Latest Arcadia Tierliest

I really do think AOI is a top tier character, at least she has the best abilities in VFFT when compared to previous versions of VF.

 

this is what I'll say, people continually try to tier this game, and while I'll say it does have tiers, I think if we start bringing the MVC2 mentality of it all into this game, it'll suck with everyone picking the same people because they are supposed to be better, worse, w/e. That being said, I would like to add my own tiers (of offensiveness).

top: the niggers
middle top: the japs, the chinks
mid: the frog leg sucker
mid bottom: the snow flakes
bottom: the guinea

 

Wow.

 

sarah should be in a higher position.....

 

[ QUOTE ]
KiwE said:

First of all, I would say that it's unnecessary to write "fuck tiers!!!111one I beat my kid brothers Gouku all the time!" as a comment in this thread. But we all know it's going to happen so... without further ado I present Arcadias VF:FT tierlist. Atleast imho it's interesting to read.

[ QUOTE ]
Virtua Fighter 4: Final Tuned

Top-High:
Kage
Jacky

Top-low:
Pai
Aoi

Mid-High:
Lau
Sara

Mid-Low:
Akira
Wolf
Lion

Low-High:
Vanessa
Brad <----------- Yay! Moving up in the world son!
Shun

Low-Low:
Jeffry
Gou
Leifei <----------- Wow

[/ QUOTE ]

Edit:The Source is SRK @ http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105515

/KiwE

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the tier list fror VF:FT right? What is the tier list for VF4evol?

Are you sure Aoi is suppose to be that high?

[ QUOTE ]
Srider said:You didn't know Kage is black? He's THE black ninja.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, I didnt know that. That's awesome!

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

By request of noodalls - Why I believe Lei - Fei is correctly tiered by arcadia.

Back at the SoCal Devolucion, I've gotten to play against players who are consistently used to playing versus Lei-Fei. Yosuke, Kazu, Maddy. They showed me huge weakeness's in Lei-Feis game that lead me to believe that he is very much an incomplete character like Goh. In mid level gaming Lei-Fei is very high Tier, but once you get to the much Higher levels (arcadia tier list created by a poll of top players) Lei-Fei drops dramatically.

Heres the reasons why
Lack of Fundamentals
: -4 on block -1 on hit - then people will argue
: +1 on block +4 on hit (i'll elaborate on this below)

- which many players have reported to feel and act like a 15 frame move due to the dashing animation before the hit frame + input.

- one of his best moves, 16 frame exe , -14 on failed nitaku.

, out of stance feels like anywhere from 20-50 frames depending on what stance im in.

vs High Reflex Players
is +1 on block, what does a high reflex player do. Stand and Block. Thats it. They can react block to the low stagger kick, and also react to a stance cancel. If they detect a stance cancel a quick fuzzy takes out most of my options, which leads me to a delay delay game which leads me back to my poor fundamentals again.

So comparitively - Lei-Fei in a +1 situation is actually worse than neutral, since im stuck in a stance. In which you start to believe that Attack or Delay Attack becomes your best option, since you have no option to throw. LeiFeis RPS game turns into a RP game. So a patient High Reflex player like Kazu, will just wait all day, untill you throw out a big move that he can take advantage of. Almost any Safe move out of IN, leaves you back at IN at negative frames now, which is worse off than what you originally started with. now becomes your best option which is high half ciruclar and 0 on guard and takes you out of stance. The opponent knows that, and as soon you start using it, they'll start taking advantage of you.

So to sum up my mostly confusing explanation,
[IN] guard cancel, as safest option and sadly most effective option.
[IN] = neutral frames = which resets back to crappy fundamental moves

So having , your fastest and most basic move being mostly inneffective in High level play, it leaves you with and , which arent bad moves, but they force you to fight a slower game.

-12-14 situations, is also where LeiFei struggles greatly. while all other characters get -------------> simple jab throw nitaku.

I'll elaborate more on other situations later, if anyone else is interested. Maybe SH_ can help me.

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

Alex, I think the Arcadia tier list was determined by one or two persons so it doesn't necessarily represent all the top players' views. When Kyasao and...what's-his-name...were asked, didn't they put Lei Fei as mid- to high-tier?

Unfortunately I never really understood Lei Fei so I won't be able to speak to your level, but everytime I fought the top Lei Feis (such as Hanabirei) I always felt they were untouchable. Whether that's because I don't understand Lei Fei's frames and options or because those Lei Feis were able to move in a way that made it difficult to fight them...who knows, but my experience was that those top Lei Feis seemed to have no problems winning, even against other elite opponents. (Admittedly not so for Goh). I actually find non-top tier Lei Feis (i.e. 10th dan range) easier to fight than other characters, so I don't think I'm completely worthless against Lei Fei.

As to your example...why is so important? Lei Fei obviously cannot > nitaku as well as other characters, but other characters' and are awful with bad recovery whereas Lei Fei's are decent (if not good, far from useless). You still get the extra damage too.

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

Ice im explaining that since Leifei cannot nitaku at all, -1 on hit. He has to to arrive at the same situation of +1, In which hes worse off than other characters as I explained above (slow ability to guard, and no option to throw, low kick blockable on reaction). So what if an opponent throws out a move thats -12-14, is your best option /versus/images/graemlins/indifferent.gif As you remember in KS2 i think?, Minami spammed Heruru with Byakkos all day with little fear of retaliation. Once you understand Lei's Frames and recognize his stance animations after years of playing against them, noted the players above, I cannot try to gain back my extra frames by stance cancel confusion at all, which is one of Lei-Fei's main games. Once I lose that ability, im suspect to a lot of counter attacks.

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

PD: You missed a big point I do believe, he has a lot of situations that once they arise, he cannot get out of specific big forms of retaliation, for instance, if Lei 66K+Gs someone, he can do absolutely nothing to get out of a free as DblPlm, and very little to get out of ShRm and Back check. That's just one of the things I'd say, as well as the lack of damage without HUGE risk, and of course the distinct lack of standard options (though I do find myself obligated to point out that while people may look for IN options after P,P, you can switch out to DM very easily for even that P,P which still executes very quickly, or just messing around with DM stuff, so there's good options, but the problem is the lack of non risky frame based options, mainly property stuff).

Ice: You will prolly wanna rectify that whole not knowing how to face Lei, cause he can be very dangerous, and it's just ridiculous if you don't know how to face him.

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

Leifei can fuck u up the worst if you don't know him well enough. He can make you quit. Some players in Ohio never want to play SH_'s Brad because of his Leifei back in the days.


Leifei has good options, but like SH_ said they are risky, so not everyone can play him. When SH_ plays me with Lei, big risks are probably the reason why he doesn't use too much of tricky stuff. Ideally, his property moves should be used as extras on top of the VF fundametals(santaku games) and not the other way around. If one's game is based on property moves, the person wouldn't fair well against someone who knows Leifei well.

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

Ya, Sean i was going to get to that, but I like to supply all my arguments with counter arguements as well - but I had to leave work in the meantime. Basically Lei-Fei's lack of ability to quickly guard out of stance, is the cause of most of these problems. Also having no throw out of stance hurts as well. BTW 66K+G is somewhat fixed for FT. Ya, maddy Lei's very high tier against people who lack the ability to understand him, because he gains extra frames on all his moves via confusion. Against players who've seen it all /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

PD: I understand that Lei Fei at +1 on stance isn't as good as other characters at +1, but what you get in return is damage from the extra . OK I know that's not much.

SH: Well I'm not THAT bad. I often look to challenge Lei Feis while ranking up in Japan because I think they're easier to beat at my rank (10th dan/Tsuwamono). I have never played a Lei Fei outside of Japan that made me want to quit the game.

What I'm trying to say is--the top Lei Feis in Japan are AWESOME. That's got to mean that Lei Fei isn't as bad as we think. Just don't ask me what it is. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

I think most characters does more damage and leaves them at better frame advantage still. +2 most characters. But yet again you're evading the whole arguement. Lei-Fei's fundamentals are weak as a whole. Also, almost anything leifei does is risk, because of a lack of an immediate guard. Read my inital post once again. I dont think you're getting the situations me and sean are assesing. Maybe someone else can help me?

Ice, top any character players are awesome in japan. Again VF tier charts are pretty compacted. You dont just lose in this game because of tier difference. So yes, by no means does leifei suck because VF is balanced in that way. But if you were supposed to rank them in High Level play, Lei-Fei does exist in the bottom pool with Goh.

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

PD: the one thing I will say though, he does have USABLE options and for the most part equivilants, like P throw = low P (hit confirmed) > either Fei Shenanigans or block or tech on block and throw on hit. His elbow has it's purpose, but it's not easy to use really right, but that's playing Fei, u gotta play the game, we will prolly get into it more next time we meet.

 

Re: Low Tier Lei-Fei

Thanks for the post PhoenixDth and the discussion. It reminds me of WCMaxi talking about Voldo in Soul Calibur I time; decent tricky character who won't ever be great beacuse he lacks fundamentals.