Jeffry tech

I have some new tech to add. It seems that after a throw, everyone likes using the guaranteed . You could, however, buffer in a during the grab. It does more damage, and they are left side turned if they try to block. If they hold nothing they fully turn around, which is weird. Tested with another person last night, definitely connects.

 

How much a

How much advantage on side hit do you get from 6,6 PP side hit after 6,6 P+G?

 

That's an interesting question, because there are some strange properties when this string hits after the grab. I am going to look into it again today when I am off work. I will be testing whether the frame advantage is the same in this situation vs a regular Side Turn , because the fact that they turn to face you fully if they are not blocking puzzles me. There may be a chance the full turn was due to not buffering fast enough, because I was testing this in actual matches and we only took a few seconds to test the no block stuff. Look for an edit to this post later.
PS: You can also pull this off after a ground throw that results in the enemy's back being towards you. The frame situation is different, so I will test this as well to see if they can evade, block, or abare (unlikely) after the ground grab.

 

If you buffer 66PP perfectly eg. to get it actually to come out in 16f, IIRC the first hit hits them to their back and they turn around and the second hit hits normally leaving you at a -1 situation, so it's better to do 3K and take whatever oki you can get. Near the wall you get a wallsplat of course.

 

Okay, it does work as you say, but only if the opponent does not press a button. By remaining at neutral they are allowing the back hit to occur, which does cause them to turn around. However if they block during the grab they will still be hit, and they will end sideturned with your advantage being +2 (Both hits of are +2 on side / back hit). I suppose you can try hit-checking to see if the first hit hits their back and then press to have a +2 advantage with them facing you. This is not really the best situation, especially against 11f characters, so you are right that it's safer just doing .
That being said, if the opponent does know not to push buttons you can try dashing and going for a back throw, lol. It's almost definitely a terrible idea, but hey.

 

Great stuff.More anti-tech please,especially against abusive fast moves against Jeffry.

 

Um...question about how usefull is threat stance against players who know how to avoid/interrupt it.And how can you bait/guarantee this follow up ,,,,whatever combo?
I feel that threat stance is totally useless in high level play unless you somehow manage to connect it in a wall combo.

 

It's not useless at all, you just gotta learn how to make it effective. But it can be pretty effective in a few situations. For example..P,6P, P+K+G is good for a threat stance mixup if they evade towards jeff chest.
The 6P out of the P, 6P string will always track and hit anyone that tries to attack after evading the P or blocking a plus on guard move, or if they are at a disadv (at jeff's chest), so people will just evade then duck after getting hit by it. That's where the P, G cancel into low throw mix-ups comes in at. You will force them to attack or eat low throw mixups. So you can just go for the threat stance after the P,6P string and get it most of the time because of them getting counter hit for fear of low throw mix-ups. The P, 6P, P+K+G and the low throw is a pure 50/50 mix-up. The low throw mixup version also stops EDC. (Just remember to change up your low throws alot). And if they evade towards his back, then 4P, K or delay K, or 4P into low throw stops EDC immediate counter attacks as well. P into delayed 6P tracks in both directions, especially after P, K on hit (+4), but you have to delay the 6P alot though.
P, 6P P+K+G or P+K P+K+G from the side is pretty good (somewhat godly) as they have to completely guess right or lose alot of health, and even if they guess right they are still trapped in a disadvantage situation -6 if you use K+G from side turned threat stance, and they happen to block it, ready to be mixed-up even more. While not the best, it certainly not nearly the worst.

 

Definitely agree with sideturn strategies. The best guess that they can make is maybe ducking , but that gets blown up by threat which makes it easy to confirm the follow up. To beat that they have to block or evade without being able to dash cancel fast enough to avoid , so you can get big damage off a bad guess. Refer to Trykt's post halfway down page 1 of this thread for the side turn threat analysis.

A special circumstance to keep in mind is using threat against a sideturned opponent near the wall. The option causes a low wall splat, and on lightweights you can actually score pretty good damage. Otherwise you have the low wall splat which gives lots of time for nasty setups with or ground grab resets. They still can't evade dash cancel the , so if they want to get out of the wall they can eat big damage.

On block or normal hit I would caution against just straight up using into threat. The same for . Remember that the last hits of these strings are high like the threat slap, so this presents an easy option for defending: just . Enemies will hit you out of everything you try (threat, last string hit, grabs) and get advantage, so they don't have to guess. Any time the opponent has an option when they don't have to guess I feel it indicates a poor choice. You can block the but why even have that situation? I recommend hit checking for counter hits on the part of if you want to try threat after, as the slap will hit I believe. As long as the slap hits your will beat what they do and they have to evade dash cancel to get out free.

You can also try ending combos with threat moves (; ; ) and going into threat when they fall. If they tech you can get a meaty threat if your timing's good. If you get that stagger, I highly recommend either or instead of going for a knee. That stagger is really easy to struggle out of, especially offline, but I think is guaranteed.

 

All good stuff Harpooneer, I agree that threat stance should never be used as a mix-up outside of sideturned or oki situations. Both high level (because they know better and will react) AND low level (because they're mashing it anyway) opponents will just right through the attempt. It's GODLIKE form sideturned though, you can see me abusing the crap out of Blackstar with it at TFC:

http://youtu.be/qdAlcsQQ8-M

Wanted to share some more relatively recent improvements to my game. In addition to the option select I use on certain knockdowns I've also started using - on many (most, in fact) other knockdowns as an additional option select. If done properly it's a safe, meaty mid on a tech roll (so they get popped if they try to wake up evade or abare) and a free down stomp if they stay down. This has done a LOT to encourage my opponents to start teching knockdowns which is fantastic for throw oki. It's not terribly hard to time, should be easy to pick up with some time in training mode.

It's been discussed by myself and others but I want to emphasize how great is as a move. 15 frames means you can use it in 95% of advantaged situations. Fuzzyable on block and completely safe on evade if you do nothing else, PLUS has a follow up move that punishes the opponent REALLY hard for attacking back with a non-high-crush move. On counter hit it's +8 which means basically everything mix-up wise is on the table for Jeffry to try, and the follow up is CH-confirmable to take free damage plus spacing games. Its only real weakness is how pointless it is on normal hit - +1 isn't enough to do anything with and is actually worse than -1 imo since you won't get a successful evade! I just treat a normal hit as though it were blocked and play the exact same games with the follow-up and backdashing. Great move.

 

Seems like people's milage with Threat vary since I've used it quite succesfully as a mixup, side turned or not. Remember that if they block the Threat slap they can ECD the Threat P_6P_K+G mixup if they're good, but practice shows that ECD'ing K+G is really fucking difficult and if they fuck up that's 67 damage right there + oki, however they can never ever abare Threat P or K or Threat 6P too if they try something else but 2P. If the Threat slap hits it's a true 33/33/33 mixup which they can't do a damn about but guess. A good thing about a move like 4PK_4P~P+K+G is that you can sort of mix this up by sometimes delaying the followup mid kick or going into Threat if you're constantly getting punched to the balls after it, of course if 4P CH both followups are NC, but you can only HC the mid kick. Very ghetto, but it works. Other strings with the Threat being an option are not so good because most of them have a high followup only, P+KP, 2_3PP, P6PP, K, there's no risk for the opponent to just 2P everytime after these moves so they make for a poor choice for this application. However, all of them are NCC if you go into Threat from them, KP~P+K+G is especially very good because it launches 80% of the cast and you can HC it.

I agree with Trykt that P+K is a great move, it's what his elbow should be being fuzzyable on block and +1 on hit, which isn't trivial at all IMO because the most powerful option you have at this mostly negligible advantage is backdash since like 95% of people try to 2P you at these advantages so you can just slip away from that and punish. But I think P+KP is nothing really to write home about, it gives decent damage and you can almost HC it + it puts a little bit of distance between you and your opponent, but otherwise it's a high move which will just get you, as stated, 2P'd to the dick. The CH hit throw will basically never happen unless you play some online shmuck. It's also much more lucrative to go into Threat from it since if you do manage to get them to freeze and not press that panic button, there you go, instant mixup.

Also yes, PK after Threat P+K is guaranteed, everything else can be struggled, but I've had pretty good success at doing 2P+K after it and a small combo from it although I'm sure better players would catch up to it.

 

I was spurred to incorporate + into my arsenal more following Harpooner's post. The fact that threat stance is a nc from + on hit has made it my favorite move to enter threat. Every time I know I can duck a high, or my opponent is going to abare I just use it to reintroduce them to the threat stance vortex.

In the end that's really what a Jeffry player wants...threat stance

 

That's missing the point of the string, though. is an anti-evade string. People generally don't use high crush moves after evading, they want to jab or or something. That's why the string works. If is a constant part of your game your opponent has to pay attention to what they evaded anytime they get a successful evade. If they want to attack after the evade they MUST use a high crush or sabaki move, which is so sub-optimal (not to mention counter-intuitive at first) that's a huge win for Jeffry when they start doing that.

Plus there's another small metagame that occurs with a blocked - Jeffry can backdash and if the opponent does something short range like or he can whiff punish them (I get quite often here). If the opponent catches on to this and does something longer ranged like (obviously the best counter to a backdashing opponent) that opens the door for Jeffry to finish the string sometimes and get the counter hit throw. Jeffry's options after let him get away with a LOT of jank. It's amazing to see someone successfully evade or block and then do nothing because they're so unsure of what Jeffry's going to try after lol

Also just a quick note, after the counter hit throw Jeffry gets a free stomp if the opponent does anything except stand straight up or roll backwards with fastest timing (they have to mash pretty good). If they sideroll or try to rising kick they eat foot, and Jeffry still has time after his stomp to play spacing games or meaty crush (I like for this) if they want to try to rising kick after that.

And I'll just agree to disagree about front-facing threat mix-up, it's not a true 3-way mix-up since ECD exists and he is always punishable if they evade (Threat) or (Threat) (especially by characters with good 14 frame punishers), or if they duck (Threat) (especially by characters with 17 frame NH launchers). It's true the opponent can't abare through Threat so it's an awesome scrub destroyer, but against an opponent that knows he can just let Jeffry hang himself I would rather use the 3 way mix-ups you get out of delayed string/throw tactics.

 

Also, don't sleep on , or even ! is naturally good against most character's s, and it's actually really good against evades. Looks goofy, too, which is always a plus.

 

They can't EDC front facing threat stance on hit, you must mean on guard. And can't you just delay 6P out of Threat stance and make it hit them on recovering EDC? Mix between delayed 6P and (K or P,P) if they EDC. You can delay it a good amount of time. What about P+K delay? Does it hit them still even after they evade? (If you delay time it right). I mean it takes a long time to hit, plus it has decent active frames (3), So wouldn't that hit if they tried to do any attack immediately out of evade at certain times/adv disadv like a lot of people do?

 

I was going to reply the exact same thing that you can always delay Threat if they either try to crouch or evade/ECD against it on block which will then hopefully catch them. Delaying P+K against ECD does the same thing as any other Threat move, although due to it's slowness you can delay it a little bit less than the faster moves. So there really is a lot of options for using Threat without ST, even if it means you sort of have to guess, but isn't that pretty much with any other stance too? I'd hardly call it just a scrub destroyer if you know how to utilize it t

 

Fun Jeff wall tech. at an angle to create a wall stagger, then into Threat Stance, Threat Stance breaking gurard, and again, rinse and repeat......

 

Some Jeff stuff I found:

From advantages up to +6 you can use jump to beat evades. This will also beat and most heavy damage stuff. Of course if the opp uses the right abare he will get a float, but since it's Jeff the damage won't be too absurd. It's cd fuzzy safe too at -5. This is a move that works for conditioning the opponent in his choices, so when you notice someone using a lot of 2p/evades at small adv: this is your move.
Note that at adv +7 or greater (Jeff is at +8 after a lot of his CH pokes), the jump comes out just when the opp has recovered, so they'll get a successful evade

At small adv you can use a lot of nice safe pokes with pretty good rewards on CH:

is a nice small safe poke that gives +8 on CH! If the opp guards it, the followup CH hit throw makes it a bit difficult for the opponent to grab the advantage back. Of course, just guarding is usually the best choice, but observe the opponent's habits: if he is happy, you can use to beat it and take the adv back. If he uses a non-highcrush move, you can use the followup to deny him the advantage. Use a random abare move at times as well. Be unpredictable.

is a nice 16-frame CH combostarter. Use it when you predict the opp's abare.

I think with Jeff it's best to keep your openings to a minimum, so the opp has a hard time dealing damage. For this reason I prefer not to use a lot of throws at small adv. Only when you have completely conditioned your opp you can start using them.

What I now consider to be quite an essential move for Jeff is , since the Splash Mountain follow-up is guaranteed on CH and takes 50% of the opp's lifebar. It's hard to get it to hit 100%, but I think it's doable. It just makes Jeff that much harder to use. So train train train! Make it as reliable as you can. I think when you're able to use this in nitaku, you'll be in a good spot to kick ass with Jeff.

If the opp is breaking all your throws and evading your strikes when in nitaku (+7 or greater), use Jeff's halfcirculars: string and string. works great on guard as well because of the mid followup and the option to go into threat. Use delayed threat hitthrow to kill evades when attacking from the front.

Gameplan: few openings, but a lot of damage when the opp guesses wrong. Make them fear Jeff's nitaku.

 

I love jumping ! Didn't know that about large advantages though! It explains a lot of the confusion I was having about beating evades with it. I also find it messes with crouch dash fuzzy; depending on whether they delay the crouch dash this could potentially hit or maybe whiff on smaller characters.

A good rule for training the timing of is to do the command, return to neutral, and then hold or while checking for CH. When you see Jeff twitch, starting the crouch animation, input the command quickly. Eventually, you will get used to it so you don't have to hold the crouch, but watching to see the first frames he can move after the toe kick is a good visual training method.

Edit: Pretty sure I read that training technique on here at least a year ago so don't think that I made it up! There's a lot of good info in the old posts here, it's just that there isn't a lot of new posting going on.