that overturn? CrewNYC: I was just gonna say that dodee: cause everyone loves working for mcds? CreeeD: what they REALLY do is either be totalitarian about the regulations, makign the environment tense and shitty, but problem free as long as the workers keep quiet UnCgone: bah i have a feeling sal superboog: how many ppl want to keep working at mickey d's? CreeeD: or they look the other way constantly so they can be liked by the employees. UnCgone: didn't look at the new ip UnCgone: kablah CreeeD: very very few find the correct in-between. dodee: I'm not saying it's RATIONAL or even has a logical basis, but most people dont like their boss for one reason or another CrewNYC: mcdonalds franchise sells the fact that they have one of the highest level of employee satisfaction in fast food, people leave cause of the low wages but the work is not hard dodee: let alone straight up respect them CreeeD: some just out of resentment for the extra money they make. It's like your "cash = instant respect" theory in reverse. Cash can also equal instant disrespect. CrewNYC: creed it can dodee: and does superboog: it just jealousy.. CreeeD: crew: laff, that's corporate propaganda bullshit CrewNYC: I dont disagree with that rsw: ..highest level of employee satisfaction. CrewNYC: depends what job CreeeD: NOBODY ad mcdonalds likes their job dude CreeeD: go work there baobab: cleaning the fryalator at mcd's is a joy... rsw: - in fast food. dodee: hah CreeeD: all they do is bitch and gossip. superboog: jealousy is just a feeling you can't fight against CrewNYC: I had a few friends work there rsw: which would probably be, what..%7 rsw: ? kil: Creed:is there gonna be a nat'l vf4 tourney 4 tha US? CreeeD: dude, I work fast food. It' CreeeD: s shitty. dodee: I knew two people that worked at bk, and they've vowed never even to eat there again CrewNYC: ? dodee: that's how much they liked it CreeeD: kil: not likely, not yet *** Signoff: lilbich () kil: ok DevilRei: I can ask some people at E3 about it CreeeD: crew: it's horrible wages, it IS hard work in some cases, full of heavy lifting and dealing with grease and raw meat and other shit you'd rather not touch, it's constantly getting burned and cut, it's taking shit from your boss and swallowing it even though he's less educated than you by far, it's a shitty job. kil: thanx rei CreeeD: it's inevitable that with a shitty job, some of that resentment spills over CrewNYC: you know the view of yourself dodee, rich and creed almost always sounds like the world is generally unhappy most of the time dodee: the boss can be a joy, and conditions make you not like him CreeeD: and if that's typical of fast food, think of how many fast food franchises there are, and think that each employs 30 - 50 ppl CrewNYC: where I would thikn people are happy most of the time in life dodee: I worked retail, same thing CreeeD: you cna see where half the nation hates their boss. kil: me 2 dodee: some fool makes more money than you for no real reason CreeeD: crew: it's a funny coincidence isn't it? dodee: that's bound to start resentment superboog: ppl are only happy when they aren't thinking...like when they are lost in trance while playing beatmania CrewNYC: thats the basis of common sense why would you work for someone if you were unhappy change jobs if you can then, the boss would fire you soon enough if you did a bad job anyway, shown respect or not CreeeD: rich and dodee being unemployed, me being barely employed *** Mode change "+b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw *** CrewNYC has been kicked off channel #vfhome by rsw ( you know the view of yourself dodee, rich and creed almost always sounds like the world is generally unhappy m) rsw: oops. CreeeD: oops! *CrewNYC* this time I dont mind dodee: "if you dont like it, just quit!" rsw: ended with..."news flash! IT IS!" dodee: sigh. CreeeD: yeah *CrewNYC* its absolutly true CreeeD: "there's ALWAYS another source of income to fall back on, right? right!?" dodee: most people cant just up and quit their job... ghostdog: LOL baobab: i don't think he understands at all... dodee: worst case scenario is live off your mom's money! baobab: must be nice not to have to worry about that stuff *** Mode change "+o AVG-Pai" on #vfhome by dodee dodee: unban him, i wanna explain the everyone cant just quit thing DevilRei: imgine having this same conversation with Jeff. *** Signoff: toohectic () DevilRei: I can only imagine the rage. dodee: rei: might as well be CreeeD: dodee: I couldn't resist msging it. dodee: jeff and andy are birds of a feather *** Three-11 (grassroots@lsanca1-ar6-4-63-234-087.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net) has joined channel #vfhome DevilRei: butt buddies? dodee: andy cant figure out why anyone would not like jeff *** Mode change "-b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw jjcha-mee: i'm serious there's a chinese thing to it dodee: yeah, his fear=respect thing is mad oldschool CreeeD: heh, crew asks "where did everyone get this freaking impression I'm rich?!" dodee: gee, maybe the 4' jade boat in his livingroom rsw: what filth dodee: you know, the room right off the indoor pool dodee: that one baobab: dunno...maybe because he just bought an apartment on 51st st in manhatten *** CrewNYC (CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com) has joined channel #vfhome dodee: so anyway! dodee: but yeah andy, the dodee: oop rsw: dodee: jeff and andy are birds of a feather rsw: *** Three-11 (grassroots@lsanca1-ar6-4-63-234-087.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net) has joined channel #vfhome rsw: DevilRei: butt buddies? rsw: dodee: andy cant figure out why anyone would not like jeff rsw: *** Mode change "-b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw rsw: jjcha-mee: i'm serious there's a chinese thing to it rsw: dodee: yeah, his fear=respect thing is mad oldschool rsw: CreeeD: heh, crew asks "where did everyone get this freaking impression I'm rich?!" rsw: dodee: gee, maybe the 4' jade boat in his livingroom rsw: rsw: what filth rsw: dodee: you know, the room right off the indoor pool rsw: dodee: that one rsw: baobab: dunno...maybe because he just bought an apartment on 51st st in manhatten rsw: oops. dodee: but yeah andy, the "if you dont like it quit" thing doesn't work in real life *dodee* thanks! rsw: me and my butterfingers! DevilRei: yay sleep *** Signoff: DevilRei (shinjitsu wo shiru ni ha....) CrewNYC: um that apartment on 51st has been handed down for over a decade in my family CrewNYC: yes I own it CrewNYC: but I live there cause I couldnt afford to live downtown CrewNYC: where I was forced to leave CrewNYC: cause I didnt pay the rent for three months rsw lol's for real. jjcha-mee: andy i don't think this line of reasoning is going to elicit any sympathy CrewNYC: no CrewNYC: its just what happended CrewNYC: not for sympathy *** Signoff: UnCgone () dodee: andy, your logic is severely influnced by affluence dodee: you know that baobab: you said you just bought it when i asked you.... CrewNYC: ahh nelson, I didnt want to delve into the whle story CrewNYC: adam and such know these things baobab: fair enough CreeeD: anyway, that shows our point crew CrewNYC: but I dont really spread something like I had to move in here cause I couldn't find a cheaper place CreeeD: you couldn't afford to live where you do CreeeD: but you have a free backup from... whoever, parents CreeeD: whereas if I can't pay this rent for two or three months, I am literally homeless. *** MoebiusNu (x@proxy2.via.com.tw) has joined channel #VFHOME *** Signoff: Moeb`afk (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) dodee: moeb. rsw: but as long as you respect your boss, you'll be a-ok! *** Mode change "+o MoebiusNu" on #vfhome by dodee dodee: to get back to the original line of discussion: CrewNYC: I dunno creed alot of people may be in similat situations like yourself dodee: thats the basis of common sense why would you work for someone if you were unhappy change jobs if you can then, the boss would fire you soon enough if you did a bad job anyway, shown respect or not dodee: that's not even remotely realistic rsw: crew you fucktard - "creed alot of people may be in similat situations like yourself" rsw: MOST PEOPLE ARE CrewNYC: because of it some may really hold alot of value to money and success equating some kind of respect rsw: jeSUS! dodee: most people have rent, credit card debt, school loans, car payments, etc CrewNYC: thats why many asian people think this way dodee: you can just up and quit cause your boss makes your life rough CrewNYC: its not how I would *** MoebiusNu is now known as Moeb`afk CrewNYC: dodee yes I know CreeeD: the original topic was about respect, and if we're bringing asian into it, ... well, the stereotype is that asians are careful to show/have respect, while americans are not CrewNYC: the point I take it is that most people try to make the best of what hey have rsw: i think he meant "can't" CreeeD: and our population is not asian. rsw: not "can up and quit" dodee: yes, cant dodee: my bad CrewNYC: creed yeah *** Signoff: Myke` (Time wasted: 5 hours 54 minutes 46 seconds) SummAh: i was wondering abt that kekekke CrewNYC: the whole thing is that only some people CrewNYC: I never said all CreeeD: crew: you said most CrewNYC: Im much more careful about being "a matter of fact" CreeeD: more than half respect their boss, most think lawyers are ok, etc. dodee: the understanding is the culture you're currently operating in CrewNYC: well thats my opinon yes CrewNYC: about bosses dodee: you can just bust out "...in china" at the end CrewNYC: dodee the china thing came out a long time ago CrewNYC: before the boss thing CreeeD: crew: I think your opinion is skewed by A: being asian and B: having a money cushion to fall back on. rsw: for the last fucking time, andy - we're in the US. and we are discussing the US POV. *** nanUT (nandato@227.new-york-02rh15rt-ny.dial-access.att.net) has joined channel #vfhome *** Mode change "+o nanUT" on #vfhome by AwayEug CrewNYC: well chain makes up what 30-40% of the whole world or something? CrewNYC: and they are severly messed up in their thinking of western success nanUT: man u guys still talking bout this? CreeeD: crew: eheh, no, but we're talking about USA anyway dodee: yeah, but most chinese dont have "bosses" they have farms nanUT: just say...fuck the world! rsw: what the asian view is is totally irrelevant. you might as well say what the pygmy's in africa think nanUT: and play jjcha-mee: i don't think most people in china like their bosses anyway SummAh: andy's asian? rsw: crew, wipe the sperm out of your eyes again and red dodee: summah: kinda. =) rsw: we're in the US. and we are discussing the US POV. rsw: we're not IN china. SummAh: i thought he was uhmm..chinese american :P kil: nope *** nanUT has left channel #vfhome CrewNYC: only reason I brought china up was rich's point that "all people something something..." dodee: I'd go so far as to say more than 50% of the population of the whole world that has a boss doesn't respect him/her rsw: uh huh. sure. CrewNYC: well like I said to creed dodee CrewNYC: a BIG part depends on your presonal experience CrewNYC: and neither of us can prove such a point CrewNYC: BUT rsw: and we all know that your own personal experience is representative of the majority of all people of the world rsw: we should only be so lucky CrewNYC: you, rich and creed can all draw for your exeriences dodee: I dunno andy CrewNYC: but you should say opinion then CrewNYC: not as a matter of fact dodee: I think matt, rich and myself have probably had a more average upbringing than you have CreeeD: well, to be fair, being whiteys in the US isn't all that indicative of the rest of the world' experience either CreeeD: but we weren't talking about the world, just the us. baobab: crew the majority of the world lives in poverty rsw: if our experience parallel the majority of other people, and are based in reality and not theory, then our opinions have much more weight and validity than yours dodee: most people dont grow up in nicer parts of long island to a at the very least comfortable family financially baobab: that is a fact CrewNYC: and thats something that was never said CrewNYC: if this whle thing was whitey white collar USA history CrewNYC: then it'd be fine rsw: snort *** nanUT (nandato@227.new-york-02rh15rt-ny.dial-access.att.net) has joined channel #vfhome CrewNYC: but alot of people in the # were talking coming from asian backgrounds etc. *** Mode change "+o nanUT" on #vfhome by AwayEug dodee: I'm sticking to the world dodee: cause most of the world is poor CrewNYC: its skwed then dodee: screw just the US, the whole damn thing rsw: now he's using his 6th dan distraction and wishy-washiness techniques! beware! CrewNYC: you cant speak for thw world dodee ETP: nanUT: is the ip going to be changed? dodee: its logical andy dodee: most of the world is poor *** Signoff: JackeyGo () nanUT: i think so baobab: what is it like 5% of the population controls 95% of the wealth...something like that CrewNYC: if you8 say you want to speak from experience CreeeD: crew: but we're not discussing perception, like "how might asians think of things"... just facts. It's a FACT that most americans don't like their boss or respect lawyers, as in more than half. That's the argument. CrewNYC: you cant say next you are speaking for the world dodee: so the ones that DO have bosses are bound to at the very least be jealous that they dont ahve the same income CrewNYC: you can at most speak for a portion of the USA ETP: nanUT: do we wait till unc comes back here an tells us? CrewNYC: that you can relate to nanUT: i guess so CrewNYC: you cant just up and relate some poor mexican nanUT: u have a good ping etp CrewNYC: or poor china person dodee: 50.00000001% of the world that has bosses not liking them is far from outlandish ETP: nanUT: uncauzi is a little bit insanely good dont you think? CreeeD: sal, did you like your boss at your last job or two? nanUT: yes nanUT: brb nanUT: ETP, come back CreeeD: aaah well, you got canned anyway, fuck it. CreeeD: :p nanUT: we playing ETP: what ip? nanUT: same ip ETP: k baobab: some poor mexican that shows up for work in a sweatshop at 4am to make $1.50 a day making some baubel *** nanUT has left channel #vfhome rsw: sure we can. even if it's only a little bit, then creed and i have still far more to relate to a mexican illegal than you EVER WILL, you spoiled deluded fuck *** Signoff: Three-11 (www.fighters.net) jjcha-mee: oh god jjcha-mee: deniz posted another moveslist errata dodee: the bluecollar worker/sweatshop worker is the majority jjcha-mee: oh nice and the first point he makes is wrong CrewNYC: thats so far fetched its terrible you said that CrewNYC: how do you think the mexican would feel? CrewNYC: sheesh, like you tell me rich, dont speak for someone else *** Signoff: Moeb`afk (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) rsw: what, that myself and creed have more to relate than you? rsw: relate does not mean speak for, you fucking asshole rsw: either get your terms straight, or don't try to distract dodee: andy, seriously, do you think that most people have white collar jobs that they like their boss? CrewNYC: rsw what you are doing on this chat is speaking for rsw: fuck off, asshole kil: hey Creed: could i get a vid from u? CrewNYC: dodee: ? dodee: no banning! SummAh: jason rsw: dodee: thiiisss clooosse jjcha-mee: hmm? SummAh: don't u ever wonder if deniz sits n plays n learn abt the game? dodee: andy: it's not confusing... SummAh: instead of spending his time in practice mod.e.finding errors~ jjcha-mee: i'm sure he's a scrub dodee: most people have white collar jobs, and like their boss (true or false) jjcha-mee: but you know i thought about it kil: rsw:r u telling me 2 f off or ? rsw: will you help me explain to this piece of shit that relate does not equal speak for? SummAh: I don't know how he's got so much time :)! jjcha-mee: who am i to take away whatever pleasure he takes in this activity rsw: no, kil. jjcha-mee: even if it is pathetic kil: ok cool CrewNYC: dodee: you see I dunno, I have an aunt who worked most her life in white collar liked her bosses dodee: well the answer is F CrewNYC: myself I have 1/3 ratio CrewNYC: sal's liked most of his bosses CrewNYC: and he's a tough one CrewNYC: adam too CrewNYC: and he's a generally nice guy dodee: personal experience is not always equal to the statistucs jjcha-mee: i mean does it really help to tell someone like that, get a life? dodee: statistics, either CrewNYC: yeah but like i said *** Moeb`afk (x@proxy2.via.com.tw) has joined channel #VFHOME CrewNYC: if you could prove it CrewNYC: that would be fine CrewNYC: with some kinda nationally survey jjcha-mee: as long as he doesn't start getting all pushy or whatever like shroom did SummAh: jason: nod nod CrewNYC: but I really think most of the country is content with their bosses CrewNYC: it doesnt mean they are happy with what they do, or where they are in life baobab: andy: i believe you are wrong CrewNYC: they respect and are content with their bosses SummAh: well: big organizations are starting to realise they have to treat their employees well in order to remain competitive dodee: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/annpay.t01.htm *** nanUT (nandato@227.new-york-02rh15rt-ny.dial-access.att.net) has joined channel #vfhome *** Mode change "+o nanUT" on #vfhome by AwayEug CrewNYC: pay scale? rsw: http://www.panix.com/~dhenwood/IncByClass.gif baobab: sal: have you liked all the people you've worked for? nanUT: yes i have nanUT: why? ETP: nanUT: is unc setting things up again? nanUT: yep SummAh: sal: they are discussing big issues...u should just go back to UT kekekeke CreeeD: oic. nanUT: he's throwing the bots out baobab: jsut wanted to hear it from the horses mouth jjcha-mee: you know, the median income is far below those averages you're quoting.. nanUT: such a weird question SummAh: rico..i got good news for u (kinda good) nanUT: game started i think rsw: "but I really think most of the country is content with their bosses" nanUT: etp rsw: what the fuck are basing that on?! nanUT: game started nanUT: creed is playing with us! SummAh: Hey guys, sorry I couldn't come down that day. By the time I was out of my family dinner it was 9 pm already. BUT, the good news is that I may very well end up in Singapore full time after graduation, so there could be plenty of future bouts. SummAh: Thanks to everyone who went out to Bugis to play with me, and sorry once again for not making it on Tuesday! nanUT: ! ETP: sweet SummAh: that's jeff's post~ *** nanUT has left channel #vfhome rsw: the fairy fucking godmother? CrewNYC: rsw: fact that I think people make the best of their situations rsw: sum: that's somewhat happy news SummAh: kekeke dodee: I just dont understand how anyone could have this 50's sitcom perception where joe the laborer greets his boss with a big grin and firm handshake indications honest respect every morning rsw: and what the fuck do you base the idea that people make the best of their situations? either want to or are able to? rsw: that's such unbelievable tripe CrewNYC: fact that I see it all around me, people struggle to improve their lives CrewNYC: thats all CrewNYC: people have to make the best of what they have rsw: how does people trying to do that somehow make them like their boss? CrewNYC: thats just a general thing I believe about most people CreeeD: bbiab. CrewNYC: it makes them content somedude2: wow, still going on CrewNYC: its like being depressed all day baobab: that's true andy...but it doesn't mean it's fun CrewNYC: or accpeting this is how something is CrewNYC: and working with the situation to make it better CrewNYC: at some point your just content *** nanUT (nandato@227.new-york-02rh15rt-ny.dial-access.att.net) has joined channel #vfhome *** Mode change "+o nanUT" on #vfhome by AwayEug rsw: how about i make the best of this current situation and kb you for life? CrewNYC: I mean isn;t the national survey you hold 7 jobs in your entire life ETP: derf CrewNYC: so they that means what the avg job over a 40 year job span is 11 years? rsw: wtf does that have to do with anything? nanUT: fixing stuff be patient :> dodee: that's interesting math CrewNYC: whoa CrewNYC: bad math CrewNYC: :) rsw: crew - it goes back to what dodee said about people having to work (and not up and quit) or else DIE rsw: which is a place you have never been CrewNYC: it means you have to be content ETP: im patient, im just new to it, so i get confused and frightened rsw: and have NO understanding of CrewNYC: why would you be unhappy everyday? nanUT: lol dodee: if people loving their jobs and stuff was so common, we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we do SummAh: whoo hoo! CrewNYC: it just means people strive to be happy SummAh: GIRL NEXT DOOR IS TAKING OFF HER TOP! SummAh: BRB nanUT: tetp, u gotta read the top to see what ppl are saying ETP: lol dodee: you DO acknowledge that the "working for the weekend" concept is the norm, right? *** SummAh is now known as SUmPeeP *** Mode change "+b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw *** CrewNYC has been kicked off channel #vfhome by rsw (i'm strivin' for happiness on #vfhome!) ETP: nanUT: everytime i look up i seem to die ETP: heh ETP: but ill do it more often somedude2: lol baobab: http://corp.careerbuilder.com/cfm/newsview.cfm?type=release&ID=132 dodee: that most people dont wake up without an alarm clock and a sunbeam on their face, stretch and are ready for a great day of making the world better for themselves and everyone else? dodee: fuck! baobab: dammit, i just found something too dodee: fuck you rich! ETP: rsw: sweet nanUT: theres a beep when someone talks *** Mode change "-b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw dodee: I'll admit I'm cynical, but jesus. rsw: prv msg'ed those to himm, he may be in. ETP: if i had some cash to fall back on, i wouldnt give a shit about you working bums either dodee: hahaha *** CrewNYC (CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com) has joined channel #vfhome baobab: laff CrewNYC: okat time to sleep CrewNYC: night dudes dodee: andy nanUT: andy wait dodee: read that url baobab: night andy nanUT: etp, baobab: http://corp.careerbuilder.com/cfm/newsview.cfm?type=release&ID=132 rsw: let me help you on your way. ETP: yo nanUT: ut now *** Mode change "+b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw *** CrewNYC has been kicked off channel #vfhome by rsw (bye!) *** nanUT has left channel #vfhome ghostdog: LOL dodee: "More than half of workers 56 percent report that they work under a great deal of stress" dodee: arrghhghghh! FeAr187: hiya! baobab: Top pet peeves: incompetent persons of authority (bosses, supervisors and management) *** Mode change "-b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw dodee: Top pet peeves: incompetent persons of authority (bosses, supervisors and management), dodee: hahaha dodee: I'm just jealous that I live in the real world baobab: it's a bit dated, but it does help your point along rsw: CrewNYC: went from 69 to 65 rsw: CrewNYC: rest of the article is supporting reasons for the drop rsw: CrewNYC: 65 is above half rsw: CrewNYC: I win rsw: CrewNYC: goddnight rsw: ... rsw: lol. dodee: whaaaaaat? *** nanUT (nandato@227.new-york-02rh15rt-ny.dial-access.att.net) has joined channel #vfhome *** Mode change "+o nanUT" on #vfhome by AwayEug rsw: prv msg nanUT: ? rsw: ircle has : instead of dodee: right *** CrewNYC (CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com) has joined channel #vfhome dodee: but I'm trying to figure out his logic baobab: overall job satisfaction was what he was looking at rsw: he saying that to me dodee: andy! CrewNYC: hehehehehe CrewNYC: 69-65 CrewNYC: overall dodee: that's 69% statisFACTION dodee: not satisFIED CrewNYC: article is just supporting reasons for the 4% drop CrewNYC: 65 is majority CrewNYC: I win CrewNYC: like I said dodee: that stat doesn't work like that CrewNYC: good night :) dodee: that stat is HOW satisfied they are baobab: 65% did not say they like their boss though kil: Creed:could i get chibita vs shu from u? dodee: "on a scale from 1-100 how satisfied are you" rsw: you win...a ban! CrewNYC: now thats english :) rsw: a lasting one, too CrewNYC: was I supposed to interpret BOSS somewhere CreeeD: kil: maybe in a bit, playing online games CrewNYC: the article was supposed to support your argument kil: ok CreeeD: bbiab CrewNYC: but 65 is more than half dodee: andy, you aren't reading baobab: nm andy dodee: read my last lines again dodee: and THAT is of workers who also have the disposable income to have PCs and internet access CrewNYC: it cites reasons why people dont like their jobs dodee: already a skewed number CrewNYC: boss will be one of them of course dodee: so people that have THAT good of a job, they're still already only 65% satisfied CrewNYC: but in a survey with multiple elements CrewNYC: no one can extrapolate boss CrewNYC: and make some kind of judgement dodee: the MAIN complaint is management dodee: that's why it was listed there CrewNYC: actually it sounds like workload is the maiin complaint of the article *** Signoff: nanUT (Ping timeout: no data for 243 seconds) dodee: there was one line about workload... dodee: "66 percent are dissatisfied with the opportunities for career advancement at their current employer." dodee: yeah, that doesn't facilitate resentment CrewNYC: and that translates into BOSS? rsw: andy, just give it up dodee: uhm, yeah. CrewNYC: they arent happy cause theres limited growth opportinities at the company dodee: if you CANT advance, how are you gonna feel about your boss? dodee: ADVANCEMENT != growth CrewNYC: when did that translate into boss? CrewNYC: YES and growth depends on the size of your company CrewNYC: you cant displace a boss you have dodee: upward mobility has zilch to do with growth *** Signoff: jjcha-mee () dodee: if you cant advance, how are you gonna feel about people who are above you? dodee: and who hands down the workloads that are too high? dodee: m a n a g e m e n t CrewNYC: you know what it doesnt negate that you are now talking about thw whole job experience, workload, environment, team etc CrewNYC: are all mentioned CrewNYC: in one liners CrewNYC: just like the one you posted rsw watches in dismay as dodee's bullet of a point bounces off of crew's thick head dodee: who "causes" the workload? CrewNYC: BTW dodee: who causes the environement you work in? CrewNYC: to adress dodee's point dodee: you cant see the forest for the trees CrewNYC: I have something you creed and rich PROBABLY dont have CrewNYC: I was the boss looking down CrewNYC: and I had to give out big workloads CrewNYC: and I had to get people to like me CrewNYC: as the boss *** yunsun (identd@acc-isdn3-29.aa.psu.edu) has joined channel #vfhome rsw: snnghhh CrewNYC: it was like a full time job CrewNYC: so lemme break my experience down that I can speak from dodee: my last job was a producer, I had to delegate, too CrewNYC: I hated it, I disliked giving out the jobs dodee: I had 5 people under me, and another 5 parallel CrewNYC: but the group knew the work needed to be donea CrewNYC: and most were responsible CrewNYC: I always asked about the working environment CrewNYC: and people were generally pleased dodee: andy, our jobs are inherently cushy dodee: we aren't the foreman at the steel plant dodee: office jobs are but a percentage CrewNYC: we only had one person leave out of 19 in 2 years dodee: and even then, where do you think the boss character from dilbert came from? CrewNYC: he's a faux dodee: an internet startup is so NOT the real world andy, you know that. CrewNYC: where did george bushes cartoon come from CrewNYC: to further use your own words against you CrewNYC: "these are people with PC's and disposeable income" dodee: it's a caricature of the real situation dodee: yeah...and? CrewNYC: thats where this stat came from? you seem to want to adress steel plants and you throw a survery from people with PC's and disposable imcome to me? dodee: 65% satisfaction for jobs that are cushy enough to provide that much disposable income is awful CrewNYC: can you draw a conclusion based on this survery then/ dodee: arghhh! kil: cya guys kil: laterz dodee: because it's SKEWED towards you standpoint, and is STILL bad dodee: dont you get that? CrewNYC: its still majority dodee: that's why it was used CrewNYC: its not so bad at all CrewNYC: 69-65 CrewNYC: 4% drop dodee: you haven't read a thing I said CrewNYC: 69 was also above 2/3 *** Signoff: kil () CrewNYC: 65 is close to 2/3 dodee: that's a 1-100 scale of how satisfied each worker is rsw: no, he has, he's just unable to comprehend dodee: not an AVERAGE CrewNYC: no rich, im replying rsw: or unwilling CrewNYC: why should I accept something that I think is wrong dodee: if you ask the average worker that replied to that survey how satisfied they are on a 1-100 scale, they'd say 69 dodee: that's what that number means rsw: yes, replying with gibberish that's a product of your inability to understand rsw: anyway, take this to prv msg. dodee: not 69% of people are satisfied to a "are you satisfied, yes or no" question dodee: get it? *** Mode change "+b *!CrewNYC@66-108-96-221.nyc.rr.com" on #vfhome by rsw *** CrewNYC has been kicked off channel #vfhome by rsw (die.) dodee: arhjjj! dodee: he cant be serious dodee: there's no way rsw: he is rsw: he is _that_ fucked in the head dodee: I didn't evne grow up POOR POOR dodee: I was lowermiddleclass from the getgo dodee: and even I can see that. yunsun: it seems like crewnyc hasn't changed much. dodee: and I'll admit I had it relatively easy baobab: i grew up in a trailer park in a suburb of phoenix *** yunsun is identd@acc-isdn3-29.aa.psu.edu (hi) *** yunsun is on channels #vfhome #Korea *** yunsun is on IRC via server irc.west.gblx.net (Global Crossing West Client Server) *** yunsun has been idle for 17 seconds *** yunsun signed on at Friday, April 19, 2002 3:21:15 AM baobab: latchkey kid with a single mom dodee: andy would get killed at some steel laborers union meeting or something rsw: yun: you missed about two hours of that sort of disgusting shit baobab: i think i can see "workers perspective" a bit clearer than andy CreeeD: ok. yunsun: you guys remember me? CreeeD: well that blew. dodee: andy has NO idea rsw: dodee: i know, i said that a while ago CreeeD: rsw: now I remember why I like quake. rsw: if i don't kill him...well, he'll manage it himself with someone else CreeeD: rsw: imagine quake with a big, projectile that ricochets off walls and floors and kills in 1 hit. rsw: creed: awww rsw: grenades! CreeeD: UT is like a bad mod for Q3 CreeeD: rsw: and has no range limitations. rsw: now now, give it some time. rsw: at least, until i get to try it :) CreeeD: I did, I gave it enough time to figure out I didn't like it :) rsw: yun: actually...is this jo? CreeeD: it's just like quake3 in movement, but big splash and slow firing from projectiles, and some gay weapons. baobab: yeah, the rockets just fly straight till they hit something dodee: no dodee: it's emily, andy's ex there dodee: the other moo cow yunsun: oh geez.. rsw: heee. yunsun: I haven't heard that in a long time. dodee: yeah well...we haven't missed it dodee: the mooing I mean FeAr187: heeeeey UnCBrb: hahaha UnCBrb: Creed u kill me UnCBrb: i gotta invite u in again some time UnCBrb: just to hear u bitch UnCBrb: lol dodee: hahaha rsw: unc: play quake now. dodee: its hard to adjust, creed dodee: entirely different ball game rsw: creed tried ut, now you humor us. UnCBrb: ripper worst weapon in UT UnCBrb: and creed complains UnCBrb: like it breaks the game UnCBrb: lol CreeeD: it's just a bad idea. It shows designers who don't know what they're doing. UnCBrb: hahaha UnCBrb: bad idea how? UnCBrb: or wait a second UnCBrb: it was creative? UnCBrb: not just a gun that shoots straight CreeeD: please! random flukey damage, sometimes it hurts you and other times it's a 1 hit kill? that's a good start UnCBrb: or makes a big explosion UnCBrb: dood UnCBrb: u got hit in the head UnCBrb: lol UnCBrb: headshot u die CreeeD: if the whole game has this "headshot" system, that's gay UnCBrb: rocket headshot u die dodee: locational damage is hard for quake people. =) UnCBrb: hahaha CreeeD: nobody fucking aims for a five pixel head, they just luck out. dodee: locational damage is the shit, matt CreeeD: it's shit alright. UnCBrb: and you just happened to be the wiener that stood there and got ripped UnCBrb: ;) CreeeD: random, flakey, flukey shit. UnCBrb: dood ripper sucks dodee: well, good luck ever finding another fps that doesn't have it UnCBrb: mad case rsw: unc! play quake! UnCBrb: only person i ever knew complained about ripper UnCBrb: rsw i'm about to sleep CreeeD: worst weapon in the game can kill in one lucky shot, boy I just can't WAIT to see the best weapons in the hands of someone who can actually SHOOT! UnCBrb: but this was way to funnny CreeeD: dodee: I have one. UnCBrb: hahaha CreeeD: dodee: and I'm happy with it. UnCBrb: creed i was using them rsw: unc: you play tomorrow, it's only fair. UnCBrb: i killed u many times with the best weapons UnCBrb: lol UnCBrb: rsw: BS i'm done with quake rsw: bullshit! he sent it to you! UnCBrb: i got jedi knight 2 now ;) rsw: you know you want to. UnCBrb: and someone else sent me jedi knight 2 UnCBrb: jedi knight 2 is new and different UnCBrb: i'm not an old dog that can't learn new tricks CreeeD: wouldn't it be nice to play a game where they knew wtf they were doing on level design tho? UnCBrb: in fact i prefer them rsw: put aside a few minutes in your precious gaming schedule and show us what you got. CreeeD: rather than this long corridors with nooks shit?! UnCBrb: hahaha UnCBrb: that was one map UnCBrb: creeed just admit UnCBrb: u just can't play it CreeeD: sure, but I bet it's your fave. You picked it. UnCBrb: and don't want to adapt UnCBrb: nah it's not CreeeD: unc: you're right on the second part. UnCBrb: though i do like it UnCBrb: i'm right about the first part UnCBrb: first off UnCBrb: u complained about ripper UnCBrb: ROFLOL UnCBrb: sign #1 UnCBrb: u don't know shit about the game UnCBrb: lol UnCBrb: and won't adapt CreeeD: lolololol, fuck off, random damage is gay in any game. UnCBrb: dood like i said UnCBrb: ripper sux UnCBrb: does little damage CreeeD: if it's a shitty weapon, then it shouldn't kill me before I even see it coming. UnCBrb: and is best used in small areas CreeeD: sure, little damage. UnCBrb: hahaha UnCBrb: it does do little damage dodee: not random damage UnCBrb: omfg dodee: locational dodee: big diff UnCBrb: someone shot it at you UnCBrb: u turned around like a wiener UnCBrb: and prolly walked your head into a blade UnCBrb: lop dodee: and disc there isn't exactly hitscan CreeeD: dodee: you randomly die or you don't. the difference isn't enough to mean much to the dead guy. UnCBrb: it's not easy to get headshots with ripper UnCBrb: i on the other hand CreeeD: it's not "easy" to headshot with anything, it's a fluke! UnCBrb: CAN headshot you on purpose with ripper CreeeD: luck determines whether I live or die! dodee: I got mad headshots in tfc and stuff UnCBrb: haha UnCBrb: BS CreeeD: what, using zoom? a moving five pixel target, it's a fluke. UnCBrb: ripper in a small hallway dodee: like any game, it's learning how it works UnCBrb: increases the chance you die by ripper UnCBrb: depending on how YOU move UnCBrb: now open space if you get killed by ripper UnCBrb: you're just a moron UnCBrb: lol CreeeD: yeah yeah yeah, you "aim" for the head by trapping someone in a hallway and skipping it in the hopes it's more likely to headshot. great, I'm in love with the strategy. UnCBrb: ripper is only somewhat effective UnCBrb: in a small hallway dodee: ripper just bounces around, so if they start aiming high in a confined space, your chance of a headshot is upped dodee: it is strategic UnCBrb: that is a strategy UnCBrb: but the idea to get a good headshot with ripper dodee: just like nades in an open area in quake is dumb UnCBrb: is to aim at the ground or the ceiling UnCBrb: causing it to go at steep angles UnCBrb: if you're TRYING to spam UnCBrb: otherwise you better shoot for the head CreeeD: whatever, I'm a moron, fine. I don't need to lose 300 times adapting to a game system I can already tell I don't like, AND be insulted at the same time. Fuck off and have fun. I'll play something else, stick to whatever you like. UnCBrb: ripper can kill the user more often than the target UnCBrb: lol dodee: well, you played gainst someone who's rather good at it dodee: if we jumped into quake 3 ctf, I'd run that. same deal CreeeD: dodee: I died to ETP, he's a UT expert? rsw: and good at insulting.. UnCBrb: hahaha UnCBrb: I just find it funny UnCBrb: how fast u jumped up CreeeD: I can tell, you're full of giggles. UnCBrb: threw your hands in the air baobab: "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right." baobab: -- Mark Twain baobab: "The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right." baobab: -- Mark Twain UnCBrb: ripper is too good! CreeeD: hahaha lol hahaha lol random insult lol! UnCBrb: when it is not baobab: oop UnCBrb: and then tell me why it's such a bad weapon UnCBrb: when it is hardly used UnCBrb: by competent players CreeeD: it's not the weapon, it's the whole game design concept of "headshots" UnCBrb: and sucky players UnCBrb: rarely if ever dodee: I dont see why you'd hate locational UnCBrb: will kill a good player with it CreeeD: there's a reason virtua fighter doesn't have you get crippled after three hits in the leg. dodee: in vf you only get so many rounds UnCBrb: okay look at it this way dodee: in an FPS you spawn unlimited times UnCBrb: you can see how a ripper bounces UnCBrb: and where it's coming from UnCBrb: ripper takes over 6 hits UnCBrb: to kill you if it doesn't hit your head CreeeD: dodee: I don't like luck determining the outcome of the match, ripper-in-the-hallway aside. UnCBrb: you use ripper dodee: where else was luck a factor? UnCBrb: I kill you before random ricochets even become a factor CreeeD: dodee: I'm taking it from the explanation that anything that hits the head will cause high damage or kill, no? UnCBrb: plus there's a great chance you'll kill yourself dodee: yeah, IF you get hit in the head UnCBrb: and how small is the head? dodee: and there's really few FAST weapons in ut dodee: and only the sniper rifle zooms baobab: laff...this one is just too funny, glad he never got into the oval office baobab: "It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." baobab: -- Vice President Dan Quayle UnCBrb: haha UnCBrb: quayle owns CreeeD: 1 frag out of the ten or so times I died is too many for me. fuck it. you can argue all day that I'm not adapting, I'm a pussy, blah blah blah, but I liked quake the instant I touched it, and it's at LEAST as unfair in some ways as anything out there. dodee: I dont think you're a pussy or stupid or anything dodee: but getting your ass kicked in your first game is part of the territory CreeeD: dodee: that was mostly directed at captain insulto. UnCBrb: hmm? UnCBrb: oh i'm sorry UnCBrb: you're thin skinned dodee: any game you jump into is gonna assrape you UnCBrb: i forgot *** Signoff: ShinJin (shmeckle!!!!) dodee: and unc has a flair for the trash talking UnCBrb: play any fps out there at this point and time UnCBrb: except quake UnCBrb: cause i don't play it anymore UnCBrb: and i will beat you to the point UnCBrb: that you hate the game UnCBrb: and consider it's cheap as all hell dodee: teamfortress, the most played version of quake 1, had locational CreeeD: dodee: yeah but my argument still stands. I didn't dominate my first game of quake, but I had fun. The movement, the brightness, the sidestepping, SOMEthing, little things in the game feel off. I feel sluggish as shit, the projectiles look like they're a mile wide... dodee: UT isn't my cup of tea either UnCBrb: the thing is creeed i'm TRYING to tell you UnCBrb: that there is strategy to the game UnCBrb: and awful lot dodee: ut felt unresponsive to me UnCBrb: but if you get frustrated off of a ripper kill UnCBrb: you will never see it UnCBrb: sort of like the vf scrub CreeeD: unc: wow, you not only insult, you're arrogant as well. I like that in a man. I sure want to play now that I hear you're some sort of god I might never beat even with 5000 games under my belt! oh boy! UnCBrb: that gets rung out UnCBrb: well UnCBrb: you already knew i was arrogant rsw: creed: come 1on1 with me like before and feel better. UnCBrb: that shouldn't be a surprise *** yunsun has left channel #vfhome dodee: ok, that was weird. UnCBrb: but i'm glad you tried UnCBrb: thx CreeeD: yeah that sounded weird rich. dodee: I meant emily coming here rsw: well, duh CreeeD: unc: heh, none of your arguments worked, but I'll probably play again so that nobody's like "what a fucking pussy"... even privately to themselves. dodee: who says "hey! I think I'll pop ino the IRC channel of my ex boyfriend that I messily broke up with 2 years ago!" CreeeD: dodee: which ? eh? UnCBrb: Creeed that's cool UnCBrb: whatever baobab: right when he left too dodee: matty: yunsun = emily, andy's golddigging ex UnCBrb: as long as you give it another shot UnCBrb: maybe one day you'll reach my level of understanding of UT UnCBrb: if not UnCBrb: que sera dodee: hah CreeeD: unc: and yes, I can see how a weapon that takes six hits to kill and isn't rapid fire is crappy. I STILL don't like random damage, but fuck it, maybe it'll only happen 1/20 now that I know to watch for it. baobab: dodee: the timing was really wierd UnCBrb: Creeeed if you look for it dodee: bao: especially at 3:30 am CreeeD: dodee: rad/. UnCBrb: then it will kill you maybe 1/100 UnCBrb: ripper sux dodee: random damage wheeeerrreeeee? UnCBrb: plain and simple UnCBrb: it's used to frustrate people dodee: if you hate that, dont play AVP2, matty UnCBrb: that's literally what it's there for dodee: in avp2, that fucker heatseaks UnCBrb: take little chunks of damage CreeeD: dodee: laff, I'm sure I won't. UnCBrb: or to chase people out of hallways UnCBrb: Creeed if there's a weapon to bitch about dodee: I played ut for like...2 weeks UnCBrb: it's the flak UnCBrb: which i didn't use on purpose dodee: and had a decent understanding of it, and still didn't like it CreeeD: yeah wtf is that? baobab: flak is fun *** noman (daspod@adsl-mikve-pc-132-218.inter.net.il) has joined channel #vfhome UnCBrb: flak is what you should be complaining about ;) CreeeD: were you going easy on me with that big frigging purple ball thing!? UnCBrb: nah CreeeD: that killed me more than a few times. baobab: it's like a wierd shotgun thingy UnCBrb: that's one of the "pro" weapons UnCBrb: also the easiest way to dispatch newbs who load a lot of rockets CreeeD: what about the lightning gun wannabe? I saw it only once. Is it worth anything? UnCBrb: get hit by purple ball UnCBrb: and fly into walls and die UnCBrb: plasma gun is good UnCBrb: beats mini gun UnCBrb: which beats shock rifle (purple ball gun) CreeeD: which is the rapid fire one that has starfox-like effects when you're seeing it headon right? UnCBrb: yeah rapid fire is mini gun CreeeD: so RL is fourth!? UnCBrb: now flak gun shoots out little shrapnel that can ricochet shorter than ripper CreeeD: and I wasted all that fucking time opening that door for it!? UnCBrb: but it's a pain in the ass UnCBrb: because a close flak UnCBrb: can kill in one shot CreeeD: gay! UnCBrb: and it shoots relatively quickly CreeeD: so wait it's fifth? CreeeD: RL blows dude, jesus. UnCBrb: dood UnCBrb: RL dodee: yeah, rl's ass UnCBrb: is like UnCBrb: #2 CreeeD: oh UnCBrb: no RL is badass dodee: whaaa? UnCBrb: seriously UnCBrb: give me a flakker baobab: you can shoot 5 rockets at a time UnCBrb: i'll give u 10 rocket launchers UnCBrb: players CreeeD: so which is 1 if RL is 2? UnCBrb: that will own them up UnCBrb: shock UnCBrb: the gun i was using a lot UnCBrb: with the big purple ball UnCBrb: shock is all about prediction CreeeD: but you said mini beats that, and so does plasma UnCBrb: but it's hella effective UnCBrb: no UnCBrb: shock beats plasma UnCBrb: ;) UnCBrb: mini beats shock dodee: you're not making sense CreeeD: oh dodee: what is the best gun? UnCBrb: okay UnCBrb: here's why UnCBrb: plasma has a relatively short range dodee: nonono! dodee: simple terms dodee: best gun = UnCBrb: best overall gun? dodee: if you could only have one gun ever dodee: in quake, it'd be rl. ut's RL is... UnCBrb: rocket launcher, no real short comings except for shock rsw: i sleep. Log file closed at: 4/19/02 4:06:33 AM