Are Counters Cheap

+, +, +
I just wanted to hear the everyones opinion on the matter one of my roommates swears counters are cheap b/c they are free damage. He was like it sould be a chicken method like there is in tekken.

 

take a look at the success rate and damage of reversals and ask that question again. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif note: if you're hitting it too often someone needs to re-work their strategy. Generally reversals aren't worth the risk.

 

VF is different from tekken, grabs here are much faster, and is the main damaging move of many characters, reversals are worthless against grabs.

Also, double-limbed attacks here can't be reversed.

 

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Jerky said:

take a look at the success rate and damage of reversals and ask that question again. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif note: if you're hitting it too often someone needs to re-work their strategy. Generally reversals aren't worth the risk.

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hi

 

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InspectorTrue said:
Also, double-limbed attacks here can't be reversed.

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Aoi can /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

I agree with the above poster. For that matter, the word "cheap" has left my vocabulary, and you shouldn't use it either. There's no such thing as a cheap character or a cheap move, just a poorly balanced game. Take a look at DOA's counter system, where your chances are 1 in 3, the counter window is relatively large, and the payoff more than negates the risk (you guess wrong twice, take some damage, guess right the third time, and counter for more damage than you lost)

I remember back in the day when throws were considered "cheap". Noobs thought they should always be safe in their Fortress of Blockitude, and if you walked up and threw them, they looked at you like you just called their mom a whore.

 

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Cuz said:

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InspectorTrue said:
Also, double-limbed attacks here can't be reversed.

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Aoi can /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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Uh, Aoi can?
I'm an Aoi player, and I'm pretty sure you can't reverse Lei-Fei's double fist for example.

 

sure she can - just not from behind

 

In terms of risk/reward, reversals suck. Generally, the only time i use reversals is when i know what's coming next (after vanessa's (ds) or - it's always a mid kick next - although i think this is changed in FT) - and when i just want to plain embarass them.

and then there's reversal throw escapes which i find pretty difficult to do.

 

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dit: no moran

 

How much you willing to pay for them?

Because they aren't cheap.


*shish*

 

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and then there's reversal throw escapes which i find pretty difficult to do.

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RTE can help you justify that TR sometimes.

 

YES they are cheap you cant ceevn block them

 

But if you're playing predictable, you deserve it.

 

Tell your roomate that if he wants to play Pai too, and if he wants to be predictable with her against you, he can Chicken your reversal with +. Also, Vanessa's High and Mid reversals in Defensive Style can be Chickened with +

but in general, yeah, mix it up.

Bryan

 

People crying about cheap this and cheap that are just making excuses because they are too lazy to overcome their problem.

 

fyi you cant chicken out of any kick reversals iirc

 

"fyi you cant chicken out of any kick reversals iirc"

the Pai vs. Pai one is the only one I know of. It's been there since VF3, just really rare. Looks like in VF4, you can also do it against mid kicks, just as long as you get the "High" reversal animation, not the pulling down Middle Kick reversal animation. 20 Damage.

Also, with Vanessa's chickens, even if you miss the first window, taking damage, you can still hit + after she breaks your arm and get up in place, avoiding a Down Attack/Okizeme.

Bryan

 

being as I developed my whole strategy on Aoi's reversal defense i would feel inclined to say "heck no reversals aren't cheap at all"
heck my cousin who plays that Aoi a lot (and need I say beats her a lot) I don't think he would even think reversals are cheap.
but that is just me point of view on this

 

Cheap? Hell no. Just play a good mix-up game, and no one will be able to reverse you.
All In all, I generally only do counters when I have alot to lose, like ringouts or wall bouncing. And sometimes right at the start of my opponent uses the same command to start a round.

The Risk/Reward for reversals isnt good enough to be completely worth while, but if you know its comming, it is indeed free damage.