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Question about Brad Step Change Knee on waking opponents

Discussion in 'Brad' started by Onny, Dec 24, 2003.

  1. Onny

    Onny Well-Known Member

    hi

    looking through the excellent Brad dojo and a few nice brad threads i have noticed something that confuses me.
    it is this situation: opponent is falling into a face down, head towards position (after maybe a [4][6][P]+[G]). brad does a Step Change Knee ([4][6][K]) and the opponent does quick rise guard. now accordng to a few sources i've read, this situation ends even.

    i am confused as to why this is. isn't Step Change Knee throw counterable on guard?

    i really want to understand this because it sounds like a strong tactic! so thanks for any help in advance.
     
    Onny, Dec 24, 2003
    #1
  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    This is a very good question.

    After the throw, and the opponent chooses to quick rise in place they are forced to guard between high and low. However, the properties after the guard during a quick rise aren't the same as a normal guard.

    So, while the step change knee is throw counterable normally, if you do it immediately after the throw and they guard it during the quick rise, it won't be throw counterable. This is because your guard stun is longer during the quick rise.

    To prove it to yourself, record Brad in free training doing this:

    [4][6][P]+[G] ~ [4][6][K] ~ [P][P][P]

    and then play it back on yourself. Let the throw get you then quick rise and guard the knee. You'll find that the throw isn't guaranteed because Brad's punches will hit you each time.

    Just a further note, I don't think situation is literally "even" after the step change knee. Brad is at a large disadvantage. There may have been a translation error on my part at the time, but you can just interpret it as nothing being guaranteed for either side.
     
    Myke, Dec 24, 2003
    #2
  3. Faded

    Faded Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    This is because your guard stun is longer during the quick rise

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I had no idea about this at all, that's really useful info. Thanks.
     
    Faded, Dec 24, 2003
    #3
  4. KiwE

    KiwE Well-Known Member

    Read this. It's cause of your attack is against the opponent in the second phase, his "while standing" phase in which he is vunerable to a midattack before he gets full control back over his character (making it so he cannot counterattack you as fast as he could normally). I don't think a "longer gaurd stun" has much to do with it, it's just the engines way of putting QR's and TR's in 3 different phases... Note that you could just aswell do a [6][K] (which would be less counterable) and combo them with if they tried to attack you as soon as they got control of their character (perhaps in fear of the throw) but since [4][6][K] combos of normal hit (which it will be during the while standing phase) it's a much better option in the QR situation to get used to. It's a perfect 50/50 situation. If the opponent gaurds during the while standing phase you can throw him at the end of it (he won't be able to punch his way out if you time it right), if he doesn't you can hit him with the mid. In both cases, you could delay your knee attack until he gets control back of his character for a MC as some (alot) will try to [2][P] or something in fear of the throw. If you do delay it heavily like this to get them when they're in "normal phase", however, you are once again more counterable if they just gaurd.
     
    KiwE, Dec 24, 2003
    #4
  5. Onny

    Onny Well-Known Member

    thanks for the replies fellas. i understand it a bit better now. not sure that i'll use it much in a match because i prefer to respond to either a "stay down" or a side roll, but if my opponent is repeatedly doing a quick rise it's most certainly nice to know.

    out of interest, why won't this work using some other mid that causes long "blockstun" (ie ducking > [K]+[G])?
     
    Onny, Dec 25, 2003
    #5
  6. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    [ QUOTE ]
    Onny said:

    thanks for the replies fellas. i understand it a bit better now. not sure that i'll use it much in a match because i prefer to respond to either a "stay down" or a side roll, but if my opponent is repeatedly doing a quick rise it's most certainly nice to know.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think you should be prepared to respond to any situation, otherwise you're letting an opponent who just QRs all the time get away scott free.

    [ QUOTE ]
    out of interest, why won't this work using some other mid that causes long "blockstun" (ie ducking > [K]+[G])?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Who says it won't work? It works on any move because it's a property of guarding during QR. As long as you guard "something", you'll get a couple of frames added onto your recovery from the guard stun. So for the example of Brad's ducking [K]+[G], in this situation it no longer becomes Elbow counterable. Try it in training to prove to yourself.
     
    Myke, Dec 25, 2003
    #6
  7. Onny

    Onny Well-Known Member

    ah.. marvellous stuff myke, thanks for the help. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
     
    Onny, Dec 28, 2003
    #7

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