Goh questions.

Hi, I have a few questions regarding Goh that I haven't seen answered in the search I've made. I've read both Goh faqs in his character section, and, while I don't have extensive frame knowledge, I have an idea about what's safe and what not in most cases. So, here are my questions:

- What's the use of the + throw? I've managed to get a good use to all his other throws, but this one seems useless, having a more complex motion than the + one and still doing less damage. Also, it doesn't guarantee a down attack, or has RO potential... Am I missing something?

- This one is about the down throws. It looks like they are pretty useless in high level play. I mean, I'm a complete newbie, and in the situations that a down throw is possible, I can consistently input one throw escape, and sometimes I can input both. I guess advanced players won't be down thrown ever. Again... Is there something I'm not aware of?
More or less the same can be said about his low thows. With only two different low throws, escaping them might be too easy, specially in the situations in which one is guaranteed, like after a or a . Doesn't he need another kind of low throw to make his low throw game useful?

- Now, onto Goh low hitting attacks. He has very few, and most of them are not very useful, I think. The ones I use more are +, because it dodges high attacks and has the potential of doing a lot of damage, and +, again because it dodges high attacks, has long range, and knocks down more often than not. and has very short reach and are stuffed too easily, /+ is very situational, and... Well, and I have a lot of trouble doing motions on a pad, so I can't use as frequently as I wanted to, since very often I get a instead. I suppose you'll reply "But Goh doesn't need low attacks that much, he has his throws against standing opponents". Well, I know his throws are useful against standing opponents, but I still think his low hitting attcks are too limited.

- Which followups do you reccomend after landing +? Against the opponents that recover fast enough to avoid the , I usually either do another +, do the + throw, or simply . Should I dash in and perform a more standard throw instead of doing +? Any other recommended followups?

- And finally, a rant of sorts. Why does Goh only have throws ending in four directions instead of five? I mean, he's a grappler, he should have a throw ending in so that his throws had a bigger chance to land. I think this is not an unreasonable complain: Many characters have throws ending in al five directions, so I don't see why Goh, who is more throw oriented than most, doesn't. I would love to see him doinf Kata Guruma with +, for example.

Well, that's all. Instead of just asking questions I've ended sharing my thoughts on the character, but I hope you can give me some good advices after reading this. Also, please keep in mind that I'm very new to the game, so asking me to do a ETEG with 3 GE commands or suggesting combos with 1 frame timing might not be the best of ideas. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you could give me simple but effective advices, it would be great, although I realize that that's not always possible.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

 

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Taim_Meich said:

Hi, I have a few questions regarding Goh that I haven't seen answered in the search I've made. I've read both Goh faqs in his character section, and, while I don't have extensive frame knowledge, I have an idea about what's safe and what not in most cases. So, here are my questions:

- What's the use of the + throw? I've managed to get a good use to all his other throws, but this one seems useless, having a more complex motion than the + one and still doing less damage. Also, it doesn't guarantee a down attack, or has RO potential... Am I missing something?

- This one is about the down throws. It looks like they are pretty useless in high level play. I mean, I'm a complete newbie, and in the situations that a down throw is possible, I can consistently input one throw escape, and sometimes I can input both. I guess advanced players won't be down thrown ever. Again... Is there something I'm not aware of?
More or less the same can be said about his low thows. With only two different low throws, escaping them might be too easy, specially in the situations in which one is guaranteed, like after a or a . Doesn't he need another kind of low throw to make his low throw game useful?

- Now, onto Goh low hitting attacks. He has very few, and most of them are not very useful, I think. The ones I use more are +, because it dodges high attacks and has the potential of doing a lot of damage, and +, again because it dodges high attacks, has long range, and knocks down more often than not. and has very short reach and are stuffed too easily, /+ is very situational, and... Well, and I have a lot of trouble doing motions on a pad, so I can't use as frequently as I wanted to, since very often I get a instead. I suppose you'll reply "But Goh doesn't need low attacks that much, he has his throws against standing opponents". Well, I know his throws are useful against standing opponents, but I still think his low hitting attcks are too limited.

- Which followups do you reccomend after landing +? Against the opponents that recover fast enough to avoid the , I usually either do another +, do the + throw, or simply . Should I dash in and perform a more standard throw instead of doing +? Any other recommended followups?

- And finally, a rant of sorts. Why does Goh only have throws ending in four directions instead of five? I mean, he's a grappler, he should have a throw ending in so that his throws had a bigger chance to land. I think this is not an unreasonable complain: Many characters have throws ending in al five directions, so I don't see why Goh, who is more throw oriented than most, doesn't. I would love to see him doinf Kata Guruma with +, for example.

Well, that's all. Instead of just asking questions I've ended sharing my thoughts on the character, but I hope you can give me some good advices after reading this. Also, please keep in mind that I'm very new to the game, so asking me to do a ETEG with 3 GE commands or suggesting combos with 1 frame timing might not be the best of ideas. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you could give me simple but effective advices, it would be great, although I realize that that's not always possible.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[/ QUOTE ]1: While I'm pretty sure that + does guarantee a , half circle + is always a better option, and more or less + is what you get when you screw up the motion (kind of like Kage's TFT in Final Tuned, and Wolf's perfect/imperfect giant swing)

2: You're absolutely correct about his down throws being poor options in those guaranteed situations like and counter hitting, but really this goes for all characters with low throws. Low throws are generally best utilized in small advantage situations when you think your opponent is going to duck, or fuzzy guard situations.

It's weird when you think about it, in really low level play, going for counter and then getting the low throw is probably the low throw's most common usage. However the fuzzy guard situation will almost NEVER be utilized. And the complete opposite is seen in higher level play.

3: I'm honestly not sure if I can comment on this. But his is probably his most useful low attack since it's safe on block, and his + and + both have their place being half circular (and + with decent damage potential). But again, I can't comment too much, I haven't seen enough high level goh to know where these moves stand, maybe someone else can elaborate. And again yes, his /+ has its place, but someone else needs to touch on ths.

4: Someone else please comment. But, throwing and neutral are both strong options, and I've seen people go for second shoulder rams. I'm sure there's more information on this site about this situation.

5: Can't help you here, sorry /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

Anyways, keep practicing, and if anyone here disagrees with what I say, don't be a dick about it, thanks in advance.

 

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Taim_Meich said:
- What's the use of the + throw?

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Just a throw ending with that doesn't switch sides, nothing more. For damage or position change with , + or + are better options like vanity said.

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Taim_Meich said:
- This one is about the down throws. It looks like they are pretty useless in high level play. I mean, I'm a complete newbie, and in the situations that a down throw is possible, I can consistently input one throw escape, and sometimes I can input both. I guess advanced players won't be down thrown ever. Again... Is there something I'm not aware of?

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The game only allows 1 ground throw to be escaped at a time, so it's always a 50/50 between + and +

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Taim_Meich said:
More or less the same can be said about his low thows. With only two different low throws, escaping them might be too easy, specially in the situations in which one is guaranteed, like after a or a . Doesn't he need another kind of low throw to make his low throw game useful?

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Like vanity said, the most useful application of low throw is killing fuzzy guard, which is a situation the opponent won't be trying to input escapes, so you'll only need 1 (++). As for guaranted situations, let's say after a MC , if your opponent is just mashing escapes, you can do and get a MC. If they want to beat that mixup, they can evade and buffer low throw escapes, but that makes them throwable by regular throws.

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Taim_Meich said:
- Now, onto Goh low hitting attacks.

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Practice because that's his best low. I really can't stress that enough. + and + have their uses because of damage potential. + will knock down if it hits the opponent in the recovery of a move as well as MC. If it knocks down, you can do stand right away in case they miss the spin techroll. /+ is pretty decent, but it's easy to be blocked on reaction after someone sees it a few times.

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Taim_Meich said:
- Which followups do you reccomend after landing +?

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Basic mixup is dash in throw or dash in with :+. is one of Goh's best nitaku tools because it's only -6 on block and does decent damage.

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Taim_Meich said:
- And finally, a rant of sorts. Why does Goh only have throws ending in four directions instead of five? Many characters have throws ending in all five directions, so I don't see why Goh, who is more throw oriented than most, doesn't.

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Only Jeff has throws ending in all 5 directions, and two of them don't do direct damage. Of the other 3, only 2 of those do significant damage, and his + only does 45. Goh has 3 directions which all do good-to-great damage, and his weak throw does 47. That's a lot more throw game than most characters have.

Do a lot.

 

Thanks for your replies!

Regarding the low throws, heh, now I'm embarrassed. I thought you could enter multiple escape commands, so I was very proud when I escaped low throws inputting both commands. I gues I were just lucky! xD

Since the usefulness of seems to be that good, I'll practice the command thoroughly until I can do it without problems in my pad, thanks for the input.

And about the multiple throws... I admit I haven't tried them, I just glanced through the movelist and counted ending directions. One day I'll take my time to check everyone's throws in training mode, to learn what throw escapes I should enter first.

Thanks everyone, and thanks also to those who posted and got their replies deleted in that mini-rollback, I managed to read those posts too, but I couldn't reply then.

 

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Taim_Meich said:
Regarding the low throws, heh, now I'm embarrassed. I thought you could enter multiple escape commands, so I was very proud when I escaped low throws inputting both commands. I gues I were just lucky! xD


[/ QUOTE ] You can still enter both for low throws, just not down (ground) throws.

 

Oh, yeah, I meant down throws. I try my best to use the correct terminology, but I confuse those two frequently. Sorry ^^.