Hi guys,

First got into VF about twelve years ago after seeing VF2 for the first time in Vegas. I was 14/15 and can remember saving up for months to get my hands on a Saturn just to play the home port. I loved the game since it was a more realistic fighter that focused more on timing and strategy rather than rote combos and mashing, like Tekken, etc. Not to mention the beauty of running in 60fps.

When VF3 debuted, I imported a Dreamcast just to play it, but as my friends and I grew older and as "adult" responsibilities took priority, there was less time to sit down with a friend and go at it; and with VF3's lack of a substantial one-player mode, my interest waned as the VF4 and Evolution era completely passed me by.

I want to get back into this game. I say I'm a new player because I never, ever realized how deep this game really is. Reading the posts here, I'm amazed at the amount of knowledge, the level of skill, the "game theoretical" applications - almost like poker's golden rule: "minimize losses, maximize wins" (I love the concept of guaranteed attacks) it takes to become a decent player.

I saw a thread where a new player asked where to start, so I won't rehash any questions addressed in that thread, but what I've gleaned is that the knowledge of "frame data" is the fundamental thing to learn before building your game.

One thing I'm not clear on is the process of executing when you have the advantage. I understand if you have +3 adv. you can perform a "guaranteed" attack of up to 15 frames, but when does the command have to be inputed for the attack to be guaranteed?

It seems reacting in 1/20 of a second is impossible for a human being, especially after your brain processes what move your opponent performed, the no. of frames you have, and then to respond with a specific move that will land. All of this within that time frame. The cognition is mind-blowing.

I know it's possible, but I'm wondering how?

So basically my question is: How do you effectively execute when you have an advantage?

Thanks in advance. And I look forward to being involved in this community.

Execute what?

If I'm guessing correctly...
Usually you want to buffer the next command just before you are out of hit/guard stun (basically just a split second before you can freely move again), if you want to take full advantage of advantage.

If you are talking about move choices... then it's a matter of being familiar with the game, and react relatively quickly (definitely not instantly) with a half planned half guessed reaction.

Alot of people look at Japanese level videos and see some cool sequence of events and believes that they have really good reaction. While this may be true for a very very very small percentage of the player base in Japan... it's mostly a result of experience and overall knowledge.

Basically, just like any fighting game, you simply have to read/breath/live the game, then seek out the best competition you can find, and slowly fine tune your game until you can win consistently.

It's a big case of trial and error unless you have a good source of knowledge where you can learn from other's experiences.

Thanks. That explains a lot. Now I know what the term "buffering" means. That helps a lot.

It seems an effective counter-attack relies a lot on anticipation. For example, you're playing against Lau, and he's conditioned you to block by using the PPPK move, but the next time, he changes it up and throws only two punches, which you block, but since you're anticipating two more moves, you hold block for a few more frames and miss the counter-attack opportunity. Is this where the "guessing game" comes in?

Also, I'm going to pick up EVO because of its comprehensive training mode, before moving on to VF5.

You should stop thinking that you can always do the "perfect counter."

Instead of always trying to defend perfectly, take the initiative to interrupt Lau before he can even begin to apply the guessing game.

Once you get into the habit of lp'ing him out of PPP strings, he will switch it up with things like P->elbow or P->LP. Once he starts doing that, you don't really have to guess anymore.

Remember the game is played by two people, the other guy is trying to outguess you too.

In my opinion, if you;re starting out it would be best to just stick to learning your character's moves and what are the best options in different situations. If you start by looking at frames and stuff its gonna bore the shit out of you. Being able to do consistent max damage combos and things like that is a much better place to start.

Welcome back to VF, midnightpulp

My personal recommendations for someone who has just started committing themselves to learning VF:

1) Mess around with the movelist, get a sense of your character's arsenal.

2) Get very comfortable with the basic attacks: P(G), elbow, low punch, sidekick, all of your character's throws, sweep if your character has any. These basic attacks are likely to give you the most mileage out of any character. When you throw, use the most damaging throw (as long as it's easy for you to use).

3) For a little while, use PK (and any added options out of this your character might have) whenever you block a "big attack." This is your first step towards building a habit of guaranteed attacks. In time, you'll learn the best options, but keep it simple at first and go with PK. You'll eventually maximize those guaranteed opportunities.

4) Learn the easy to do, but high damage combos with your character. This will teach you to maximize your damage better, and you'll be wanting to learn how to setup these combos in battle (it isn't easy).

5) Remember that failure implies that you should defend, success implies that you should attack. It's not always true, but in most cases it is. If you fail to attack or defend, you should then defend. If you succeed in attacking or defending, you should then attack. And don't forget that while defend does imply blocking, it also includes creating space as well as other options.

Again, just my personal recommendation, but I believe that with the above, you will build a decent foundation. And of course, you will build further upon that too.

I wouldn't worry too much about frame data yet. Frames are nice, I'm certainly hooked on them, but in the end they are just a tool to help us interpret what happens in VF. They're a sort of language for theoretical talk of VF, but the context is of frame data is limited. Framedata implies a lot of things and generally does not account for distance, walls, and other factors.

By all means, get to understand what the framedata means and how it should be interpretted, but experience with the game and practice are the biggest factors in improving your VF.

Just keep in mind that there are a lot of amazing players (in Japan) who don't know the frame data much, but they have great experience, execution, adaptability, and "feel" on their side.

Hope to see you around at a gathering or tournament or so ^_^ Again, welcome back to VF.

-Chanchai

Good post.

One of the things I think makes this game so deep/great is the paradox that in the hands of a bad player a characters best option is his worst.

I don't think it's a good idea to play the game as if there is some kind of "best option"

This mindset is one of the reasons why progress is slow for western VF players.

You should try to figure out what the opponent might be doing, and do the thing that you believe will be able to beat it. In many cases, it's not your best option, but correct guesses that will win you matches.

After a few months I got Vf4 evo today and this really feels like the best fighting game ever. Can you guys tell me if VF5 is as good or better then Vf4 evo?


Unlike doa4, tekken5, and soul calibur 3 this game is insanely solid. Lol, I really wish I bought this game years ago.

looks wise its better. the gameplay has been tweaked a little but now VF5 looks like it plays. VF has always played like a next gen fighter compared to other fighting franchises imo.

now with VF5 it has the looks to match. wait for the xbox 360 version though because it will have online play and it will hopefully be based on the updated version C.