Defensive Stance


New move, seems like VF standard . Can be seen at 0:47 in this video


Seems to animate a bit faster now

ws+
New animation, see it at the end of the last round


New command, guess you can no longer decide which way to track. Second hit might come out a bit faster though, see for yourself at 2:12 in this vid


New animation


Animates a bit faster now, as seen at 1:02

+
When you hit this move during combos now, they flip around. ++ still connects afterwards though, but you don't get face down, head forwards okizeme. Watch it at 1:27 in this vid

+
New high punch elbow. Can be seen used as a floater move in a combo in this video at 1:15

+
New special low punch that replaces reversal, can be seen 02:01 in this vid. Gives leg collapse on CH.

+
New move, now a slow long range knee that seems to knock down on CH, see it at 1:17 in this vid

/
This move is not on the movelist, so it might have been removed...

/
Also not on the movelist. Good riddance, I might add.

+
New throw, haven't seen it yet

+
Easier command, down kick no longer guaranteed, but the throw itself does 70 dmg now, see it at 0:36 here

UNKNOWN MOVE
At 1:10 in this video. I have a hunch it's a new +

Offensive Stance


Can go directly into elbow strings now from , Jacky style, check it out at 0:53


New high knee move that gives knockdown from elbow, natural combo. Moving pictures of it at 1:08


New low punch attack, can be seen at 0:47 in this vid.. Looks like it might possibly give something on CH.

+
Command for Takedown grab changed from + to +.


New type of crumble animation on counterhit, seems combos from it gives less damage then VF5. Can be seen at 2:35 here

+
Command for Takedown grab changed from + to +.


New move, no idea what it is. Could be a new command for ws+ since it's not in the command list.

+
Command for Takedown grab changed from + to +.


Command for Takedown hit throw changed from + to +.

+
New shoulder attack, looks like it's quite fast and has decent range. You can see it at 1:10 in this vid (downloadable link)

+
New high punch, don't know what it does on hit yet. Sobers 2 dp according to movelist. 1:31 in this vid is probably it

+
Supposedly has new animation, haven't seen it

+
Now a special high hitthrow, + on hit, as seen at 1:57 in this video

+
New full circular crescent kick, similar to Goh's +. Can be seen at 1:45 in this vid

+
Jumps a bit lower, but also doesn't whiff like before.

+
Haven't confirmed if they've replaced this move in OS too...

Takedown and
New animations. You only get to do ONE move now when in Takedown, but in turn they do more damage. You can see animation at 1:31 here

+
Formerly +, the standalone takedown throw. Has a new and faster animation, doesn't have the reach as before though. Check it out at 1:31

+
New throw, does 50 dmg. See it at 1:52 here

+
New command for wall throw? Very possible considering the command overlap now with the takedown tackle. Maybe low wall as well?

Defensive Move +
Command list now lists this as a mid attack...?

That shoulder attack and + are gonna be a godsend against Lei-fei and Aoi...

Up until now the only attack she could really rely on to beat sabakis at close range was (DS) if I'm not mistaken...

You can also use in both OS and DS since they're both give good dmg on counterhit.

ah yes, I tend to forget about because of Lei's attack that beats out lows, but thats definitely an option.

Updated the format, moves and now also added video links. If someone spots anything, write it here and I'll add it to the first posts.

I'm not a big fan of losing my reversals. The new stuff better be worth it.

A low attack that knocksdown on counter hit...no need for impossibly-hard hit-confirming. I'll take that over a silly midpunch/kick reversal anyday...especially when she can already sabaki those attacks.

It will be different to see vanessa without reversals but her sabakis and counter attacks have always been able to counter those types of quick attacks anyway and Sega saw this and changed her around but I don't see it as a major turn off.

I would rather attack the low attacks and get counter hits than have to wait for it using a reversal as well. This new version of Vanessa should be fun to play regardless.

Vanessa's reversals were (at best) marginally important anyway. Major weakness is that she couldn't reverse elbows, that would've made them a little better, but still not important.

So is still safe on block, yeah?

Thank you for taking the time to format all this Jeneric!!!


The move apparently produces a wall splat as can be seen in sanchan's 2008-7-23_23_29_EILEEN_vs_VANESSA vid (0:45) allowing for a decent wall combo

If i'm allowed to take a wild guess, since the new OS shoulder seems to also produce the same kind of knockdown i suppose it will produce the same kind of wall splat. Continuing on the same wild guess i'd say this means the old leg bomber remains for OS and hasn't been replaced with the new knee.

Thanks for that Jeneric!
There is a mistake in OS , add another please, before the (where you noticed there is an input change for TKD)

- OS
I think the move used to be + as it says you can continue with series

- OS +(hit)+ & +(counter hit)+
command changed for TKD, used to be +

Takedown , , +
Just like you wrote, they are one hit commands now. Note that the one is (-1DP).

I was going to correct and add some things, however, I'm unable to edit the posts now for some reason.

Editing time has been reduced to 8 hours after original post was made. If you have changes you want to be made in original post, you can PM one of the moderators and they can copy, paste, make changes, etc if needed. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Myke reduced edit post timeframe to 8hours or so in response to certain antics. If you want to post changes, go ahead & a mod can move them to the first post

They took away in OS. I was really falling in love with that move.

I totally agree with Chefboy; i am using heavy impact almost exclusively from OS myself, given that DS has the almighty shadow slicer. It feels weird the move is being taken out from the stance it's more useful for

BTW, the same could be said for Leg Bomber: the move is not that frequently used from OS since there's the HAWK knee if you want to jump & crush a low. So it kinda feels weird that they are replacing the move from DS, the stance that actually uses leg bomber

Leg bomber is useful in OS...if you happen to launch someone on a wall with it. It's the only way Vanessa is gonna get double-triple rebounces on anyone. XD

Ok..so maybe it's not useful...

Nevermind leg bomber - the new shoulder ram from OS *does* give wall splat like i guessed! Check out acebreaker's newest vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOLKR_-2-To

Hate to double post but something tells me this is the reason leg bomber is getting replaced: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glZY1iwRCyo

...it does have a funky hitbox doesn't it?

I think Leg Bomber is getting replaced because it's a crappy and ugly move.

I like that they're trying to make previously universal moves different for DS and OS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWPWQ3PmYNs&fmt=18

Vanessa's new DS + and new Takedown animation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANoIuOg6zKs&fmt=18

Hmm, OS + is now special high, yet is here used to whiff punish a crouching move.

Also observe some of the "wall=half your lifebar" combos that are seemingly universal now in R...

Does the new throw remind anyone else of the OS + Leg Crush Hold hit throw or is it just me?


What's also amazing is how simple is the inputs for this 93 dmg OS wall combo: wall stagger +,+,+,+. That's 4 forward-forward motions and one diagonal. Maybe the last hit connects only because there's an octagonal wall, still it almost makes me feel Akira deserves his 100-ish wall combo damage Three cheers for version R and vane's newfound wall game!

From Sept Arcadia issue,


6K DS longer range, easier to use now
66K DS reduced range
1P DS reduced range. Cant kill off special mids anymore.
KK DS Powered up. Used to be K2K or K8K I presume. 2nd Kick is a full circular special high.

Removed some of hold G commands, reversals and low P sabaki.

OS
4K6 Dont really understand what they are saying. maybe someone can help.
43P+K Half circular special high hit throw.


New Moves
DS PK Punch kick duh.
DS 4P+K High elbow. Elbow class speed. Counter = float. Keeps opponent in the air if u used it during air combo.
DS 1P+K Special low. On guard u can do WS P which beats elbow. CH > Big down attack guaranteed. Didnt mention how to combo.
DS 1K+G Long distance knee. NH down. Powerful strong good at mid range. Good for wall, etc. Basically really good-_-;
OS 6PK Same as jacky's 6PK. Can access from PP.
OS 1P Can avoid high attacks. half circular low. On Guard cant punish.
OS K+G Full cicular basically. On Hit side turn.

I might be wrong on some translation. Dont trust me completely

Danny nagged at me to post this

PS: There is a command list booklet included with Arcadia. Havent gone through it yet.

Why does it sadden you to post the info? I'm sure the Vanessa players appreciate your efforts. Thanks for sharing!

Because its Danny :P

Any idea which ones? I leave for Japan in a week and this would be handy to know!

G9P, G3P

basically they removed the shitty ones.

I actually used those quite often, they were good. But that's the case. They could evade even a throw, and timed well those were too powerful IMO. All in all good riddance I gues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5a6H14uyHI&fmt=18

1:43 Vanessa got a mach breaker too. I assume the command is +

I'm diggin how Van's style seems more aggressive in R. No more g slicer and runaway mid kick bs I hope.

I think I remember seeing a vid where the new 4K6 was used, it seems that now doing 4K6 will do the full 4K animation before going in IS not just canceling it like in VF5. Kind of like OS 3K6.

That makes sense now! Thanks!

Don't have much time, but some quick observations:

DS + is stupid good. One people get used to the new stuff they're not going to miss the reversals.

A lot of the new OS stuff is really combo-oriented. One combo I saw used against lightweights by Morimoto using the new bodycheck-style strike is:

, + , , , , +

He made a movie featuring this, so I'll ask him for it and upload it when I get a chance.

Also, a cosmetic note: for those who prefer Vane's VF4 look, one of the new items for costume A is increased muscle definition. Hooray!

LOL, that WON'T be me!

Looking forward to see Morimoto doing that combo!

Awesome. The old VF4 1P outfit, blacker then black skin and increased muscle definition. My man Van is back.

There better not be any irrational censoring in the western version of the game this time

Also i've noticed in this vid acebreaker follows up his DS with (rebounce) . I'm positive i've never seen somebody try that in VF5 - does it work, is it Goh specific or is it just new?

DS + 's new animation can be seen here (1:30). Hella violent

Also check out the combo the vanessa player uses to finish the game: OS hit wall splat refloat against the wall floor scrape! Hurray for the 76 dmg elbow!

Well, the only produced wall splat because the elbow was blocked and the followup was CH. If the Van had hit the elbow and then there wouldn't be a wall splat, so there's no 76 dmg elbow

Oooooh, thanks for the clarification, next time i should triple-check vids before posting You are most definetly right: indeed the first move was blocked and the wall combo is a result of the second move being a counterhit. In which case 76 is pretty low i guess, the move being throw counterable.

I guess i was in a state of shock over the new grand spike animation when i posted the vid

I keep on meaning to write more here, since I've got a full command list for Vanessa in VF5R, and a few more impressions, but banging out a command list takes a lot more work than you'd think... especially one as large as Vanessa's. (plus, I've got plenty of actual people-pay-me-money writing work to worry about right now...) Maybe I should just go through and list all the stuff that's changed from Ver. C.

Oh yeah, I forget if it's been mentioned already, but all of the 270 throws are now semicircular commands. The damage has been reduced too, IIRC... I think 70 pts for Heaven's Gate?

I also found a site for checking out the new Vanessa VF5R items, as well as those for all the game's other characters... in Japanese. If you want to play around with it, go to:

http://buga.chew.jp/vfitem/

Looks like Sega has a sense of humor - one of Vanessa's new "skin" options is the glossy, oiled-up VF4 PS2 look!

AFAIK here's the first vid featuring it

...i so wish there were a heart or a "lovesick" emoticon on this board

Don't worry about transcribing the command list, it would only give us a reason to nag anyway

EDIT: hey that site *is* very useful. In addition to the skintone there's this new item as well



There's a bunch of nendoroids too but the FLAMETHROWER tops everything

What's that amazing punch in 1:49 of this vid? It seems the vanessa player is inputting but i supose that's the new + and my eyes are not fast enough to notice the being pressed, right?

Btw, in the latest acebreaker vid at 2:46 you can see vanessa's OS + jump over lows as usual

It's + aka Mach Breaker

At 1:10 of this vid the vanessa player does DS and then fuzzies under a punch - can it be they lowered the frames of that move from -8 on block to -6?

Nice Erdraug, I'm glad they included muscle-tone to make her look more athletic/threatening...cause I was afraid that Van's new R items would include:


(@.@;)

btw, great find Zero-chan!!!

Hahaha i hate you too man now excuse me while i bleach my brain

If you are referring to the fact that the player quite obviously tried fuzzying: dunno.

If you are referring to the fact that Vane was able to duck a jab when it's not guaranteed: of course she could. Throws excluded you can always crouch under high attacks as long as they aren't guaranteed.

You can fuzzy under standing P on -6 situations now.

In VF5, you cant do that. You will get hit by standing P.

This is part of VF5R's system changes. It is stated in the recent arcadia magazine.

CD fuzzy under jab, then? I guess that's kind of nice change. Do you know if it works that way even against 10 frame jabs?

There are no more 10f jabs, only 11 and 12.

Geez, I'm outdated.. I didn't know that either.

Damn. I may have actually preferred 10 and 11f punches than 11 and 12... Anyways this makes fuzzy bit stronger again..

As can bee seen at 1:31 of acebreaker's latest vid, OS + , doesn't knock down anymore

Fair enough i guess, it's practically i new move.

Works on all highs. Doesnt matter what frame. It can be a 9 frame punch for all it matters. It will never hit someone who enters CD fuzzy. Unless it is guaranteed of cos.

WOW! WOW! WOW! Your pretentious demeanor is fucking "HOT" Paris Hilton, watch out! Zero-Chan, has a 9 to 5!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k40TGtwLDyU (20:19) shouldn't + have clashed? Has something changed? Did they just made it faster? 'Cause in VF5, the move being so slow, i have it clash in situations like these.

So lights and mids get 11 and heavy middle and heavy get 12?? I thought being a light weight was all about p and speed? I guess they need to take this away too. Wow, I am simply dumbfounded at the direction vf is going now.

YES!!!!

This is possibly the best thing ever!



Trolling is bad, mmmkay.

Come on, Tim, they fixed Sarah already and made her super strong. You want 10f jabs too???
I mean, she's not Dural and Shun strong but

So does anyone know what frames is Vanessa after her new DS string connects? (I suppose it's a natural combo but) if it leaves her at at least +3 that would mean her could beat low punches. Unfortunately i don't remember acebreaker pressing the attack after DS pk (yet) so i'm worried that it might leave vane at negative frames on hit sort of like lion's or lau's pk

I'll trade you 10 frame jab for making moves slower and recovery time slower for heavier weights. There is no reason a heavy should outclass a light or even come close in the speed department EVER. Now mids are in the same class as light?..lol. What do they hope to gain from subtracting one of vf's basic core's from the game? Smells like steaming pile o dung to me, but I digress. The fact of the matter is light's power WAS their P and heavies was the damage potential. Everyone inbetween these classes benefited one way or the other, so basic balance could exsist. Now, if this is true about p going only to two classses and everyone likes the idea of 10 frame p gone, then let's take away high damage for heavier classes, yes? To me it only seems like a fair deal. Having said that, you can see that damage isn't taken away, but merely boosted in this version. Oh well, looks to me they are trying something "NEW" and avoiding the old formula, so they can stay afloat in these years of the dying arcades.

Sorry about the trolling everyone...
Now back to our regular broadcasting...

Look at Jeff's basic combos. And a MC/mC isn't 41/37 damage anymore.

stfu

Since this is a vanessa thread i'd like to state for the record that no more 10 f-punches means vane's DS becomes even more unique! Theoretically speaking she can begin using it from -2!

...Unless they changed the move back to 10 frames?

Hmm, once again after watching intently VF5R vids for these past months i'm getting more and more eager for some frame data, even if it's just for theory-fighting

I hope they changed it back to 10f...or maybe even removed it, the move is pretty stupid.

It certainly has it's uses though, specially against some types of playstyles: flamingo happy Sarah, in-your-face Brad, zenk-happy eileen, RD-happy Blaze, abare Lau, probably more. Plus it can punish some unpunishable stuff like akira's shoulder ram! It can even double as a taunt, making up for DS vane's lack of ~ dancing Why exactly do you think it's pretty stupid?

IDK...it kills > flow charts.

That's pretty nice...

That is why it's stupid, it interrupts too much. It's not like she doesn't have enough moves to kill opponent's offense anyway.

Oh. Well, yes, that's a legitimate concern i guess. We'll see if it gets removed then

For the time being, a new float from acebreaker's latest vid:

DS + CH foot crumple (2:53) > low punch rebounce > (60)

...might only work on lightweights though.

Acebreaker also pulls out a flashy alternate combo for vane's tiger knee:

OS + CH float (0:48) > , > DS + > + (87)

...although i fail to see the point, a regular OS knee-kick-jab-hook would have dished out more damage i think, no?

Been looking at the main VF5R vids thread and stumbled upon a new OS wall combo found Sharkvanessa's youtube channel:

OS wall stagger + wall splat + 2nd wallsplat wall hit slam + (112)

I supose it only works on lightweights, still scary though.

I was wondering, the new OS is noted as being semicircular, right? If it covers vanessa's front that would mean she now has 2 semicircular lows that combo on CH covering different directions. And judging by the way it animated in this vid (0:48) i think it does Can we somehow confirm this?

The new OS + , apparently crouch staggers, as can be seen @ 0:34 of this new acebreaker vid.

I've been looking at the command list again and noticed that Intruder Step lost the followup. A reasonable change if you ask me.

Also, there's -1 DP on the second part of front sleeper hit-throw, giving more incentive to actually try and nail the multipart. In fact, there's generally more moves that sober, i don't know if that's just vanessa or a generalized tendency

More importantly though, where is OS WR ? I know the WR had its input replaced but i can't seem to find the WR punch. Where is DS WR ? Where are the hand holds?

On the positive side, as can be seen in this vid, it seems her "easy mode" floats after back charge kick became even easier DS gets > and OS gets > . And since they work against Jeffry they should work against anyone, right?

Lol, that's awesome. Thanks erdraug. It seems easier to juggle with her now. Universal weight (except Taka) combos, that's what I needed

Well, to be honest, she has those already, after back charge kick DS gets , and OS gets + , they just do significantly less than 60 and 72 damage and if the opponent performs exact recovery he can recover at the same time as vanessa denying her any wakeup pressure.

Hmm, looking back at my post i realize i've worded it wrong, i meant to say "easy mode" floats got upped in damage, just like everything seeems to in VF5R.

Apparently the redesigned DS + can be used after boomerang hook to slam the opponent and pull some fancy combos

yo uhhhh
has anyone noticed that Vanessa changed into OS magically in the middle of the boomerang hook combo...

+>+>>

This can mean either two things...

1.5R allows Vanessa to buffer stance changes during moves for instant stance switching!!!!!! (Extremely unlikely, and would cause massive head explosions)

or

2.The new + switches stances.

Chef, what part of the video are you talking about when she changes stances during that combo? I don't think I saw it.

It's neither. She doesn't go into OS.

What she does is:
+, +, and finishes with one of 3 things:

DS +++
DS ++
DS

As You can see, all of those are from DS, two of them finish with a knee (which might have confused You).

Still a nice vid, Thanks.

That makes so much sense. I don't know why I assumed she was doing (OS)

Maybe because they look very similar, which is natural since they both are mid punch > knee strings I went back to double check though, if she were able to buffer stance changes it would be indeed awesome (and kind of imba i admit).

On another note, i think her neutral throw has been redesigned as it appears to throw the opponent a tad further away now. Maybe they incorporated this change so that taka can have his own animation, using the old one one which lands opponents right next to vane. Anyway, all that to speculate that vanessa won't be at the same kind of horrible disadvantage after the opponent techrolls canyon dive anymore

It also apparently rings out over the small step found at Aoi's stage I wouldn't be surprised if Hell's Gate rings out forward over the step too.

While surfing on the zoome wave i stulbled across this zoome video and a couple of things occured to me:

* Vanessa's new jacky-style OS string seems to combo on Taka (0:39) just like Reno complained that Jacky's string does. VERY useful thing to know.

* DS sabaki hitbox is STILL bigger its actual damage hitbox (1:03)

* Taka has indeed his own + animation. My suspicions that he also has a better advantage on techroll are somewhat confirmed as the taka player promptly attacks after techrolling and the vanessa player seems to be anticipating this and evades (2:14).

Vanessa is ALWAYS at massive disadv (-8 at least) when an opponent tech rolls her neutral +, so nothing new. Actually it looked like she recovers faster against Taka.

I just thought that, given the new VF5R animation, she'd be at less of a disadvantage, something like -5 or -6, something in the fuzzy range, keeping her old -8 or more against taka. But anyway, we won't know the details until we get our hands on the game At least we all agree that taka's got his own animation

Btw, looks like it's hard to float him after parrying kick

PS: still watching the same zoome channel, in this vid (1:23) either the vanessa player messed up on his timing or OS > + rebounce combos don't work anymore Which would be normal i guess, since the move is now high i mean, still though.

Here's acebreaker's report on VF5R Vanessa version B changes (nice to see he's still active btw, i was starting to fear the worst since it's been almost two months since he last uploaded a replay to youtube)

Using online translation tools, here's some of what i think are notable gameplay changes :

throw > stomp not necessarily guaranteed
+ something about air hits
DS HCF throw dropped to 57 damage (from 62)
DS apparently advances forward and something about hitting like Aoi's ff+k. However it's mentioned as 8 or 9K

If anybody wants to fully translate acebreaker's commentary your effort will be highly appreciated

It bounds in combos, as seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLbf-fiXJlQ&feature=channel_page

Awesome changes to the animation! I jizzed in my pants thanks to You Jeneric

Not trolling, some good points here. The 'speed' of lightweights comes from more than just basic punch though.

^
Wrong thread?

I just love Vanessa's new grab move for when she tackles you. She really beats you into the ground. The game has kind of sped up one of her moves.

Dunno if this is old news but
http://zoome.jp/fernandio/diary/24
around 1:10 K+G does not G-stagger anymore.

Yep, and it also seems to come out quicker.
Around 1:20 you can also see some kind of low backhand attack(looks like it's from crouching, not sure though). Is that new?
Also, what's quite important is a new sound when changing stances. I guess it's also for the opponent to know what's going on... (unless there are Vanessa players that get lost in all the 2 stances )

http://zoome.jp/vf_kao/diary/13/ features the new

And a pink coat with matching black shirt with a rose petal pattern on it, the kind venerable secretaries wear

Anyway, the move definetly has range now, no more whiffing when trying to hit Aoi out of yin yang The vanessa player botched his combo afterwards though.

Here's another vid where it's used: http://zoome.jp/kartika/diary/143 but it doesn't connect unfortunately. Is it me or the move is slightly faster

Anyway the second vid might be worth watching because the new + allows for a decent rebounce > combo. Plus there's some Lei Fei wall action going on.

In case it hasn't already been mentioned here: she still has her DS punch grab.

2:25

Acebreaker has posted even more ver. B analysis in his blog. there's a ton of info but of course i had major trouble understanding it. One thing that caugt my mind is that OS or is now guaranteed on normal hit and something about OS being slower I'd rather he'd upload some vids but hey, there's also some damage comparison of version B floats, and who knows, he might be changing ISPs, or maybe he set up a zoome channel we haven't been able to track down yet

While watching this vid mentioned in the VF5R Brad thread i realised DS has been reanimated back to what seems its VF4 incarnation one can only hope the frames have followed suit

After a 4 month hiatus acebreaker has taken to posting vids again!

Here's what i've gathered by watching his 3 new vids so far:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMo432RKU9E vs Wolf

OS , natural combo
OS reanimated once again
OS beat a throw from negative frames, is that normal? also, can vanessa follow up a normal hit on wolf with > , , in VF5 vanilla?
OS back charge kick > low punch rebounce > , , but we've already seen that vs a Jeffry iirc, must be a heavyweight combo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI2vuk0AgeI&fmt=18 (vs CPU)

OS CH > > , , , 86 damage
OS near the wall > punch rebounce > , , 64 damage
DS while rising CH stagger > > > > , , 90 damage this is definetly a lightweight-only float
OS > low punch rebounce > , , , 61 dmg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-K5x8F2qjg (vs Kage)

DS NH > , > , , 5 hit combo for 68 damage.
OS CH > low punch rebounce > , slam > , 70 dmg, not bad!
The reanimated DS appears to have a longer reach.
Reanimated OS HCF throw but you might have noticed that already from SEGA's website.

Just wrote down all the frame data from Kasshins latest Vanessa testing vid, here's some noteworthy changes in R

DS

-4 on block

is now -15 on guard instead of -13

is back to 10 frames exe again

is -6 instead of -4, now you have to use CD to fuzzy

is -7 instead of -9

now gives +4 frame adv on block instead of just +1

is now -15 on guard instead of -14

is now -6 on guard instead of -5

is now -9 on guard instead of -5, can now be executed with as well and jump forward in the animation.

+ A new move, high 14 frame elbow, -2 on block. Has anyone seen this used outside of combos? If it knocks down it will be a very good punisher.

+ is an entirely new move, now -4 on block instead of giving frame adv.

+ 22 fr special low poke that ducks and is only -1 on block! Some theorising: Since WS generally does more damage then most characters elbows, if Vanessa do + and it gets blocked, Vanessa's WS should beat their elbow and give a stagger! This would force the opponent to have to use or to beat Vanessa out of WS creating a very favorable situation for Vanessa. If I remember correctly this also gives a small combo opportunity on counter hit (or maybe that was the new similar low punch in OS?)

+ is now -6 on block instead of -5

is now +4 on block instead of guardbreaking. Farewell dear scrub abuse.

+ is now -8 on guard instead of -6, granting true nitaku

+ is now -8 on guard instead of -6, granting true nitaku

+ is now -8 on guard instead of -6, granting true nitaku

+ New mid knee that knocks down and wall splats, just 16 frame exe (!) and just -6 on block.

or is now -13 in both directions, instead of -12 in one direction and -11 in the other.


OS

mid to high Elbow knockdown string a la Jacky, also -16 like Jacky's now is. Seems they wanted to take away guaranteed knee class launchers on block on this in R Ver B. Oh, well, people need to start ducking them anyway. All her elbow moves are now able to be executed after as well (again, just like Jacky) and has the exact same stats as her usual elbow moves.

------------------------------------------------------------


Kasshin didn't finish the whole movelist in the one vid, hopefully he does more. All in all very reasonable changes that makes Vanessa less safe, taking away some unnecessary cheese (like her midkick inexplicably being -5 instead of the standard -6 for example). Her punishment in DS actually doesn't suck now with , + and even + for +16 situations.

Having strings as well as a knockdown followup to elbow is such a sick boost to OS.

On the other hand OS f+p is now -4

Looks like OS has become the safe, poking stance whereas DS is the stance that has to gamble and play agressively. Are there any no fuzzy guard safe moves besides WR p? I fear that i was right to call the stances "default" and "other" all along, the names "defensive" and "offensive" certainly seem to be attributed arbitrarily between versions

Oh, BTW intruder hook seems to be -13 now At least f,f+k seems to wall splat.

EDIT: Crap, OS is now -6

-6 is still fuzzy safe.....and in R you can't get jabbed when doing cd fuzzy.

I don't see any major difference in the role between stances in R. Both have been improved in vital areas while receiving necessary nerfs.

Don't pay attention to me Jeneric, i'm just a handicapped pad player, il stick with the easy mode OS and leave experienced players such as yourself with the stance that has to enter for every poke.

BTW while watching old vids on my laptop (no internet in the countryside ) i've stumbled upon an old vid against fernadio where DS b,f+p+k appears to sabaki sarah's f,f+k+g! Could we double check and see if the move has indeed gained the ability to sabaki HK?

Watching the latest acebreaker vids i realized Bunker Buster (OS ) is special high! While still retaining its +2 on block

Also wtf happened somehow aoi's tenchi didn't counter charged DS df+k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1FgWnzs1YM

Apparently, due to the new head crumple animation, no longer connects after Death Scythe, as can be seen here - the string now has zero applications

Also am i missing something in this vid or did vanessa get a float after OS Nevermind, Sarah went for a somersault, that's why she floatedinthe air, my bad

In retrospect it might be Death Scythe's fault altogether - the new head crumple animation pretty much causes all combos to whiff in a seemingly random fashion (I've seen acebreaker whiff with ender too ).

Still, i'm not complaining, i'm sure Jeneric will provide detailed gameplay insights, with his first hand experience from Japan i don't care that much about frames and damage since vanessa's animations never looked better

Here's a video featuring an unorthodox wall combo:

DS WS CH staggers the opponent
DS (new) wall splat
DS (new)
DS
manual stance change
OS
OS floor scrape
OS foot stomp

I suppose the foot stomp is not guaranteed, the f,f+k probably not either, but the df+k,k looked like it was

A year and a half later, it still jumps over lows

Hell, it still jumps over shoulder ram

Anyway, some more weirdness, DS flying over/through akira @1:02 in this vid, must have something to do with getting up invulnerability or something.

Here's another combo with a manual stance change :

DS > > OS