European ButtonCzech - online exhibitions of old continent players

I just watched P_Rep vs Strider. Some comments;

I've been known as a 9K specialist. I throw it a lot relative to most other players, but i'd at least like to think i have a reason for doing so most of the time. You guys were both throwing it out there like it's advantage on block.

If you're going to throw something that might get you killed there should be a reason. With 9K(or 6K for Jeff) it's usually that you're at +5 and certain the opponent will attack, or that you're at a disadvantage and guess that they'll throw (or waste frames and attack like a certain Lion player here ). Waaay to much "eff it. Yolo launcher!!" going on. There should be a plan or reason for every move and this goes double for the big punishable ones.

If you're at adv and feel the opponent might abare both characters probably have better options anyway. For Vanessa will probably net you more damage against Jeff on CH than 9K as you wasn't finishing the 9K combo. It's a half circular special high, so covers abare and one of the 2 evade options. Most importantly, it's SAFE ON BLOCK.

For Jeff, he has 3P+K and 2K. Both SAFE. If you're at advantage, there is a good chance that your opponent will block or evade. Why take the risk of a massive move that has only a small chance of connecting?

Now i said might get you killed because there was very little actual punishment going on. For Vanessa against big launchers the best option is 6P+K into combo in OS and in DS all you get is PK. For Jeff we should be seeing Knee push bottle cut!! (4KP - i miss the out announcer). At the bare minimum you should both be using PK to punish and NOT THROWS. PK will guarantee you the straight mixup between for Van and for Jeff and throws (I'm ignoring 11f jab on purpose).

The idea is to build an offensive flow. If you have advantage/initiative, you want to keep it and continually use it to force the opponent to guess. Incorrect guesses should do them damage and you can make it harder for them to guess correctly by playing the frames. Of course if they guess right, in most cases it's then their advantage and your turn to guess. That's VF. Recognising when it's your advantage is also very important. I'd recommend that you both watch some of your replays in game with the frame display on.

The trick, is to clog up the possible defensive options and force them into something which you can then counter or at least not be punished for trying. The basic options for the defender are block, sidestep and attack. If you use a 17f linear attack at +2 or +3 block, sidestep and a fast attack (2P) all win. In that situation (small advantage), an elbow makes far more sense. If the opponent guesses right and blocks or sidesteps then their reward is minimal. Neither of you elbowed nearly enough. Fastest mid has got to be the basis of your play, otherwise there is nothing left to fall back on.

Now for player specific stuff. P_ReP; You land stuff and then do nothing. Seriously learn some combos and (this is the important part), practice situations where you might be able to put those combos into practice. The record mode great for this.
I mentioned frames and you don't really seem to know Vanessas. There are some situations where you attacked at huge risk. Your use of Intercept position comes to mind. After your intercept K on block, you're at a small advantage. It's not actually enough to make another INT K uninterruptable so you're basically asking to be CH. If you're CH in the middle of an attack you go much higher than normal, so be careful.

On the other hand, landing INT K on NH is +7. The opponent can only interrupt either INT K or INT 2K with 2P and Van has a sabaki there that beats 2P guaranteeing launcher. If it lands CH you have enough frames where you get a weak mixup between K and 2K, mid and low (opponent can still evade - which you can counter with throw). I can't remember you ever using 2K though.

Strider;
The combos thing is an issue for you as well, though i was glad to see the standard BnB combo after . For you, i think one of your major problems lies in recognising advantage and disadvantage and responding appropriately. What worked for me was to catagorise situations as tiny, small, medium, big and guaranteed.

Tiny was neutral and +/-1f. 2P is usually the most sensible attack and if you're CH it'll be by another 2P or a move that specifically beats 2P. If you want to defend, fuzzy is good.

Small is +/- 2 or 3f. most characters should use a 14f mid here when you have the opponent blocking or sidestepping, you can throw. Defenders should fuzzy guard. If you evade you'll lose to throw, but a CD cancel can take you under slower high full/half circular attacks. Someone throwing a jab and having it blocked will be here.

Medium is +/-4 or 5f. 14f mid is still a very good option, but some character also have enough frames to use a stronger attack (hopefully mid or special high) that will land CH if the defender attacks. On the defensive side of things, if you fuzzy it now needs to be a CD fuzzy. attacking carries a higher risk, but there is an increased chance the opponent will throw. Someone throwing a 2P and it being blocked or NH will be here. Jab and PK on NH will also be here.

Big advatage is better called nitaku. It's the +/-6 to 9f range. Resonably fast attacks can't be interrupted and you can throw bigger attacks for more reward. There is no simple option that beats both mid attack and throw so the defender has to guess. elbow at these frames is still great as it's now safe on evade. jab is advantage on evade.
For the defender, you have to guess. If you think they'll throw, you can launch throw it. If you think they'll attack, then you can block/evade. If there has been a CH with a high or mid and you dont know the frames, you can usually assume the attacker can apply nitaku.

past and including +/-10f things are guaranteed. at 10+ throw attempt is guaranteed. Attacker can try the throw or use it as nitaku otherwise. The defender should throw escape in addition to whatever else they do.

+12 and onwards you should be using at least PK.

Watch your replays with the frame display to see what opportunities you're getting.
Edit to add: You basically need to know what puts you in each of these situations and what you should do when you're there. Experience will get you there in the end, but frame data is a handy shortcut.


Sorry for the huge post guys. Hope this helps.

 

The damage from his toe kick is escapable if it normal hits. This is different with most other hit throw moves in FS. Another difference is that it's actually advantage on normal hit, so you'd get some reward even if you miss the hit throw followup.

 

Isn't Jeffs 2K +2 on NH? That extra frame makes a huge difference.

 

What about low throw, which isn't a terrible option at +2 as there is a good chance they'd fuzzy anyway.