Top 10 Pai Moves

I really love 44P... It's so great to evade a rising low attack with back turned 9K. ^^ And you can evade by doing 7K wich is really fun!

 

Not that all of the posts in this thread aren't good, but this post was well-written and inspiring. Thanks, Dat91Scrub!

-David

 

In response to Dat91Scrub's post (which I can't quote because it contains more than 20 images and thus can not be posted!...ARGH!)

This here is one of the most poignant commentaries about one of the most powerful styles of a Pai player and that is her stances. A lot of these core moves segue into Pai's stances and, like the poster says, enters you into the labyrinth of confusion that is Pai. I want to add that moves like can, if blocked, be turned into 9 and into another variety of moves that can confuse and frustrate the opponent like the counter 3/9 movement or . I think that a lot of the movesets of pai are underutilized, as a lot of Pai's I see are up close and a constant barrage of attacks. I like to see pai in a mid range, poking and using those mid range attacks to get in and start the confusion of her stances and the options that she has.

 

My list in no particular order would be


Tons of options after it


Don't think this needs an explanation xD


It's great to use after a backdash. It also goes under highs, and guarantees a small combo on hit. Also pushes opponent back on block to keep a relatively safe distance.


Great to confuse your opponent with some confusing follow-ups. Some are better than others.


Goes under highs, has a full circular follow-up kick that leaves you BT, can go into Bokutai for more opponent confusion and stuff.


If timed right it can give you great follow-up damage.

From Bokutai
Staggers on hit, you can follow-up with , , another , or go into Hakkeshou to keep mixing up.


Great range, goes over lows and has great follow-ups


Evades lows, and is used in a lot of cases


Has great range and I end up using it a lot against sidestepping and spacing opponents.

 

Actually, I was chatting about in the shoutbox the other night, and it was brought to my attention (news to me) that it doesn't go over lows. You can try it in the dojo yourself (I did, because I didn't believe it). It seems to go over things because it's so fast and strong (stuffs a lot of things during its active frames), but an opponent's will counter-hit it every time from neutral or -1.

Makes me see the move in a different light, not that it isn't still strong. Of course, it's very unsafe to finish both kicks if the opponent is blocking.

-David

 

Huh? Ok.. Well. I still don't believe it. When people do a low wake-up kick, I often use on them. Sometimes the first even misses, but, the low wake-up kick does not hit me. How does it not go over lows Guess I have some testing to do.

 

Let me know how that testing goes, because I'm still reluctant to believe it after seeing it with my own eyes in the dojo, haha. I don't know if it's all been a beautiful dream, but I could ~swear~ that goes over lows... A couple of people that I respect highly disagreed with me, though, and I couldn't get it over any lows in the dojo... I think that it might have been my imagination.

 

Well I did some testing, and maybe I'm missing something, but I have to conclude it goes over lows. It might simply be that the first few execution frames do not count as going over lows. That's explained later.

I did three things, and if there's a flaw in them, I''ll gladly hear it.

First, the is 12 frames, and is 14 so even if you're at +1, the low punch should beat it out right? So, I used on block, and followed it up with , and well, the beats out the low punch. It's a blue counter hit too instead of yellow, and I assume that's another indication since that means you're hitting on recovery of the opponent. So we have to conclude that it's not hitting the opponent because is faster, but because it actually evades lows.

If you do , which gives you +2 on block, and then do , both attacks should hit at the same time, but, the doesn't hit, and this time it's a yellow counter too. So again, it seems that evades lows.

Also, I wanted to do a -1 one, but I didn't know how to properly set it up with the training tools xD So instead, I did an offensive move and used afterwards, hitting from the side thus leaving Pai at -1. The should be 3 frames faster than now, unless there's some weird side turning shenanigans going on. In any case, beats out the low punch again, and it's also a blue counter, which means it hits on the recovery frames, thus being faster can be ruled out.

Aside from that, I also tested out . This does go over lows right? It's 21 execution frames and in the same situations above, it hits the opponent doing the low punch despite being vastly slower. So its evasive properties for lows seem to be the same.

Now, another thing to note.. If you do (just normal stance, not side), you'll be left at -4. If you jump, you will evade the low punch. So you have time to get airborne before the punch hits you. However, if you execute either or , you will get hit by the low punch. This can only mean that these two moves do evade low attacks, however, it takes a few frames before you are put in the jumping state to evade lows. I'm too lazy to find out how many exactly. But if you can't evade when you're at -4, and a low punch is 12 frames, it means that at least 8 frames are still leaving you in standing state instead of jumping state.

If there's anything wrong with the way I tested, let me know.

 

I like your findings. I forget exactly how I was testing it, but I think that my math was wrong, which was silly of me; I was attempting it at -1 instead of +1, and +1 would be much more telling for a 14-frame move vs a 12-frame one (2P). It's no wonder that I was getting hit by the 2P.

If you got a blue counter-hit on a 2P at +1, definitely goes over lows. As for the yellow counter-hit on -2, that could have been ruled out as the result of a clash (stronger attack wins), I believe, but I think that you've proven pretty conclusively that goes over lows. Good sleuthing, and I won't spread my slander any more.

I think that it was MarlyJay that first told me that doesn't leap over lows, any more, and he encouraged me to test it. Hopefully he'll check this thread.

Thanks!

-David

 

Ah yeah, I forgot about the clash mechanics. Anyway, maybe they changed the amount of frames it takes before you're considered to be in a jumping state (don't know what the proper term would be lol), but it definitely seems to still go over lows. I really found it amazing when you told me it didn't because it seemed to work in practice too xD Feel free to replicate and evaluate my findings.

 

I can't believe how much I'm landing the charge kick. I'm sure that was slower and more obvious in regular 5 or even 4 (?). I think they're guarding anticipating the 3PP6P string, but get clipped before they can blitz back in. Just wish I had a better follow up than PPKK, or 66K, P ~ few minor scuffs on the ground.

Stand P 'into' her best throw still feels as useful and satisfying as it has been for about a decade now. 2P 'into' the 2,6 throw is still valid, but doesn't seem to have the range like in past versions. Remarkable tactic with both her and Aoi in VF3. I will have to try later to see if the crumple from 4,6P+k can go into a low throw (took me quite a few hours to adjust now just having to hit 1 or 2G+P instead of 2G+P+K). Again, with Aoi on the old VF5, that was ridiculous damage that hardly anyone ever escaped (if that was even possible after crumple).

 

Yeah her definitely has evasive properties because it seems to step back, so a lot of short range mids and lows will whiff. seems to have the same effect as well, although it's a lot harder to time correctly.

 

I'm using more and more pai low throws.
When the opponent is techrolling to much. I finish my combos by a simple ppkk and go for a free 33P+G and the huge combo (or a mix up if the opponent is good at stagger).

 

I have been focusing moves that can use the pushback from obvious moves like B,F P+K, DF P+K, and F, B PP. I know backdashing after them knowing they will block it is good and base your reaction on what they do from there but using moves like DB P and even B P+K+G means that Pai won't have to back dash all the time because those move automatically back up somewhat initially all by themselves and have natural evasive properties to them as well. I have tested this out on Akira but the long reach of his elbows make this tactic hard and he can still get me making the back dash a better option against him if I know the elbow is coming. I have to see how it works on other characters too. Taking advantage of the push back Pai gets is something any Pai should try to take advantage of anyway to keep the opponent guessing.

 

I have to say that 3 K is THE move in FS with Pai.
Not only that is a good move in neutral...
Because after a succesful STEP/DM/EVADE (whatever) YOU HAVE TO USE 3K. This is a huge punish option.

 

Aside from 3K that Ben mentioned, what other moves are good to use after a step/offensive move to punish a opponent with a damaging combo?

 

4P is slow but it will guarantee a combo chance if it hits on a side turned foe after a side step. If you are really brave and you suspect a foe might attack still you can do Pai's launcher or her 4,6,6 P+K (her shoulder attack) they would also give you the same thing but they are all very unsafe if they are missed or blocked. 3K and 4P are her safer option in this situation though and are the options I would try to use most of the time on a side turned foe.

 

Got it, gonna try using 4P then (I wasn't feeling using 3K all the time since it looks like it only gives you a opportunity for a good combo on counter hit). Thanks!

 

46- Awesome move looks cool, great frame advatanges and bounces your opponent back up if used during a launcher combo.

6 Pretty much stops alot.

3 This will stop everything, in my opinion it's never failed me always stopped people dead in there tracks lol.


66 If you use this while your opponent is recovering they most likely wont see it and you have many option with it.


2 I love this, most people think they're safe if they evaded the first then the next one comes and hits em'! it's a tricky move but that's why i love it, can be risky though.

46 So this isn't necessarily a hit but, if near wall it can give you huge combos i use this every match and usually get 100+ combos a lot from this little throw, the throw itself is only 10 damage, rest is your own work lol.

3 Charged or uncharged its amazing- i usually do charged because even if it fails you get to do 2 then choose whatever after in bokutai

9 Great frame advantage if hit and most opponents will block since you didn't finish the hit with 9 and you call usually get in pai's biggest grab, or you can go a different route and mix it up big time with other tricky hits.

3 So many options with this, i use it every match- round lol.

4 Do i need to explain? Crazyy mixups

I have hundreds more of her favs!! but this is only a short list

 

And let's not forget simple P+K, low throw on yellow flash, and often seems to sort of guard break them so you can go into stuff like palm, 1KK, or 6P+KP. Useful move from sidestep too.

7K+G is always great to clear space so you can start poking, sliding in low, or doing the big circular 4K+G

2_4P+G, great ring out potential when under pressure near the edge and stop a string with 2P, that can be a sudden surprise!