AOi tips.strategy by me()past tekken player)

I gives Aoi help as this board seems lacking.

What my purpose? I don't know really. To keep track of my bad memory and type some stuff down is one purpose. My other purpose is to help newbies and even experts learn a thing or two they may have not known. I for one was expert in other characters in tekken and yet still learn new techniques. Aoi isnt my main but i give help anyways as she reminds me of one of my mains from tekken. I bet you guys can't guess who?

for now I suggest buffering throws escape while countering with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif . So as to cover throw escape while countering.

Tenchi(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif) throw escape can be quite difficult to do. Having to let go and realize throw is common can be quite difficult. But can be done and is a essential technique. Its impossible to tenchi and throw escape at same time and you have to let it go and enter throw escapes. Realizing you are getting thrown is the hardest part. I would think a high level aoi player can tenchi and throw escape very effectively. As Tenchi as every knows the the hold a button counter which is extremely useful.

generally you can try a counter after doing a safe move on hit or block. Tenchi or counter will do fine. Just make sure you buffer throw escape while countering and tenchi requires some practice. Also note that countering will make the enemy consider throwing you. I know when i see counters , I will want to throw so if you can master the technique of ,throw escapes while counter, you can avoid the throws that th enemy will probably do. I think its a powerful technique for aoi players.

Also don't counter randomly. predict where the enemy is going to do and have quick reflexes to counter the slow moves of the enemy. Yes you can guess randomly but make an educated guess of where they are going to attack.

Plus their plenty of other ways in the art of countering as that can take mastering in itself.And Some of the counters can be followed up by ground throws and the down attack which is nice. On experts player use the down attack( /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif) as I can escape Aoi's ground throw relatively easy. Also play around with counters in training to determine when you are guarantee a groudn throw or ground hit. Like high punch i know guarantees it.

Some safe moves are /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.(not as good as VF4 but it still works)
but this move is safe and guarantee on normal hit. Be aware though as i think they can duck the second hit but that where you can cancel with guard.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
my favorite because of distance ,combo off counter hit, and delay the last punch.Its also safe and guaranteed on normal and counter hit.of course on counter hit you can do
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif(don't work on heavyweights)

I believe to use aoi effective you mix up counters,ETEG,Tenchi, Fuzzy guard, and some other moves i list below when you are at a disadvantage in order to gain the advantage. Or you can use this moves when you are equal advantage as well. etc..after a safe move blocked or connects.


I found /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif useful as it side steps. You can do this when you expect an enemy's attack and plus its guarantee from counter hit. (it can counter ppl attacks by a sidestep obviously)Also if it is block you can cancel it with guard or continue the last punch for a mix up.

Couple other useful moves i saw were /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif which is the parry which most ppl know about. Yet another move to counter other ppl attacks. Great parry and stun for a good combo.

another interesting move is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, while it is slow and is a high hit, it staggers on normal hit and will potentially give you the advantage. Use it wisely tho as it can be interrupted.

I don't know. Find her interesting as she is very good in countering the other persons attack and with good predictability can be essentially hard to hit.

 

Aoi's Insurance Plan (Aoi and Throw Escapes)

k4polo, I love the effort. Hopefully it'll stimulate more conversation and even clarification /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Here's a cool little tip:

Semi-Safety with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

Something to know about using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is that if you escape to the side with it (by tapping /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif), you can simplify your throw escape with a side throw escape. If they throw you just a few frames after you've already begun sidestepping, they'll side throw you. So all you have to do is escape with the relevant /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif.

This becomes really useful if you start using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif --> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif as you can then do something like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif --> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (I think that's what it would be if you're on P1 side).

I think you can even buffer the attack, so you might be able to do:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif --> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif --> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif --> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

I think if you get thrown out of the Tenchi, it'll probably be a 0-frame throw, so buffering in the throw escape is worthwhile even if you're doing the attack from the stance.

My thinking behind using Tenchi like this isn't to use the inashi reversal of the Tenchi. It's to create a semi-safe situation when using any Tenchi-able attacks--particularly Aoi's sweep. It's not completely safe, but it narrows your opponents options and gives them another type of controlled guessing game.

Reversal Insurance

Also, if you ever do use reversals, you should always plug in Throw Escapes. It should be a general rule and it's great that you've been doing that. It's one of the few situations where I'll actually try Triple-Throw-Escape-Guard (in most situations lately, I try to just use one throw escape to force myself to guess better, but sometimes will just do Double-Throw-Escape-Guard).

Generally I don't really like using reversals because you get very little reward for something that could have been better handled with block and attack or a sabaki. That said, reversals really are good at discouraging your opponent from doing a specific option (most common is mid-attack) in specific places. And on top of that, Aoi can followup some of her reversals with a guaranteed ground attack or a ground throw.

50/50 Ground Throw Game (nothing new, always worth pointing out)

And I'm glad Sega forced the 50/50 on Ground Throw Escapes. To the best of my knowledge, you can only escape one of them so you do have to guess if someone is doing a guaranteed ground throw on you. Again, to the best of my knowledge, the buffer will only let you escape either /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif OR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, not both (you can't double-throw-escape ground throws). But in general, as you said, it's best to take the guaranteed damage.

I sort of wish Sega would do that with the low throws, but it's fun to do multiple low throw escapes. And I have to admit, I don't want low throws to become an overpowered option. They're already great as they are.

 

Aoi's Elbows

I'm definitely no expert on Aoi, but here's more of my incomplete two cents. Which makes it one cent I guess. ELBOW EDITION!

Aoi's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is now Lion's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (except you can do it immediately from crouch)

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif has been nerfed in that the second punch (which we still call an elbow despite not being an elbow) is now high. The problem with this is you run the risk of your opponent ducking under the second punch and getting a 0-frame throw on you, a mC attack that will probably combo (just about every character has a couple of these), or a simple slap in the face.

But as you said, K4, it's still a good sequence. Aoi players just have to be more careful and it's been covered but I'll recap what little I know of it. If the first elbow hits, the second hit is guaranteed and you can hit-check this if you're fast enough. You should hit-check it. Guard-cancel is an option, but I personally feel that if you hit with the first elbow or know you will hit with it, just go ahead and hit with the second punch.

My problem with going for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is that in VF5, your opponent is probably trained to duck after the first elbow and your opponent will probably see the G-cancel despite its intended purpose. At least if they are fast, and I do play against fast opponents. So in general, at least for me, I've ended up using Aoi's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif like most other elbows and the followup is only used if I hit with the elbow.

So if the opponent blocks /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, I know it's -5 and I can CD-fuzzy guard, ETEG, or one of the options I really like in Aoi's arsenal is her /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif sabaki. I'll use this if I see that my opponent regularly uses an elbow, high punch, or midle punch attack after blocking an elbow. Also, if the opponent throws, I believe this will clash because they'll throw you before the midpoint of the attack--so have your post-clash/neutral game on alert for that.

Personally, I like using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif after clash. Depending on what I think the opponent will do, I might G-cancel it.

Back to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif(blocked) --> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, you do not want to do this if your opponent is the type to whore out low punch. It's obvious, but one of the easiest things to feel out about an opponent is whether or not they're a low punch whore.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif -- The new /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (the 4-hit string wonder that's often guaranteed)

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is the new /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. It's HHMM and to top it off, if an attack isn't crouching and it's counterable, then it is generally high punch counterable. At least if the players are close enough (yeah, Aoi not having super range can be annoying sometimes). The G-cancel game is pretty strong here because the "second elbow" is a mid attack and therefore a legit threat.

You also have to love the fact that both the first and second elbow attacks are G-cancellable.

This sequence is a great way to kickoff the Aoi rush imo. At least in guaranteed situations or as a simple way to punish a standing whiff.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif -- The lesser /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a move I use more often in VF5 than in VF4, simply because of the change made to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. Right off the bat, the advantage to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is that it's 13 frames execution (really fast) and it's half-circular (opponent must dodge to the back to evade it). On top of that, the punch followup is mid and also half-circular.

Not confirmed, but I think the opponent has to dodge twice if they dodge the first attack and you do the second attack without pause. Not that I really encourage that. The deal with this move for me is that despite being a high attack, it's an attack that's not that hard to throw out there because of its speed and half-circular property. There are situations where it's guaranteed (though /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is probably the better option in such situations).

Being -1/+3/+6 makes it a decent single attack to pop out there sometimes and you can make flowcharts based on whether it gets blocked, hits, gets dodged, or even whiffs.

The big downside is if the second part is blocked, you're at -13 so a high punch or a throw are guaranteed. And there are lots of guaranteed-high-punch based games in VF5 (so lots of initiative given to your opponent).

In my current Aoi game, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is my new /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif when it's not a guaranteed High Punch situation, my opponent has some tendency to dodge to my front side, or when a high punch might not reach out enough to punish a whiff.

I wish there was a record mode in VF5's training mode. I've never tested to see if /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif would whiff if I blocked Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif in the middle of the ring. If that whiffs, I would then use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in that situation because of the space created by blocking Akira's attack. Again, it's really fast at 13 frames of execution.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif -- The Bitch Slap of Doom (how dare you high attack/throw whiff Aoi!)

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a great move that I think Aoi players need to master. If your opponent whiffs a high attack or a throw, I think this full two-hit string is guaranteed which builds up to a nice combo. Sorry I don't play Aoi enugh these days, but I'm certain this is guaranteed (SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM OR DENY IF THIS SEQUENCE IS GUARANTEED ON mC or in general).

Two tips on "whiffed high punishers" like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:
1) Check out the combos listed either in Blackbook (threads) or HK VF or videos you see of high level Japanese players.
2) Learn common places where a high, or especially a special high attack is used. There are some signature sequences that people use in general that involve a high or special high.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif(MC)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif -- A painful elbow from below

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif(MC)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is a nice little attack, though probably not as nice as it once seemed. It's a 15 frame attack, so keep that in mind since this move's purpose seems to be MC. Also, always plug in the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif if you use this move (commit it to muscle memory since the timing is consistant). Heck, it'll work as a buffered throw escape if they try to do certain throws if you whiff this attack. If it's blocked, it's -9 and standing high so you're in a true-nitaku situation where you can't crouch a throw. In this situation I would generally do ETEG, some unclashable "high-reward" attack if Aoi has one (I don't know if Aoi has one--I think /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif would clash, but I'll have to test it) if I am certain opponent will throw, or just simply defend well.

Again, just my "one-cent" on Aoi's elbows. I too would like to see the Aoi discussions kicked up more, and now I have the urge to go back and read Nin's Aoi posts for VF5 (I miss your posts, Nin!).

-Chanchai

 

Re: Aoi's Elbows

I don't think /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a natural combo on Mc, the second hit is only guaranteed when the first one staggers ( that is to say, on MC)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is a special high, si it can beat low punch when you have +4 and more. I like the long stagger it gives. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif if the foe doesn't struggle out fast enough, and if he does, dash throw him. You can replace the dash with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif~/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif~/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif cancel and throw /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Aoi has some interesting Wall Game.
When the opponent is back to wall, mix /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif~/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif cancel throw.
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif gives a wall stagger and you can do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif which crumple, then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and down attack.
Same if you parry a punch or an elbow attack what make the foe face to the wall: a /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will stagger him, and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif will crumple.
Theses set ups work in VF4evo too.

When you are near the wall, try to push the opponent next to the wall with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif,/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif to make him face it. After that, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is free and if you are lucky, the knee follow ups from /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif will hit him for a wall splat (if the third punch causes a wall stagger): continue with a wall combo like a second /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif followed by a pounce.

 

Re: Aoi's Elbows

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif strings

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif used to force the foe to block all the three punch on guard. But now in VF5, the third /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can be ducked even if you block the first punch. But I find out that if the 3rd /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif hits (on MC, but in normal hit too maybe?)after the 2 first punches guarded, the knee or the sweep from the string is free (if you don't delay it).

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
I see it a little like the Eileen's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif.
- If the foe tries to punch or low punch Aoi after the blocked /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif , the elbow MC him for a juggle:
(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifMC ; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif closed stance
(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifMC ; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif open stance
Of course, theses 2 general combos above doesn't work on certains characters: against Goh for example, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif works both stance, and against Vanessa, you can only do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + light down attack.
You can just finish the string too.
- If the foe tries to evade the elbow, or just stay guarding, cancel the elbow and throw him.
- And if he ducks, the elbow staggers him and the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif follow up is free.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
- Useful to punish blocked low attacks at -15.
Does 5 points more than the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif for this situation, and has better reach / range than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
- guaranteed after punch / elbow / side kick parry, when you can't use a launcher.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
leads to BT. Even if it listed as -2 on block, a BT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (11 frames) still beats opponent's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, I don't know why...

Some evade moves

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
tends to evade mid attacks at medium disadvantage, for example:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif blocked: try to evade to opponent's back with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, if he does an elbow, the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif doge and hits him. But personally, I wouldn't use it too much since it doesn't avoid low attack.

I like the BT evade /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gifor/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, it can save you from some guaranteed attack when you are BT after a throw (like Lion or Shun Di's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, Akira's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif )
Of course it's a mix up for both of you and still risky for Aoi.
Nevertheless, keep in mind that if the foe tries to throw you during your evade, it will become a normal front throw, not a back throw. Sometimes he will expect a back throw so you just have to escape with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

As for YY stance evade:
1P side: if evade with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif , escape with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
if evade with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif, escape the side throw with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

Side crumple combos

After a side crumple with OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif;/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif;/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif do the job.
The most damaging combo I find is OM /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to the opponent's front; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif;BT/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif;/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif -> 72
works only on Lion and Vanessa

 

Re: Aoi's Elbows

Thanks a lot for your input, Kingo!

A lot of food for thought for my Aoi and it's very much appreciated ^_^

Aoi's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif --> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif has always had some weird properties to them since VF4 I think. So that's probably why it beats low punches, and I'm happy it does /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif But that sequence will always be some weird mystery... especially since VF4 version b had crazy glitches with that move (it was an overpowered move in VF4b, but was toned down a lot in VF4c).

-Chanchai

 

Re: Aoi's Elbows

exactly why i made this thread. Nice work guys Provide my little input and learn more in process. I post a little more tomorrow. As I see a lack of support for her.

 

Re: Aoi's Elbows

As a VF noob, I'm shocked at the lack of Aoi info. She's been the one character I wanted to play the most if I ever took up VF, and now I finally did it.

So here's what I need to know as a beginner: Tenchi seems to be mentioned quite a lot, but I have found little use for it yet. Any basic tips, apart from the more advanced stuff above?

And since Aoi doesn't really have a lot of juggles as far as I can see, I need to learn how to throw. But I seem to get punched out of my throws all the time, even after safe moves. Do you guys have some basic throw setups and tech catches that new players can use to build upon?

Maybe this should be a separate thread...

 

Re: Aoi's Elbows

I'm not very good at using Tenchi yet, but I tend to think of it like a generalized reversal. Against a number of characters (akira, vanessa, lei-fei...), it's pretty easy to predict when some long range mid/high attack is coming at you. Rather than take the reversal guessing game (especially if you don't know those characters well enough to see which exact move is coming), just go into tenchi. It's fast enough that you can usually input the stance as they launch an attack, and still get the parry... but be very wary of overusing it at first, since it's a bit unsafe to get out of the stance if you don't get a parry.

As for throws... at a beginner level, I would say always use them on reaction after you block, it's generally never safe to follow your own full combo with a throw. Just train yourself to watch for when your opponent uses a move that puts them at enough disadvantage that you have a guaranteed throw. It can take a lot of practice just to figure out which moves those are, and respond quickly, so don't get too discouraged at first. Of course, once you have some of the basics worked out, and can land a few throws, that will all change. Opponents will tend to throw evade when the it's guaranteed, so you'll need to start working them in off of guard cancels and such.

One of my favorite techniques is conditioning an opponent with PPPdK, then guard cancelling the last kick into dP+K+G once they learn to always block it.

 

Re: Aoi's Elbows

Thank you, Sorias, that's exactly the kind of thing I need. I keep trying to throw after blocking (it's a reaction from my DOA days, I guess), but it's just no good after a basic punch string, for instance, since the opponent is not at any significant disadvantage. Furthermore, I was playing my buddy who's a decent Goh player, and he kept doing two combos into throws. The most annoying one but me in a crouched state, and then he threw me for massive damage every time. Once I learn the throw escape that will be history, of course, but I'm wondering if Aoi has anything similar, since it does come in handy. I watched a vid where an Aoi player kept doing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and then dashing in for a throw, but maybe there are stronger options?

I will definitely remember Tenchi. It seems to work wonders when you do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif into Tenchi and then follow up quickly when the opponent has fallen for it.

Conditioning seems to be a large part of playing Aoi, and it's one of the things I'm worst at. But I like a challenge /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Re: Aoi's Elbows

Goh is specifically built to combo into throws... His P+K > P+G is just a straight up combo in command training, I don't think it even counts a hit throw, so the timing is pretty relaxed. Aoi, on the other hand, isn't really a throw heavy character, though she's not really light on throws either. To deal high damage, I'd say focus on crumples, and then learn how to juggle people. f,fK is a chin crumple, b,bP+K is a head crumble... and then she has a fairly large number of moves that only crumble on counter hit, you should probably test them out in the dojo. Check out the black book combos list on this forum for some simple juggle strings to follow the crumple attacks with.

Aoi is definitely built around yomi. With all her reversals and move variety, she has a ridiculous advantage if you can correctly guess what you're opponent is going to do. But, the reverse of that, is that her "high" damage combos and throws tend to do slightly low damage relative to the other characters, so you rely on succeeding in the guessing game to perform well. Unfortunately, that means she relies more heavily than any other character on having a working knowledge of your opponent's move list. Just that fact makes learning her a slower process, but it is very rewarding when you get it all down. No other character can get excellents as easily without ever having to block.