Article #1 Beating Low Punch in Disadvantage

(This article's written by Hadoken(Kage). He's known as a VF scholar due to his extensive study in VF's system. )



As you get used to VF’s system and slowly advance to intermediate level, you will find some situations irritating. That is because whether you are conscious about it or not, you’ve learned the concept of frame adv/dis adv in VF, which is similar to a turn-based simulation game.



Speaking of the irritating situations, a move that you throw out in a situation can get beat by your opponent’s certain move. (We normally call them “moves with propertiesâ€Â). Since the end VF4 Evolution era, dealing with the moves that have weird properties has become more and more important than things like executing EDTEG.


Lession 1. Beating low punch in disadvantage


http://media.virtuafighter.com/media/tutorials/beating_lowp.wmv

(Thx goes to Myke for hosting the clip)


Jacky 6P-> 6P
Due to its characteristic motion, Jacky’s elbow doesn’t get caught by 2P. An important part is you don’t guard after your first 6P gets blocked until you do the second 6P. This only works in open stance, and in close stance, 6P, backdash, 6P is recommended.



Goh 2P-> backdash->K
Only to hit with a standing K, this flow chart is easy to execute, and Goh will have a favorable distance with a stagger after it gets hit. Since Goh doesn’t have many options in a close range, it is an useful technique to learn.


Sarah: 6P, bachdash, Serpent(2P+K, K)
Sarah’s backdash serpent is powerful and fast, making it useful in a -4-+4 situation.



Kage: 6P->3P
When Kage’s elbow gets blocked, a buffered 3P can beat both opponent’s high P and low P. Before using this flow chart, first set up a situation by doing something like 6P, Jumanji stance P+K to bait opponent’s 2P.


Kage: 2P+K
Kage’s 2P+K in a range of +2-even beats opponent’s low P. It is not risky even when it gets blocked, so when you get used to situations and use it correctly, it will be an effective move.


Pai: 2_4P
Pai’s FC4P can beat a high P, a low P, or an elbow. One of those magical moves that Pai has. (It doesn’t work on everyone’s elbow.)



Lau: 6P, 66P+K
By using its motion’s characteristic, this flow chart beats P and 2P. Basically against Lau, think twice or three times when you were to do a 2P. (Lau’s 8K is also a 2P killer)



Brad’s slipping
Brad’s slipping will be explained separately.


Of course there are many more tricks, but I’ve summarized ways to beat 2P this time. Beating elbow or dealing with more complicated situations will be covered in the next one.

-Hadoken-


Source: www.vfdiary.com


2nd article is coming soon.

 

VFdiary Archive Discussions

This seems great and thanks for translating this. I have a question however: Much of this info gives questions and opinions - do you prefer to keep this thread clean from those and just be a resource or is discussion mode on? /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/KiwE

 

I think this should be stickied, and there should be individual threads for possible future articles. The first post is the article, and then we can discuss it.

Maddy, your work is greeeatly appreciated!

 

nice find and translation maddy!

 

Random thoughts.

Alot of this seems to be based on the ability to backdash from the 2p so maybe a helping explanation on when you can do just that (things that effect like distance / stance etc) as a completion would help. Something similar to what Myke wrote about elbows.

Aren't all characters going to be covered? Is Brads slipping properties covered in another article series that isn't translated by you yet Maddy or is it coming?

Alot of classic things aren't covered like Sarah 4464k Against 2p, Goh CD shldrm, Aki shldrm open stance after 66p (-3), Pai 4466pk etc. Do they pick certain moves for a special reason? I find it abit weird that things that are backdash > attack are even covered in "moves with properties" in the same breath as those exellent Kage things which I consider to be just so. Backdash attacking seems kinda common compared to some of these things

Some things aren't arguably perhaps really that common in actual gameplay aswell like people doing against Brad like that after elbow before seing him go into actual ducking etc motion or 2p'ing against a Jacky as is special high. Dunno, am I the only one curious about some stuff and should stfu?

/KiwE

 

hey, is that hadoken from team nomercy? -- i used to watch him play alot back in my teens /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif i think he also uses shun very well too!

btw -- i noticed there are quite alot of beating low P at disadvantage techs in the final tuned master guide. hadoken didnt cover characters like wolf or jeff.

in the FT guide, it shows you that wolf's works in the same way as goh's flow chart (and like goh, he also lacks options in close range) and some other wolf stuff was on the anti-BS vid i uploaded including blocked lowP -- backdash SS. infact both wolf and jeffry's stance proporties will make low P completely whiff even after blocked moves in close range, but this requres the user to not do anything for a few frames, even holding guard would get the opp's low P to connect in most cases.

good job on the translating maddy. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

First off; In no shape or form was it something negative to Maddy (who is one of few who actually contribute to this site still) from me. Hell I semi worship the guy for his commitment. It was more a introduction to if we should fill this list out or give opinions on it (giving opinions on it is in a way questioning / discussing the content so I -do- feel there can be things gained by doing so). If there's a thread about lp beating why not make it extensive?

I'll list some thing then; which I already have, that I think could be nice to know. People are ofc free to say they don't agree with what I say / think it's wrong ( I want to learn) as long as they motivate why. I've never claimed to know alot about any other character then Brad (and even then I know shit as compared to Japanese players) but I'm intrested in learning.

First of, I think it's important to differentiate between moves with special 2p beating properties for many reasons. I've marked them with a * here. While you can backdash from a 2p at -4 for example you can not backdash from the throw bla bla. A move with special 2p properties will in this case be RN aswell. Normally however the opponent would use something like elbow to threaten with at the adv but anti elbows are to come.

If you can backdash from the 2p a backdash > elbow is a standard trick to use and can be applied for most characters who get good normalhit results from it (as in a stagger).

Brad (gaurded)>
Kage (guarded) etc.

Another standard trick for those with crouchtrows is either CD back > throw or simply do nothing etc.

I have a question btw about how general characters 2p's actually are when doing some tricks (we all know about lions)? Brad should slip towards the back against some chars for example when slipping 2p's. Another example would be aki doing a (gaurded)>m-shldrm forward. He will "win" over Sarah's 2p and float her but it won't work against Jacky.

Whatever.., need to run of so I'll just list some imo good ideas (most of which have been listed before by for example cappo and bk);

-::Beating LP's in diss::- * = special property.

Brad; +, (knockdown)
Brad; + (stagger)

Aoi; *>+ hitthrow (eats 2p's weirdly enough)
Aoi; . (stagger).

Aki; *m-shldrm (mother of all 2p murders all his other options fade in comparision right?).

Goh; (LW's pref knockdown).
Goh; (Stagger). You need to do to not get the out. Better stagger situation then backdash K imo due to recovery.
Goh; shldrm.

Jacky; +, (the classic flowchart).

Jeff; + (payoff)
Jeff; (more safe as you can hitscan first hit).

Lau;
Lau; *
Lau; *+ (+2 frames)

Lion; * (smalldiss only)
Lion; *+
Lion; *+ (I think)

Pai; * (up to -3 I think so after guarded 6p etc prob just a range thing).
Pai; + (up to -3 aswell)
Pai; (-4 as after a blocked 2p)

Sarah; (stagger, +4 on guard).
The said + from a backdash is kinda flaky imo, specially in open stance the second hit. From the clips i've seen Jap Sarahs tend to use this more.
Sarah; (small diss). As after / guarded for example.

Shun; *+ (nice)
Shun; *+
Shun; *lowkick? I suck hard with Shun so please help.

Van; * (sabaki)
Van; (stagger)

Lei; *+etc?
Lei has stances etc and I have no clue.

Wolf; + (big payoff)
Wolf; >tks?
Wolf; * (Up to -4 or even more I think).


/KiwE

 

Interesting post indeed.
I would like to contribute by ginving some info for Lion (my main) :

firts off, as KiwE mentioned + and + can beat + but it won't work after standing mid disadvantage (elbow or + blocked) but only after your + has been blocked. Though the recovery is the same (-4) it seems the crouching position plays a major role in the deceptive properties of those moves.

Then I would like to talk about one move that is IMO highly underestimated : +.
While its frame stats kindah sucks its deceptive properties are great.
This moves allows you to dodge ,+, elbows and sometimes even sidekicks.

+ (blocked) + willl beat everyones low punch and some elbows (Lau, Jacky, Kage)
For other characters "standard" elbow like Aoi or Sarah in open stance u need to buffer a small back dash after your move has been blocked (cacel the BD with the attack).

This Makes a flow chart like elbow blocked, ++ ininteruptable by P,2P, Elbow AND throws which kindah limits u're opponent options after blocking elbow, +, +P or anything else with mid recovery.

+ can be even more nasty against Kage since sidekick (blocked) + will beat both + and elbow (and of course throw) even at -7. Which makes it a good RN/bullshit move lol.
This trick also works against other char like sarah but the sidekick needs to hit from medium/long range and u need t buffer a short backdash here again.

Be carrefull not to use those tricks against Pai as they don't work against her +

This move really has some good deceptive properties I've seen Chibita using it in a few clips after beeing hit by 2+P (MC) and going through kage FC+P or elbow. A kind of RN option select move

 

[ QUOTE ]
Aki; *m-shldrm (mother of all 2p murders all his other options fade in comparision right?).

[/ QUOTE ]
Akira ++ and ++ will beat the opponent's up to about -4 disadvantage, so you can use it after , +, or is blocked. The same thing applies to ++ in open stance only, but it's not that reliable after .

punishes the opponent's up to about -4 disadvantage also. Lion's has longer range, so it doesn't always work against him. It's better to use it against him in open stance.

If Akira's is blocked, a handful of moves will punish the opponent's .

, , +, , SPoD, or again. All of these will minor counter their counter attack in this situation. You can also use a slightly delayed or . Against lion it's better to delay double palm if you want to use it.


Lei: or+ usually beats , but at close range it's better to use the direction that evades towards the opponent's stomach. If you use it that way, it almost always beats it.

Another way to beat low punch with Lei is: , then +


Basically, most characters' safe technique is: low punch -> backdash -> mid kick.