TKOD in VF5

That was pretty sick!

I saw a vid where a Jeffry player toe-kicked and appeared to begin the Splash Mountain, but it was clashed by an attack/throw from the opponent.

 

It seems like they made this timing much harder in VF5. Don't even bother trying it online.

 

The timing seems the same as it ever was (when his foot hits the floor), but the real issue is whether it's guaranteed on counter.

 

I could do it every time in EVO, and I'm about 10% in this game so far.

 

Another thing you can try is between the 2K and the throw command is adding a dash (mentioned earlier, I think). The beauty is that you can use ANY dash (standing or crouch dashes forward or back) before the throw. Also remember that the qcf throw after 2K is unescapable and the P follow up after 2K hits is guaranteed, so imagine the options.

Agreed.

Hmm....Never had that happen before. I have had opponents somehow turn their back and they get back thrown though. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

The funny thing though is that qcf throw after 2K has a grab animation (Jeff steps forward to throw) different from the standard grab animation. So while it has a similar property to a catch throw, could it be clashed as would a noraml grab? Unless maybe in that vid, the Jeffry player did the regular Splash Mountian command (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif).

If you can show the vid or anyone confirm, that would help.

 

I can do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif consistently. I've never done /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif which looks like a KneeOD as the 2nd /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has been changed into a knee.

 

The hit throw may not be 'escapable', but they can certainly just duck it on normal hit. If VF5 changed it so they can duck it or punch out of it on counter hit too (what i'm asking about) then jeffs options are essentially worthless; it makes /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif nearly equivalent to his elbow, just slower and with more range.

 

Figured as much.

That's kinda what I meant. I figured that was obvious when I mentioned that I've seen people get back thrown from the throw after 2K because they did something between the attack and the throw to turn around.

Thanks for clearing it up though.

I think you can do the throw sooner if the 2K is counter hit, but I'm not sure on that at the moment.

 

Has anyone actually used this against other human opponents? I can do it all day against the computer, but it hasn't worked once against a real opponent (online or offline).

Any suggestions?

 

Sebo asked about the window for TKoD the other day on IRC, so I tested it out.

The window for the last /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif input for successful hit-throw is from 50 to 60 frames after the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif input. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif has to be held for at least 2 frames or you'll get an evade, the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif motion can be done as fast as possible (3 total frames) and still be successful. Don't know the limit on how slow it can be done, but in practice, seems like it can be done really slowly.

I know myself and others had casually tested out that it's not guaranteed on counter hit, but I just wanted to re-confirm that it can be ducked even on counter hit. I think this makes sense if it's always active on the 60th frame - 44 frames total + 8 frames advantage + 7 frames required to duck == crouching on 59th frame.

 

So essentially there's no game in between 2K/P/Hammer
really is there? Is toe kick hammer a natural combo btw?
If not it could give someone SOME incentive to stand up.
(Unless they are good at recognizing counter hits)

 

That's right. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a combo on normal hit, if you dont delay it. I'm not sure how hit-confirmable it is if you delay on counter hit.

On counter hit you've got enough advantage to theoretically do a knee-or-tkod guessing game . . . but if you hit them with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to begin with, you could have hit them with a knee anyway, and knee floats off a ducking opponent kinda suck.

 

Lately I have been able to land K+G 2k 44 236PG fairly consistently. I find that most ppl will try to punch or sidestep out of the 2k. Plus you are so far away after the 2k that it is very difficult to punish if the throw misses.

 

Sorry for reviving an old thread. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

I don't know if this has been answered yet or anything but I was wondering for example if you did Threat Stance /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and then they Ukemi in place does it still work? I've seen the video where the toe kick hit the opponent and after he techrolled the splash connected but in Ukemi its like they're in crouch position before they get up in place is the frames enough for them to eat the splash?

Edit: I would appreciate it if KoD could answer since he seems to know best about the topic of TKOD, I know your busy though so take your time, thanks.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, I don't mean to make anyone angry or anything of that sort but when I said take your time this isn't what I had in mind! It's been like over 2 months already, I don't know if it's because you didn't see the thread or something I don't want to jump the gun but I hope that was the reason. I mean, let me say it like this, I'd rather you've looked at this and said, "Kamais_Ookin you lazy shit put the game in the tray, get your whining ass into dojo mode and figure it out yourself." then just not get any response at all. To answer the quote actually I would say the reason I wanted you to do it was because you know much more about how to use the dojo and frames because I've read your other work, and hell you know a lot about this topic itself. If you already know the answer to my question then that's great, if you don't know but don't care then that's fine too, but at least be courteous enough to let me know instead of leaving me hanging so I can think of a different way of finding out the answer, because quite frankly I look up to veterans like you in this site but I'm not impressed atm.

Again no hard feelings, your still one of my favorite Jeff's

 

"Kamais_Ookin you lazy shit put the game in the tray, get your whining ass into dojo mode and figure it out yourself."

 

Thank you for the prompt reply, the old Kamais would be angry, this one is improved though from back-to-back lashings from my superiors so all I have to say is, "I'll try"