10th dan and struggling

I am at 10th dan on evo with 3 different characters and have just completed the sonic cup with all of them. Now that I have moved on to the next arcade I am really struggling. Lately I have been lucky if I win 1 game in 3. I am wondering if there is something that I am doing fundamentally wrong. The only thing that I am really struggling with is throw escapes, which I am working on (they are easy enough in training but nearly impossible in a match).

Before I had evo I had achieved ranks such as dragonlord and emporor and was even finding that Dural was becoming easy in kumite. While I am impressed with the improved AI I feel as though I have hit a wall and really need help.

Unfortunately I am unable to attach movies of myself playing as I am not that technologically adept /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Robin

 

The last two arcades are very difficult. It's hard to improve your flowcharts and such on their own, so make sure you do tactics advice a couple times, and use those techniques to make sure you're getting the most from any situation.

 

These three pages helped me improve my game more than the rest of this site combined..

throwing guide by drift++

dealing with everyday bs by creed

tactics advice for all characters by lm_akira

gl

 

Thanks guys, I have done tactics advice to death so that will be no help. I am currently having a look at those articles and they look helpful (although I would disagree with some of the stuff in the second one).

The third article reminded me about one move I can rarely get to be effective, which is + with Aoi. It never seems to deflect the attacks it is supposed to and I assume that my timing is wrong when I do it, but I don't know what the correct timing is.

Robin

 

As for the timing... those things just come naturally once you do it over and over again. so dont be afraid to try them and lose because of it. Goh's + used to piss me off so much because i couldn't the timing right but i kept practicing and even losing matches just to get it and now, its instinct.

 

oh you play Aoi !

Let me reemphasize how much my game improved by learning which throws to escape for each character, and which throw animations correspond to which throw escape directions (so you can switch up your MTEs on the fly). A lot to memorize but you should already know which of your characters' moves gurantee a throw when blocked.

I'm not in much of a position to give advice (altho i did get to Champion rank), but when i was learning throw escapes i would intentionally use throw-guranteed moves over and over again (against the AI) to try to draw a throw. Best ones IMO are (and i apologize if this is painfully obvious)..

, at short range (do if the second hit lands, then to get some space and repeat or whatever ..but that's all in tactic training)

+, at medium range (i use this one the most)

+, also at medium range, atlho i usually only use this one when i'm dashing in after they whiff an attack

I guess the reason i use these to draw throws is because of their speed (so you're not getting countered all the time), range (except that first one), and that they advance you forward while pushing your opponent away. Oh and it's nice when they land =)

Too bad -cancels are next to worthless against the AI (or are they? correct me if i'm mistaken).

As for timing multiple throw escapes i can't really help you.. Practice practice practice, i guess. I can always do two, often three, but NEVER four. Maybe it would be easier if i were using a joystick?

As for her sabakis.. i try to only use + when i notice my opponent is whoring punches/elbows and + when they're whoring low/mid kicks. Unless they connect you're left in an ugly situation, but i've won a lot of games with them so i dunno.

The sabakis i never get to work are and +, . I simply don't know how to apply in a game (any suggestions would be great) and the timing for the +, sabaki is too ackward for me to use (i'm not that good, heh).

edit: oh, one more thing.. i don't know how much you use ++ but i know that i don't use it enough. Now that Aoi can reverse ANYTHING i find myself choosing them (reversals) over her YY, which is sometimes very good and sometimes very bad. Getting MC'ed after whiffing a reversal often = heinous punishment.

Of couse, for me, it's easier to recognize the abuse of a particular attack level than it is to recognize the abuse of 'inashi-able' moves.. something i need to work on.

anyway gl

 

Thanks for the advice... not so obvious really, I just need to keep practicing. Playing against a friend who was just learning to play and only used one throw I tried just blocking until he threw me to see if I could escape and even when I knew it was coming, I couldn't do it.

As for +,. I tend to use the this sparingly and not to deflect. I find that even if it is blocked it doesn't put me at too much of a disadvantage. I also try to chuck in a throw after the initial kick occasionally. Because of this I also tend to get counterhits with the punch.

For I find that it works best in situations where you think the opponent might throw. I sometimes use it after a blocked and when + or + hits but doesn't cause a crumple.

Robin

 

I tried just blocking until he threw me to see if I could escape and even when I knew it was coming, I couldn't do it.

I can't do that, either. In order for me to throw escape i have to be able to buffer the throw escape commands. For example, when i use + , as soon as that second elbow hits (assuming it's blocked) i have a few frames (12?) to buffer in as many throw escape commands as i can while Aoi recovers from the move and my opponent attempts his throw (assuming my opponent will throw).

From my understanding, TEs are defensive maneuvers only to be used when you're at a disadvantage. If neither of you has an advantage, relying on reflexes to throw escape, even if you're waiting for it, is.. well.. beyond my skill level, that's for sure.

It's not like reversals, in which you CAN rely on reflexes if you're expecting a particular attack level (sometimes even if you're not). Most striking attacks are 12+ frames, throws are only 8. Speaking of which, reversal throw escapes are very very nice against people who abuse an attack level and throws (Akira comes to mind).

Another thing (and sorry again if this is obvious).. use down throws every chance you get! Aoi has some of the worst midair combo potential in the game, and the only combos she can switch up on the fly (minus -cancels) are the ones that begin with . She HAS to use trickier ways to inflict damage, and down throws are a good bet against the AI, especially since several of her moves gurantee an (escapable) down throw. +, +, and her mid-kick reversal come to mind.

When i play against human opponents i almost always substitute for down throws, otherwise they will throw escape.. That measly 10 points of damage is better than none at all!

Ok..this is the second to last paragraph (i swear!). Aoi's low attack game isn't very strong (any ideas as to how to use ?), but if you can 'teach' your opponent to block low a lot you'll have an easier time landing middle attacks. Like Akira, Aoi's mid level striking attack game is way better than her high/low. ALSO, when your opponent sees you crouching all the time (using those low attacks), he'll want to use middle attacks a lot more often, allowing you to abuse her (incredibly powerful) +. However, beware low throws (!) and keep in mind that since Aoi's striking attacks are, for the most part, easy to reverse (no shoulders, few spin kicks, etc), the more you rely on a particular attack level the more often you will get reversed. Even relying on two (rather than three) attack levels makes it lot easier to guess which reversal to pick (50% rather than 33%).

Anways i'm sorry i don't mean to ramble and turn this into an Aoi thread.. i know you said you play as three characters, but there isn't much discussion about her and she's the only one i feel i know well enough to talk about, so..

 

Oh yeah.. as for , thanks for the advice! I'll have to give that a try..

 

[ QUOTE ]
If neither of you has an advantage, relying on reflexes to throw escape, even if you're waiting for it, is.. well.. beyond my skill level, that's for sure.


[/ QUOTE ]


If the situation is even then you don't need to do throw escapes because you can just attack them. This works at certain disadvantage situations too (ie, ones where you have a move blocked that isn't a guaranteed throw move.)

 

Thanks, I have been doing as you suggested with the throw escapes with some success. I have been able to escape about 30% of the time after wolf's +, which is a whole lot better than the 1% I was managing before.

 

Oh yeah, is very risky. The only way I have been able to pull it off is to backdash out of range of an attack (usually one of the slower kicks) and use it on their exposed leg but this is still pretty hit and miss.

 

+ sabaki vs kick and knee,I think
So I use it only against Sarah
If it is blocked,you are safe (0) according to VF4 frame data
When the sabaki succeds,I try to throw but it whiffs(opponent still "stunned" by the deflection)...so I think it give +9 adv or more:I do sweep or ++(and forced tactiks)
If the punch of ++, is guarded,you have +3

 

At first I had the same problem you did. But, for me it was at the Gladiator rank. And that was with Lau... with Lau I never got over the hump really. But, with all other characters I learned that its just a practice thing. Just play against the computer enough and you will find you getting closer and closer until you finally start winning a large percentage of the time.

With most people that have this problem, its simple stuff that you need to learn how to do some point in time. Such as throw escapes, and getting good with buffering. Things like that.

 

When you play Aoi, I think the best thing to do is to use + and follow up with ++. If the opponent use a rising attack, reverse it, do +, and use + + +. If they are croushing after +, use ++.
(Some AI's crouch after it and some of them doesn't)

Other combinations I like to use is + and continue with + when they lie on the ground. + also work well.

And when you play against Akira, Jeffry, Kage or Lei-Fei, just mid reverse their asses /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif At least I like use these combinations.

(please excuse my english,if there are any mistakes)

 

I use only against rising attacks (the mid one that´s not a circular). Pretty useless...

 

But they are all easily escaped, no? I know I don`t fall for that shit /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You really ought to practise your elbow cancels /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

See you friday....