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(kod) -
2008-10-22 14:10
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(csnape) -
2008-09-26 06:31
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(csnape) -
2008-09-25 07:00
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(csnape) -
2008-09-25 05:30
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#225881 - 2008-09-28 09:43
Playing it Safe?
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GinkoSan
New Challenger
Registered: 2008-09-14
XBL GT: GinkoSan
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After I started only going to the hardest arcade in the Quest mode, I noticed that the only thing that got harder, was that the AI learned how to block and punish.
It seems that the AI will punish me every single time I use slow moves.
Take my Kage, I can do   or  or and I will always be punished. I may have missed something about the mechanics here. If those moves can be punished every time, why the hell use them? For combos and juggles only?
Looking at it theoretically, it seems that I would be able to beat anyone (bots mind you, I'm still a newbie) if I would just restrict myself to frame advantages and safe moves. Only using instead of betting on that kick, for example. It would drastically cut down my movelist, and the pace of the game, but what exactly is there to stop me?
I have long been looking at why there is such a difference between when I feel beaten fairly and when not. I could think this is it, but I won't believe it's so simple.
So, why even use unsafe moves? Obviously unpredictability can only go so far.
_________________________
FCFAFighting, Racing, and more. Xbox Live Clan.
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#226097 - 2008-09-29 17:20
Re: Playing it Safe?
[Re: akai]
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GinkoSan
New Challenger
Registered: 2008-09-14
XBL GT: GinkoSan
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#226099 - 2008-09-29 17:27
Re: Playing it Safe?
[Re: GinkoSan]
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Plague
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 2002-01-28
Loc: Riverside, California
XBL GT: HowBoutSmPLAGUE
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Some strings aren't guaranteed. That's OK, though. The idea is to delay between hits to throw off your opponents timing. You can also stop in the middle and throw. You can also cancel and start over again, etc. All involve some risk and that's part of what makes this game interesting.
_________________________
Graphic design, copywriting, website design, and advertising. "You could say my goal is to see one of my quotes in someone's signature." - Jemun
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#226100 - 2008-09-29 17:37
Re: Playing it Safe?
[Re: akai]
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seven5suited
Enthusiast
Registered: 2007-11-29
Loc: NYC
XBL GT: seven5suited
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VF becomes great beginning at exactly the point you are talking about. I can't explain the whole thing in one post, because, basically, the majority of this site is devoted to explaining it.
The AI simulates people's thinking (thus the name), so it can be "tricked" even though, technically, if it wanted to, it could deliver the proper response to whatever you do and whoop your ass. Trust me when I say "play people."
Play people.
Anything you do has a proper reaction to it that will hurt you. So does inaction. The same goes for your opponent. Generally finishing a string is terrible, but there are situations in which it's appropriate.
One example: if you hit when it's guaranteed, what next? It depends on what you think your opponent will do. Does the guy low punch too much? Finish it with . Is the guy blocking a lot? do , throw. In fact, you don't even have to finish the . Do , throw or , + +  into stance.
Be safe and tricky and you'll do well. No one has ever accused Kage of being without safe and effective moves. 
Edited by seven5suited (2008-09-29 17:40)
_________________________
* You were kicked from #vfhome by Plague-CA (seven5)
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#226122 - 2008-09-29 19:10
Re: Playing it Safe?
[Re: seven5suited]
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GinkoSan
New Challenger
Registered: 2008-09-14
XBL GT: GinkoSan
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Awesome. So far the game is actually able to introduce me to much more technical based fighting without too much harm. I mean I can learn this stuff with the proper time. It's not trial and error stuff.
Still a bit confused however, why even bother delaying the kick in , I mean, if he is high blocking, he is high blocking, no matter when my kick comes in. Are we already talking in the territory of tricking your enemy into thinking he can throw a hit?
Well, I guess, If I delay it long enough for him to think that a completely new low attack, or a throw is coming, I would be able to get him. But wouldn't a seasoned player be able to calculate when the string is still going, and when I start over? Or can you -cancel absolutely everything?
_________________________
FCFAFighting, Racing, and more. Xbox Live Clan.
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#226134 - 2008-09-29 20:09
Re: Playing it Safe?
[Re: GinkoSan]
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Slide
Addict
Registered: 2007-03-18
XBL GT: ACTION KUNGFU
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Awesome. So far the game is actually able to introduce me to much more technical based fighting without too much harm. I mean I can learn this stuff with the proper time. It's not trial and error stuff. Still a bit confused however, why even bother delaying the kick in , I mean, if he is high blocking, he is high blocking, no matter when my kick comes in. Are we already talking in the territory of tricking your enemy into thinking he can throw a hit? Well, I guess, If I delay it long enough for him to think that a completely new low attack, or a throw is coming, I would be able to get him. But wouldn't a seasoned player be able to calculate when the string is still going, and when I start over? Or can you -cancel absolutely everything?
Actually stuff like this works best and properly, on a seasoned player, because they know the properties of the string and what it is about. Kage PPKK is HIGH HIGH HIGH LOW.
The seasoned player knows that after guarding PP, crouching takes care of KK. The opponent can crouch the first K and hit Kage, guard the second K and punish Kage, etc etc.
Against someone that doesnt know how to play or is unaware of PPKK, PPKK as much as you like. Why? Because either, it'll KEEP hitting, or they won't punish the last K so you get out of jail.
Against someone that knows the move though, now you can have some actual fun. Try PP then stop it, then do a mid(which would hit them crouching looking for K). PP stop, then throw(which would get them trying to evade the first K or guarding it). PP stop, evade - dash cancel(against someone that is aggressive). PP stop, fuzzy(when you're conservative and unsure). PP stop, 9K+G(if you're feeling confident the opponent is trying to throw you for evading after PP) And many other things, based on what you know is possible.
Play on the knowledge. Otherwise, against someone that doesn't have a clue, you can just bore yourself with using PPKK over and over.
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#226135 - 2008-09-29 20:09
Re: Playing it Safe?
[Re: GinkoSan]
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Plague
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 2002-01-28
Loc: Riverside, California
XBL GT: HowBoutSmPLAGUE
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...Are we already talking in the territory of tricking your enemy into thinking he can throw a hit?
Well, I guess, If I delay it long enough for him to think that a completely new low attack, or a throw is coming, I would be able to get him. But wouldn't a seasoned player be able to calculate when the string is still going, and when I start over?
The gist of it all is that you're mixing your offense. Here's an example: If you do your ppkk string and your opponent blocks and punishes accordingly, next time do pp throw or p throw. If the person is quick to notice the change, he may expect a throw the next time you start your string. If he tries punching you in the face, and you continue your string instead of doing the throw, the next move of your string will likely hit as MC.
Watch Betabow's Lau in action on this vid from my house. This fight is full of delayed strings, half of one string followed by an unrelated move designed to punish a response to the string, and more. It's upper-echelon stuff and it's extremely visible.
_________________________
Graphic design, copywriting, website design, and advertising. "You could say my goal is to see one of my quotes in someone's signature." - Jemun
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#226284 - 2008-09-30 13:00
Re: Playing it Safe?
[Re: Plague]
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GinkoSan
New Challenger
Registered: 2008-09-14
XBL GT: GinkoSan
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Thanks all. I think I have the general idea. Too bad online activity is low, and local competition doesn't exist in Denmark.
Your help was appreciated.
_________________________
FCFAFighting, Racing, and more. Xbox Live Clan.
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