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Are Counters Cheap

Discussion in 'General' started by Enigmas002, Sep 16, 2005.

  1. Enigmas002

    Enigmas002 Member

    [4_][P]+[K], [1_][P]+[K], [2_][P]+[K]
    I just wanted to hear the everyones opinion on the matter one of my roommates swears counters are cheap b/c they are free damage. He was like it sould be a chicken method like there is in tekken.
     
    legumelad likes this.
  2. Jerky

    Jerky Well-Known Member

    take a look at the success rate and damage of reversals and ask that question again. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif note: if you're hitting it too often someone needs to re-work their strategy. Generally reversals aren't worth the risk.
     
  3. InspectorTrue

    InspectorTrue Active Member

    VF is different from tekken, grabs here are much faster, and is the main damaging move of many characters, reversals are worthless against grabs.

    Also, double-limbed attacks here can't be reversed.
     
    legumelad likes this.
  4. Siyko

    Siyko Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Jerky said:

    take a look at the success rate and damage of reversals and ask that question again. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif note: if you're hitting it too often someone needs to re-work their strategy. Generally reversals aren't worth the risk.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    hi
     
  5. Cuz

    Cuz Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    InspectorTrue said:
    Also, double-limbed attacks here can't be reversed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Aoi can /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  6. Spanky

    Spanky Well-Known Member

    I agree with the above poster. For that matter, the word "cheap" has left my vocabulary, and you shouldn't use it either. There's no such thing as a cheap character or a cheap move, just a poorly balanced game. Take a look at DOA's counter system, where your chances are 1 in 3, the counter window is relatively large, and the payoff more than negates the risk (you guess wrong twice, take some damage, guess right the third time, and counter for more damage than you lost)

    I remember back in the day when throws were considered "cheap". Noobs thought they should always be safe in their Fortress of Blockitude, and if you walked up and threw them, they looked at you like you just called their mom a whore.
     
  7. majinai

    majinai Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Cuz said:

    [ QUOTE ]
    InspectorTrue said:
    Also, double-limbed attacks here can't be reversed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Aoi can /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Uh, Aoi can?
    I'm an Aoi player, and I'm pretty sure you can't reverse Lei-Fei's double fist for example.
     
    legumelad likes this.
  8. Siyko

    Siyko Well-Known Member

    sure she can - just not from behind
     
  9. vanity

    vanity Well-Known Member

    In terms of risk/reward, reversals suck. Generally, the only time i use reversals is when i know what's coming next (after vanessa's [6][P][K] (ds) or [6][P][P] - it's always a mid kick next - although i think this is changed in FT) - and when i just want to plain embarass them.

    and then there's reversal throw escapes which i find pretty difficult to do.
     
  10. Painty_J

    Painty_J Well-Known Member

    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS- SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

    dit: no moran
     
    legumelad likes this.
  11. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    How much you willing to pay for them?

    Because they aren't cheap.


    *shish*
     
    legumelad likes this.
  12. sanjuroAKIRA

    sanjuroAKIRA Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    and then there's reversal throw escapes which i find pretty difficult to do.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    RTE can help you justify that TR sometimes.
     
  13. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    YES they are cheap you cant ceevn block them
     
    legumelad likes this.
  14. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    But if you're playing predictable, you deserve it.
     
    legumelad likes this.
  15. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    Tell your roomate that if he wants to play Pai too, and if he wants to be predictable with her [K] against you, he can Chicken your reversal with [P]+[G]. Also, Vanessa's High and Mid [P] reversals in Defensive Style can be Chickened with [P]+[G]

    but in general, yeah, mix it up.

    Bryan
     
    legumelad likes this.
  16. Genzen

    Genzen Well-Known Member

    People crying about cheap this and cheap that are just making excuses because they are too lazy to overcome their problem.
     
    legumelad likes this.
  17. Painty_J

    Painty_J Well-Known Member

    fyi you cant chicken out of any kick reversals iirc
     
  18. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    "fyi you cant chicken out of any kick reversals iirc"

    the Pai vs. Pai one is the only one I know of. It's been there since VF3, just really rare. Looks like in VF4, you can also do it against mid kicks, just as long as you get the "High" reversal animation, not the pulling down Middle Kick reversal animation. 20 Damage.

    Also, with Vanessa's [P] chickens, even if you miss the first window, taking damage, you can still hit [P]+[G] after she breaks your arm and get up in place, avoiding a Down Attack/Okizeme.

    Bryan
     
  19. FinestStorm

    FinestStorm New Member

    being as I developed my whole strategy on Aoi's reversal defense i would feel inclined to say "heck no reversals aren't cheap at all"
    heck my cousin who plays that Aoi a lot (and need I say beats her a lot) I don't think he would even think reversals are cheap.
    but that is just me point of view on this
     
  20. Horsepool

    Horsepool Well-Known Member

    Cheap? Hell no. Just play a good mix-up game, and no one will be able to reverse you.
    All In all, I generally only do counters when I have alot to lose, like ringouts or wall bouncing. And sometimes right at the start of my opponent uses the same command to start a round.

    The Risk/Reward for reversals isnt good enough to be completely worth while, but if you know its comming, it is indeed free damage.
     

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