4:22 AM:      dodee:

http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=04-12-2002&forum=iotd&id=-1

4:22 AM:        rsw: updated vfhome page

4:22 AM:      dodee: holy shit

4:22 AM:    Ellinas: but of course all the newbie users wouldnt know about it

4:22 AM:      dodee: check that url out

4:22 AM:        rsw: for those that didn't see unc and creed go at it

4:22 AM:      dodee: that's rendered

4:23 AM:      CreeD: oh boy.

4:23 AM:        rsw: um

4:24 AM:        rsw: considering the stuff creed has been showing me, i'm

violently unimpressed, dodee

4:24 AM:        rsw: VIOLENTLY unimpressed.

4:24 AM:    Ellinas: what has creed been showing you?

4:24 AM:    Ellinas: and i like that use of violently where it doesnt belong

4:24 AM:      CreeD: it's private.

4:24 AM:    Ellinas: violence should be everywhere

4:24 AM:      CreeD: ;)

4:24 AM:        rsw: i'm sure creed could bust out some urls

4:24 AM:      CreeD: yeah that one was on zoorender.com too

4:25 AM:    Ellinas: bust out some urls creed

4:25 AM:    Ellinas: cmon then

4:25 AM:      dodee: that tank is disgustingly photoreal

4:25 AM:        rsw: no, it's not

4:25 AM:      dodee: if it wasn't all white, you'd sing a different song

4:25 AM:      CreeD: it looks nice due the lack of any attempt at textures or

shading, most engines can handle absolute matte white and do a pretty good job

of it.

4:25 AM:    Ellinas: yeah that tank isnt so impressive

4:26 AM:      dodee: you people are idiots

4:26 AM:        rsw: if it wasn't all white, it'd be even easier to see

4:26 AM:    Ellinas: i thought u were referring to the program behind it, the

text at the bottom

4:26 AM:      CreeD: rich had a kickass render url just recently, the dude with

the lopsided right eye.

4:26 AM:        rsw: yes

4:26 AM:      CreeD: doee: if it wasn't all white, it'd also be less realistic

:/

4:26 AM:      dodee: uh... how so?

4:26 AM:        rsw: thanks for repeating :)

4:26 AM:    Ellinas: it looks like a toy tank

4:26 AM:      CreeD: it's more a testament to whatever software did that than

the dude's skill at building models

4:27 AM:      dodee: that's what I mean

4:27 AM:      dodee: the renderer

4:27 AM:        rsw: suuuurrreee

4:27 AM:      dodee: yeah, I post a url to a coding page for a the content of

the picture

4:27 AM:      dodee: one guy wrote the renderer

4:29 AM:      CreeD: it handles radiosity, but it's nothing you can't do with

freeware megapov

4:29 AM:    Ellinas: damn

4:29 AM:    Ellinas: u got my gay moment in the log

4:29 AM:      dodee: people are so jaded

4:30 AM:    Ellinas: doom 3 has jaded me good

4:30 AM:      dodee: try coding an ogl app to make a cube and get back to me

4:30 AM:        rsw: "guys! check out this awesome render! it's photorealistic!

it's awesome!" -> "no it's not" -> "well actually i meant the program is

awesome."

4:30 AM:      CreeD: lol

4:30 AM:      dodee: rich, you SO dont wanna get me started tonight

4:30 AM:    Ellinas: another log!

4:31 AM:      dodee: that render is obscenely nice

4:31 AM:      dodee: and the ONLY reason you disagree is because I posted it

4:31 AM:      dodee: taht's 10000x nicer than the game screens we were looking

at the other night

4:31 AM:      dodee: yet that was somehow nice

4:31 AM:      CreeD: "jesus christ that guy can't drive an F1 course for shit"

"you try building your own formula one racer from the ground up and get back to

me"

4:31 AM:        rsw: i did nothing more that post a summary of what the

conversation was like

4:31 AM:    Ellinas: game is different from a render

4:31 AM:        rsw: and i wasn't the only one who disagreed

4:31 AM:    Ellinas: perfection is expected in a render

4:32 AM:      dodee: no, you posted the "bitch williams translation" of it

4:32 AM:        rsw: and i'm not so shallow i'd disagree with it because it's

associated with you

4:32 AM:      dodee: perfection is unattainable in a render

4:32 AM:      dodee: yes you are

4:32 AM:        rsw: now you're just being pissy

4:32 AM:    Ellinas: obviously not

4:32 AM:      CreeD: dodee: that renderer doesn't do anything different from the

absolute bare minimum a raytracing app can do. I dare say >I< can do that render

with shoddy freeware tools.

4:32 AM:    Ellinas: but the standards for a render are much higher than a game

4:33 AM:      CreeD: yeah re ellinas. That doesn't have to move.

4:33 AM:      dodee: the lighting for that tank are way nicer than freeware

renderers

4:33 AM:      CreeD: if that were in a game it'd be measured in frames per hour.

4:33 AM:    Ellinas: they can render for hours and hours

4:33 AM:      CreeD: dodee: no, really, it's not.

4:33 AM:    Ellinas: so you expect everything to be "perfect" and the tank

doesnt look perfect all to me. it feels flat

4:33 AM:      dodee: ok, I forgot matt's the 3d expert

4:33 AM:    Ellinas: it doesnt really seem lifelike

4:33 AM:      CreeD: let me check my sample files in megapov

4:33 AM:      CreeD: brb

4:34 AM:      dodee: "I use freeware renderers, so I know everything"

4:34 AM:      dodee: even with fancypants super expensive rendering programs,

it's still incredibly hard to attain results like that

4:34 AM:      dodee: you have to know precisely how to get them, it isn't like

you load a model and it instantly looks like that

4:34 AM:    Ellinas: sure, it's impressive, but there's waaaaay nicer stuff

around there

4:35 AM:    Ellinas: i mean out there.

4:35 AM:      CreeD: dodee: a 2 min render.

4:35 AM:      dodee: I visit all the rendering sites, and that's one of the

like... 5 nicest renders I've seen

4:35 AM:      dodee: and?

4:35 AM:      dodee: the diffraction's nice, but I woudn't try to pass that off

as real

4:36 AM:      CreeD: dude, you load a model, you define a white background, and

you turn on all the variables for realistic caustics and diffraction and

diffusion, and you have the patience to sit.

4:36 AM:      dodee: uhm, no

4:36 AM:      CreeD: pah lemme find a megapov example, that's regular pov

4:36 AM:      dodee: there's zillions of different lighting schemes, the various

mappings, texture alignment

4:36 AM:      dodee: if it was fire and forget, everyone could do it

4:37 AM:     tragic: man

4:37 AM:     tragic: usa version only says

4:37 AM:     tragic: SHINE

4:37 AM:     tragic: not SHINE GET

4:37 AM:      CreeD: there's no texture, or nothing more complex than matte,

hence no alignment. The lighting scheme could be a half dozen points or 10, but

all he has to do is definite their location and color.

4:38 AM:      CreeD: and intensity.

4:38 AM:      dodee: you aren't even aware of the different lightings

4:38 AM:      dodee: load up maya and try to add a light, see the options

4:38 AM:      CreeD: oh for fuck's sake

4:38 AM:      CreeD: here.

4:39 AM:      dodee: the only thing holding back that render is textures, bump

mapping and the fact that the model is "perfect", as in no flaws on the treads,

etc

4:40 AM:      CreeD: look at this render dude.

4:40 AM:      CreeD: not realistic

4:40 AM:      CreeD: not awesome lighting

4:40 AM:      CreeD: but I daresay I know a -tad- more about rayracing than you.

4:40 AM:      CreeD: that line will lose some impact due to the slow xfer :)

4:41 AM:      dodee: what's the point of a picture that isn't realistic or lit

well in the context of this argument?

4:42 AM:      CreeD: the point is that "I use freeware renderers, so I know

everything"

4:42 AM:      CreeD: or more specifically

4:42 AM:      dodee: explain how that tank render looks fake.

4:42 AM:      CreeD: try coding an ogl app to make a cube and get back to me

4:43 AM:      CreeD: dodee: I didn't say it looked fake, I'm trying to say it's

nothing impressive.

4:43 AM:      dodee: using a renderer is an entirely different ballgame from

doing everything froms cratch

4:43 AM:      dodee: ok, wtf

4:43 AM:      CreeD: you say "it's not just plug in and walk away" and I'm

saying, yeah, it is

4:43 AM:      dodee: it doesn't look fake, but it's not impressive

4:43 AM:      CreeD: you have the right tools, you have a killer PC, then a

simple 3D model like that tank can be made to look incredibly nice

4:43 AM:      dodee: not if you dont know what you're doing with the renderer

4:44 AM:      dodee: I've used maya on and off since beta, and I haven't touched

anything like that, prefab models or not

4:44 AM:    Ellinas:

http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=04-18-2002&forum=iotd&id=-1

4:44 AM:      CreeD: a raytracing program that can do realistic lighting doesn't

impress me in the least, and let's face it, without textures and without

significant tiny-scale detail, the lighting is all that has going for it.

4:44 AM:    Ellinas: neato

4:45 AM:      dodee: ell, that is neat

4:45 AM:      dodee: there's lots of little gems on that

4:45 AM:      CreeD: dodee: it takes more than the fucking-around level you or I

are at, granted, but I'm more impressed with the fakest frame of final fantasy,

the movie than I am by that tank.

4:45 AM:      dodee: but only if you're not too cool for school

4:45 AM:      dodee: that's lame

4:46 AM:        rsw: as in fine cubic zirconium gems

4:46 AM:    Ellinas: i wonder if it's doable in a game. as in, performance

hit-wise

4:46 AM:      dodee: well, stuff like fullscreen AA wasn't doable 2 years ago

4:46 AM:      dodee: now it's free

4:46 AM:    Ellinas: i assume it isnt right now

4:46 AM:    Ellinas: or it would be done right?

4:46 AM:      dodee: gf4 = free FSAA

4:47 AM:    Ellinas: well i dunno about that...

4:47 AM:    Ellinas: more like

4:47 AM:    Ellinas: radeon 9700 = free FSAA

4:47 AM:    Ellinas: almost

4:47 AM:      dodee: the performance hit is so tiny, it's not worth not doing

4:47 AM:    Ellinas: it won't be when doom 3 hits

4:47 AM:    Ellinas: but i'm talking out of my ass

4:47 AM:    Ellinas: but it seems u'll need every bit in doom 3

4:47 AM:      dodee: the way FSAA works, it doesn't care what it's rendering,

really

4:48 AM:    Ellinas: so you're saying...

4:48 AM:      dodee: that's why it's FSAA

4:48 AM:    Ellinas: 600,000 polygons gives u the same % hit as 500 polygons?

4:48 AM: *** Signoff: kofman (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))

4:48 AM:      dodee: it doesn't go through and follow the edges and blend that

way

4:49 AM:    Ellinas: so, yes, it'll be the same % hit?

4:49 AM:      dodee: not exactly, no. but tiny difference

4:49 AM:    Ellinas: i see

4:49 AM:    Ellinas: i suppose it seemed that way from the benchmarks

4:49 AM:    Ellinas: just didnt realize it

4:51 AM:      dodee: other than the upped number of triangles, that's the

biggest boon with the 4

4:52 AM:      dodee: http://www.nvidia.com/docs/lo/1451/SUPP/accuview.final.pdf

interesting if you actually care

4:52 AM:      CreeD:

http://www.zoorender.com/_galleryv2/G01/Mario_Malagrino1.jpg

4:52 AM:    Ellinas: very interested in graphics tech of all kinds

4:53 AM:      dodee: anyway matt, I guess I'm missing the point that was trying

to be made with that jpg

4:53 AM:    Ellinas: now that, i could mistake for a photograph pretty much

4:53 AM:      dodee: that bike however, is very nice

4:53 AM:      dodee: but the only difference is the presence of a background and

a texture

4:54 AM:      CreeD: dodee: just that I take rendering maaaybe a little more

seriously than you, and am probably better at it (you can't see it but I did the

whole pool hall, that's brunswick) and therefore am equally or more qualified to

judge

4:54 AM:      CreeD: you throw around a lot of offended "you're crazy, you're

all stupid" type comments and it doesn't even OCCUR to you that others can

disagree with you and have a valid point.

4:55 AM:    Ellinas: i guess AA is going the way 32 bit colour did

4:55 AM:      dodee: the points weren't logical

4:55 AM:      CreeD: how were they not logical?

4:55 AM:      dodee: "that doesn't look real" and "that would be real looking if

it had a texture" are worlds apart

4:55 AM:      CreeD: my logic is easy to follow.

4:56 AM:      dodee: list 3 things the motorcycle has that the tank doesnt

4:56 AM:      dodee: ya cant, cause there are only two

4:56 AM:      CreeD: "that doesn't impress me" "why?!" "because realistic

lighting and shading is part and parcel of any decent tracing prog, and that's

all that image has going for it." "and because the guy made no attempt at

textures, which are difficult and merit respect when done correctly and well"

4:56 AM:      dodee: realistic lighting isn't FREE

4:57 AM:      CreeD: the motorcycle has more complex geometry, everything on

that tank can be done with intersections of spheres and cylinders, while curving

irregular surfaces are a much bigger and harder ball of wax

4:57 AM:      CreeD: it has textures which must be aligned as you pointed out

earlier

4:57 AM:      dodee: in professional rendering, like for movies and shit, there

are lighting engineers.

4:57 AM:      CreeD: it has metal, which takes a little more thought to make

realistic than matte white.

4:57 AM:      dodee: for the *renderer*

4:57 AM:      dodee: dont tell me lighting is automatic

4:58 AM:      dodee: where on that tank would there be shiny metal?

4:58 AM:    Ellinas: that metal looks insane

4:58 AM: *** Signoff: tragic (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)

4:58 AM:        rsw: i don't know much about raytracing, but that tank did zilch

for me. it was plain and angular and utterly mediocre. and it would probably do

even LESS than zilch for me if i had a better view of it than tiny shitty low

res images

4:58 AM:      CreeD: dodee: that's besides the point, the guy wasn't ambitious

enough to give it a texture. Where do you find a real life tank made of

featureless matte white formica-ish material?

4:58 AM:      dodee: and according to your logic, complex geometry is free in

decent renderers, right?

4:59 AM:      CreeD: dodee: sure, POV can handle quartics and meshes.

4:59 AM:      dodee: so what's the point of mentioning it?

4:59 AM:      CreeD: could a guy in POV put out that tank or bike? absolutely.

Would it take 1000000000 hours more work than it would with a REAL render tool

?Sure.

5:00 AM:      dodee: where's the rabid POV adovcacy relate to this?

5:00 AM:      CreeD: the point of mentioning the curves is that anyone who has

even remotely fucked around with curves should be much more impressed with

realistic and well done curved surfaces on that bike than they should be with

plaintank.

5:01 AM:      CreeD: I'm not even a POV advocate, just trying to say that EVERY

raytracer can do that tank and a LOT of guys can make it look that good

5:02 AM:      dodee: I think you invest too heavily in specific topics

5:02 AM:      dodee: -s

5:02 AM:      CreeD: pah this is going nowhere. trust me when I say that I'm not

disputing the impressiveness of the tank just to be ornery and anti-dodee

5:02 AM:      CreeD: had you posted that bike I woulda been more impressed.

5:03 AM:      CreeD: I may have even been more impressed had I not seen the tank

before

5:03 AM:      dodee: the bike's nice, but I can criticise it the same

5:03 AM:      CreeD: hah you'll have your work cut out for you. The tires have

no tread and the metal's too smooth and featureless in places, but whatever

5:03 AM:    Ellinas: i think u just overhyped the tank :D

5:04 AM:      dodee: well, you've done the dirty work

5:04 AM:      CreeD: not to add anything to the argument, but merely a nice pic

I like:

5:04 AM:      CreeD: http://www.zoorender.com/_galleryv2/G04/Ayesha_Sikandar.jpg

5:04 AM:      dodee: intentionally rendering something difficult adequately

versus rendering something simple perfectly

5:04 AM:      CreeD: adequate is understating that bike by a bit I think. my mom

would think it's a photo.

5:05 AM:      dodee: textured and in an environment, you all would be singing a

different song about the tank

5:05 AM:      CreeD: sure, if the tank-maker has the skill to keep it at that

level WITH texture, then he really ought to.

5:05 AM:      dodee: and "it isn't textured and doesn't have a 2 second textured

wall behind it, so it sucks" is a shitty argument

5:06 AM:      dodee: if anything more people should model and render under the

tank's handicaps, just to make the model and lighting and shit better

5:06 AM:      CreeD: laff, sure, whatever. ellinas said it more perfectly and

succinctly than I ever could manage

5:06 AM:      dodee: textures are great, but they're icing

5:06 AM:      CreeD: you overhyped it plain and simple

5:06 AM:      CreeD: people are disagreeing, three of them, and you're having a

fit.

5:06 AM:      dodee: I think you're just snitty today

5:06 AM:      CreeD: you're the dude who won't let it drop, I'm trying to with:

pah this is going nowhere. trust me when I say that I'm not disputing the

impressiveness of the tank just to be ornery and anti-dodee

5:06 AM:      CreeD: and not to add anything to the argument, but merely a nice

pic I like:

5:06 AM:      CreeD: [5:03am] <CreeD>

http://www.zoorender.com/_galleryv2/G04/Ayesha_Sikandar.jpg

5:07 AM:      CreeD: really, we should quit while we're behinds.

5:07 AM:      dodee: oh, the wit.

5:07 AM:      CreeD: noooow who's a snit? cooome on dodee, it's 5:00 in the

morning.

5:08 AM:      dodee: huh?

5:08 AM:      CreeD: my good material fades at around 2:50

5:08 AM:      dodee: oh.

5:08 AM:      dodee: it was the diction used, not the idea behind the criticism

5:08 AM:      CreeD: http://www.zoorender.com/_galleryv2/G07/Visen_Brnicevic.jpg

5:08 AM:        rsw: oh nigga please

5:09 AM:      CreeD: pretty good job except for the photoshoppy blurring thing

5:09 AM:      dodee: I criticised the same exact things you guys did, but

certain people went out of their way to be outright cocks about it

5:09 AM:        rsw: even if we had said "dodee sir pardon me but i must

disagree my good friend"

5:09 AM:      dodee: "VIOLENTLY unimpressed"

5:09 AM:      CreeD: nod.

5:09 AM:    Ellinas: actually i think that woulda been really funny

5:09 AM:        rsw: you still would have been pissed

5:09 AM:        rsw: oh gee, that's harsh!

5:09 AM:      CreeD: oh hey rich, here's the url you had once

5:09 AM:      CreeD: http://www.zoorender.com/_galleryv2/G07/Robert_Kuczera2.jpg

5:10 AM:      dodee: no, I would have passed you off as ignorant

5:10 AM:        rsw: which you seem to do to anyone other than yourself

5:10 AM:    Ellinas: wow

5:10 AM:      dodee: instead of both ignorant and an asshole

5:10 AM:        rsw: especially! when they so much as utter a word of

disagreement with you

5:10 AM:      CreeD: dodee, rich has a pretty good point here. When people don't

agree with you on something that is pretty obviously subjective, you just go

nuts.

5:11 AM:      dodee: rich, you *always* go out of your way to shit on anything

even remotely related to me

5:11 AM:      CreeD: you can't just say "oh you disagree? why?"

5:11 AM:      CreeD: it's gotta be "you're fucking nuts"

5:11 AM:      dodee: I could paint the fucking mona lisa and you'd say the smile

is fucked up

5:11 AM:        rsw: god forbid i should dare give my opinion

5:11 AM:      dodee: your opinion is ALWAYS crabby

5:11 AM:      dodee: you're the old fucking man that hates the world

5:12 AM:      CreeD: not a photo, but a lot of love in this one -

http://www.zoorender.com/_galleryv2/G08/Ali_Rahimi.jpg

5:12 AM:        rsw: dodee: no i don't. and you just answered why - i can be

pretty snotty and sometimes have high standards for many things, whether or not

i'm a fucking qualified expert. and if asked, i'll answer honestly

5:13 AM:        rsw: so.

5:13 AM:        rsw: you asked a question, i answered it

5:13 AM:      dodee: I didn't ask a question

5:13 AM:      dodee: I didn't say "hey rich, gimme your bitchy rundown of this,

will ya?"

5:13 AM:      CreeD: well, it was kind of inviting SOME comment

5:13 AM:      dodee: I posted a url, said it looked really good and expected

discussion

5:13 AM:        rsw: you may be shocked to learn that i don't conspire to piss

you off

5:13 AM:    Ellinas: man, you guys can really extend shit soooooooo long

5:14 AM:      dodee: instead it was met with trademark bitchery

5:14 AM:      CreeD: ellinas: yeah, even I have to agree and I'm a prime

offender.

5:14 AM:    Ellinas: maybe everybody's doing it on some subconscious level

5:14 AM:    Ellinas: out of boredom

5:14 AM:      dodee: amen

5:14 AM:        rsw: dodee's just up past his bedtime and really cranky

5:14 AM:      dodee: kiss it

5:15 AM: *** Signoff: BMWaway (Ç èׂŸ¨¤”š– È InfoÇv9.23.61È ReleasedÇJuly 13,

2002È ChannelÇ#Excurs)

5:15 AM:      CreeD: nice colors on:

http://www.zoorender.com/_galleryv2/G10/Chen_qingfeng2.jpg

5:16 AM:    Ellinas: i seem to have killed it with my insightful and non-obvious

observation

5:16 AM:      dodee: no, it was obvious.

5:16 AM:    Ellinas: yes, as was my sarcasm

5:16 AM:    Ellinas: or so i thought

5:16 AM:    Ellinas: or could u be sarcastic to!??!

5:16 AM:    Ellinas: too

5:16 AM:      CreeD: ;aff

5:16 AM:      CreeD: GAMES WITHIN GAMES MAN

5:16 AM:      dodee: I just get irritate by "dodee does something, people

comment, rich bitches"

5:16 AM:      CreeD: ITS LIKE THAT MOVIE

5:17 AM:      dodee: lather rinse repeat

5:17 AM:    Ellinas: he's screwin' with my HEAD MAN!

5:17 AM:      CreeD: dodee: if it were just rich I'd prolly assume you were

right. "violently unimpressed" maybe was a bit nosetweaky. but like two others

also made in effect the same comment so .. . it really wasn't personal

5:18 AM:    Ellinas: violently unimpressed is cool

5:18 AM:    Ellinas: the mental picture of that..

5:18 AM:        rsw: fuck YOU dodee

5:18 AM:      CreeD: a snorth that echoes.

5:18 AM:        rsw: i was NOT the only one with the same opinion

5:18 AM:      dodee: and not even that so much as the dogged persecution that

followed

5:18 AM:    Ellinas: haha, we begin again!

5:18 AM:        rsw: get the FUCK off my goddamn back, jesus

5:18 AM:      dodee: I comment about it being done by a renderer one guy wrote,

so I get the 3rd degree for that

5:18 AM:      dodee: rich, how do you fucking like it?

5:19 AM:      CreeD: dodee: dogged persecution is the very defintion of what

happens when someone expresses a non-dodee-conforming opinion

5:19 AM:      dodee: no, I cite reasons

5:19 AM:      CreeD: any one of us would have dropped it if you hadn't been

vehemently determined to make us 'see straight'

5:19 AM:        rsw: what i don't like is being singled out when in fact i'm not

alone

5:19 AM:      dodee: deal with it

5:19 AM:        rsw: as if i'm on some sort of anti-dodee crusade

5:20 AM:      dodee: and I wasn't the only one that was dead set on changing

opinion

5:20 AM:      dodee: were that the case, three other people would have said "ok,

whatever" and went about their business

5:20 AM:      dodee: so dont gimme the "you were the catalyst" speech

5:20 AM:    Ellinas:

http://www.flipcode.com/cgi-bin/msg.cgi?showThread=05-21-2002&forum=iotd&id=-1

5:20 AM:    Ellinas: this scared me

5:21 AM:      CreeD: dodee: you were the first one to make it more personal

though.

5:21 AM:      CreeD: @ dodeeÈ you people are idiots

5:21 AM:      dodee: yeah well.

5:21 AM:        rsw: i made only a few comments of what i thought about the pic.

there was nothing directed at you at all. creed was the one who was dueling with

you on specifics

5:21 AM:      CreeD: Ç@ dodeeÈ no, you posted the "bitch williams translation"

of it

5:21 AM:      dodee: I'm not even saying I'm *right*

5:21 AM:      CreeD: Ç@ dodeeÈ ok, I forgot matt's the 3d expert

5:22 AM:      dodee: I'm saying the same goddamn thing that matt was saying to

unc earlier

5:22 AM:        rsw: exactly, was there ANYTHING in what i said that had even

the slightest whiff of "fuck you, your opinions are crap because you're dodee

and i must crusade against you"? no.

5:22 AM:      dodee: 'watch your damn tone'

5:22 AM:        rsw: no, you're not

5:22 AM:      dodee: yes I am

5:22 AM:      dodee: ESPECIALLY to you

5:22 AM:      dodee: <rsw> "guys! check out this awesome render! it's

photorealistic! it's awesome!" -> "no it's not" -> "well actually i meant the

program is awesome."

5:23 AM:      dodee: yeah, that wasn't targetted

5:23 AM:      dodee: what possible purpose did that serve than trying to make me

look stupid?

5:23 AM:      CreeD: it wasn't trying to make you look dumb so much as look like

an underhanded debater, which we ALL are at various times in varying degrees.

5:24 AM:        rsw: if you can't live with "VIOLENTLY unimpressed" and also

somehow take that personally, tough goddamn shit

5:24 AM:      dodee: of *course* the goddamn renderer was a factor

5:24 AM: *** Moebius^ (~Ryo_Saeba@dsc05.sei-wa-1-36.rasserver.net) has joined

channel #vfhome

5:24 AM:        rsw: dodee: it summed up what you said to a T.

5:24 AM:      dodee: no it didn't rich

5:24 AM:      dodee: you have NO idea what my intent there was

5:24 AM:        rsw: sure it did.

5:24 AM:      dodee: now you're psychic

5:24 AM:      CreeD: yeah aside from violently impressed, all rich said was "no

it's not" and simple 'yes' 'no' type statements, there wasn't any "there goes

dodee doing his stupid dodee shit again"

5:25 AM:      CreeD: which is in marked contrast to to no, you posted the "bitch

williams translation" of it

5:25 AM:      dodee: if I wanted to show off the render for just the render, I

would have a) posted the URL to the pic directly b) posted something from a

RENDERING site

5:25 AM:        rsw: i'm not psychic, i summed up what you actually wrote.

5:25 AM:      dodee: that was a bitchy and skewed

5:25 AM:        rsw: maybe a bit simplistically and a bit playfully, but it

wasn't meant to jab at you

5:25 AM:      dodee: I didn't say "I only meant the renderer was nice"

5:25 AM:        rsw: don't fucking take everything so goddamn personally

5:26 AM:      dodee: oh, now it's "maybe a bit simplistically" when before it

was a summation

5:26 AM:        rsw: you can have a simple summation.

5:26 AM:      dodee: you can also have a skewed summation

5:27 AM:      CreeD: man

5:27 AM:      dodee: oh, it was followed by matt's "lol" because it WASN'T

intended to be a jab. I see.

5:27 AM:      dodee: that makes lots of sense

5:27 AM:      dodee: people frequently laugh at things like that.

5:28 AM:      dodee: at least I'm fucking open about my slams. christ.

5:28 AM:    Ellinas: everybody here is too sensitive

5:28 AM:      CreeD: I don't eben know where that's referencing and am past

caring.

5:28 AM: *** Signoff: DemenT-Wh (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)

5:28 AM:      dodee: your lol directly followed rich's "summary"

5:28 AM:    Ellinas: i've never seen so much quoting from like 2 mins ago

5:28 AM:    Ellinas: in my life

5:28 AM:      dodee: the crowd loved it, you'll have to remember that one

5:29 AM:    Ellinas: analyzing words

5:29 AM:        rsw: it was just for fun ("playful", but it was rooted in what

you actually said), dodee. if you're honestly so mashed up about it on the

inside and are so hurt by it, please seek mental help

5:29 AM:      CreeD: oh that? jesus it's barely in buffer. It was in reply to

[4:29am]Ç Ellinas È doom 3 has jaded me good

5:29 AM:      CreeD: yeesh

5:29 AM:      dodee: I'm in no way deflated, I'm irritated

5:29 AM:        rsw: touuughhhhh shhhiiiit.

5:29 AM:      dodee: little people cant possible deflate me

5:30 AM:      dodee: so go hole up and get outta my face

5:30 AM:    Ellinas: i didnt know you had responded to that

5:30 AM:      CreeD: ellinas: it's an unfortunate convergence of three touchy

people who never ever ever like to lose arguments to one another.

5:30 AM:    Ellinas: so i suppose it's easy to see how dodee could have confused

it

5:30 AM:    Ellinas: it's funny stuff too

5:30 AM:      CreeD: sure, understandable.

5:30 AM:        rsw: fuck off, you're the one who has been crusading the last

fucking 40 minutes

5:30 AM:      dodee: funny, I've kept two of you on your toes

5:31 AM:      dodee: dont talk to me about crusading

5:31 AM:        rsw: you're the one who has been screaming like a baby and

demanding explanations for all EVERY WORD we've said

5:31 AM:      dodee: no, I've been demanding explanations for every bitchy word

you've said, there's a difference

5:31 AM:      dodee: I was explaining this to fishy the other day

5:31 AM:      CreeD: oh boy

5:32 AM:      CreeD: it's that time to sleep.

5:32 AM:      dodee: certain people I take ribbing from, cause I expect from

them and dont have a history of serious bitching with

5:32 AM:      CreeD: I can feel it

5:32 AM:      CreeD: I'm finalllly sleeepy

5:32 AM:      CreeD: one last url I dih

5:32 AM:      CreeD: -dig-

5:32 AM:      CreeD:

http://www.zoorender.com/html/gallery/G40/gallery_Mohammad.htm

5:32 AM:      CreeD: ok have fun guys.

5:32 AM:        rsw: well, we won anyway

5:32 AM:      dodee: har har har

5:33 AM:        rsw: it was good to have it turned back on it, which has been

happening more than usual

5:33 AM:    Ellinas: the reflection of the chain seems too intense

5:33 AM:        rsw: another beatdown for the log page

Log file closed at: 8/27/02 5:33:24 AM