Anti - evade

Discuss here of tactics to punish evading opponents.
I'll start with obvious "categories" of actions punishing evading.
Then we will fill comments for each one. Depending of how you use it and why (after hit or block for exemple)

Let's start with
Full circular:
1/
+: LOOONG RANGE / Quite fast / Can open to wall combos
-: High / vulnerable to lows
Pretty simple to use. This move covers lot of options due to range and full circular properties.

2/
+: BT game! / Air born so goes over lows / opens for side turn game on hit!
-: High can be duck / Air born so juggle if punished

3/
+: ... Full circular low?
-: if blocked... You're dead.

Half circular:
1/
+: Mid / Quite fast / Boku stance possible
-: only half circular so you have to check evade habbits and your foot position

2/
+: Air born / Quite fast / BT stance possible after 1st hit / opens ST game
-: High can be duck / Air born Juggle if punished / only half circular so you have to check evade habbits and your foot position / Range

Tracking Strings:
1/ -
+: Covers 2 situations fast attacks because P is 11F moves and evading / leaves you in a good situation if hit / cover ground => RO?
-: Use it carefully , double evade = BACK turned CH!

2/ , , (this one in fact is not a "string" but is used like it)
+: Confusing for the opponent / fast / 2 MIDS / Can enter stance / cover ground => RO?
-: easy to block and punish/evade on reaction

Strings WITH full circular moves:
1/
+:...
-: second hit can be ducked AND punished

2/ ,
+: first move can go into bokutai, pretty confusing. First move covers high options with the second one taking care of evade. Cannot be ducked.
-:first move is a little bit "slow"?

3/
+: first move can go into bokutai, pretty confusing. First move covers high and some extra high (not sure of it) options with the second one taking care of evade.
-: first punch can be punished by a jumping move if made to predictable, opening to dangerous combos. Second can be duscked but not counter hit/punished by

That's all for the moment. Feel free to continue OR edit my notes. Thank you.

 

45 6
what's going on with this...
icons don't appear as icons but as numbers...

20 views no reply...

 

are you using the [ or the : method?


Weird i can do the arrows altought i used both methods.

 

Yup this is it! Thank you Mister and Pana! I'll edit when I get back home!

 

And you can give your method to beat these methods... I know, I know, "solid defense"...

 

1KK to stop them sidestepping. I use 2P+KK as well, and the last hit P connects on yellow counter hit if they've pressed a button, so look carefully and check the hits. You can also switch this string into Boktai or back-turned mid way.
6P+KP as you say, if you do that too much, it is easy to evade, as it moves forward quite a distance on a straight line. I only really use this to end a simple combo near end of round.
4K I have not been using, so I will check how effective that is in matchplay another night. Some people are constantly evading, so you can stop using strings or launchers and just switch to circulars until they do something else.
44KK is quite risky, as just a simple P from them can flip you up in the air backwards flashing yellow, so use with caution.
4K+G I use more as a long range poke. It feels too slow up close. Someone like Akira or Blaze could move to the side, and launch you bad before it clips them.

 

1KK is best used as an anti evade tool but the first hit is minus frames on hit and the second attack can be ducked or countered a using low attack. 3P,K is better and the full circular kick that comes after the 3P is a special high so people can't press a button before hand to counter attack it. If people uses 1KK and they ducked the first low they could counter the full circular kick or launch Pai on whiff. I think 3P,K is a better option here and it keeps people honest if they think they can get the free counterhit on the high sweep kick. With the option to cancel an enemy's evade after dodging the first part 1KK there is always a risk but without risk there is no reward but Bokutai options from 3P can create mix ups that will leave the enemy guessing even if they cancel their evade fast enough. Then there is the charged kick option after 3P as well so many more options to work with using 3P,K compared to using 1KK

 

Thanks.

Concerning 3p,k the Full circular K can be ducked.

So pretty same punishement than 1k k. BUT more options...

Dumb opponents dodging over and over are in facts really sensitive to 3P P 6 P. Wich is a deadly option...

 

The difference is that if the opponent 2P on reaction as 1 example to the high sweep kick with 1KK the 2P will hit for a free counterhit everytime. If 3PK is used it hits the foe everytime if they 2P because it is a special high. 3PK can be ducked but they can't press a button why they do it and the hesitation they have at that time and potential mix ups from Bokutai and Charged Kick/ Charged Kick cancels that come after 3P will make the enemy think even more about how to approach the move. That is why 3PK is better than 1KK as an anti evade tool

 

4K+G is what i use to punish evaders, if they're over-ly evasive but if only mildly- but anoying i use 2KK aka 1KK..lol

Most overly evaders wont duck they'll think they can evade again so 4K+G always hits for me

 

Copy that.

My main objective here is to give options against all kind of opponents.
For the most skilled ones I use string and because the successfull evade on will be punished and guard leaves you at advantage. These two options are powerfull options indeed, so this may seem simple but is not for an opponent to react correctly.

 

Added strings with full circular moves.

Any "tactics" with these moves my fellow pai player???

 

I like using 66G+K>BT 2K too, but it's not as good as other options already listed. 3K>P>K could also be a good string to punish failed DMs and some succesful DM, it also has more range than 6P+K>P too (although it does have a high as it's second hit).

Also, on the first post, wouldn't it be 1G+K instead of 2G+K?

 

Adding BT and other BT moves you're right!
Never thought of I'll give it a shot in the lab.

You're right I changed it!!!

 

I really agree with you guys. I really like to use 4K+G for evaders.3PK i agree is better than 1KK. 1KK is good only for hitchecking to CH. 3PK is better cause to the special high K and like shadowmaster said 3P will make the opponent think more how to approve the move,so with 3PK you have much more options to use than 1KK( also 3PK2 is shiwa special mix up ). Also about the strings with circulars like 2P+KK. that move must be hitcheck, if the 2P+K blocked the following K can be ducked it and you can get punished really hard. That move can be used for oki, is good if the enemy after tech try to evade. Also guys you have to add the 44P. yea is high but is true nitaku really good half circular.

 

Ok guys have you ever played an evader who evade after you have successfully evade?
Like "hey this time i'll evade this string and i'll go for side turned pressure" and the guy evade your next move...

Go for K+G when it hits... it will leave your opponent back turned depending on the first stance situation. GIVING YOU A FREE BT K launcher. Yeaaah it's free. Man this is a good punishment. Pretty situational but can be huge for a center ring situation!

 

@Ben_Lord_Dur
In VF3tb, the low hitting sweep kick is another one, but this move has a slow startup. I think the command for this move is different in VF5 US.