Attn:Chanchai

How was your trip to Cali? That is all...

Bent-Lee


"Granted my brother, we're good, but people can
still see us."

 

Great Trip

My trip to Santa Clara was great on a personal basis. Met some people I had chatted with for a long time, friends, met with Clopin and Choiboy. On those aspects and in general, the trip was a blast.

On a VF basis, the trip was fulfilling. I only played VF3tb for 1 hour and 15 minutes. Maybe that's not enough for many, but I shouldn't complain, it was still more than worthwhile.

Final impressions on VF3tb arcade after playing it for an hour and 15... The game's great. I already commented on the overall speed of the game as being slower (no effect on inputs, just timing events). I guess where this felt a bit different (this can very well be my imagination) is in timing a throw on a staggered opponent (when the stagger is off), I ended up whiffing quite a few throws because of this, but other factors can be involved right? I could be used to strugglers, or this, or that, or maybe it really was the game speed, but it was not at all a bad thing. Honestly, I think I like the arcade better.

Why do I like the arcade better? Yeah, I miss a few of the combos which feel standard, yes floating Pai and Sarah feels different, etc... the game is a tad slower (same speed as ob as far as I know unless it's an incremental difference--Jesse claimed tb arcade is 2% faster than ob if I understood him correctly). I think I end up liking the arcade because of the speed though. Faster does not always means better, usually just different. However, perhaps I'm getting better as a player, or maybe it really is the speed... but the reduced speed (well, you know what I mean so don't give me that dc came after tb thing, I'm making reference to the fact that I was "raised" on dc) gives your mind an increment of time to adjust to the situation better than it seems in dc. Perhaps that's why the very few players I know seem to focus so much more on yomi-based mind games with good reaction and mechanical play, whereas my observations tend to lead me onto dc generation players seem a bit more machi or less aggressive and rely on reacting almost completely at times (of course there are many wonderful exceptions such as Nelson as far as I can tell). This is not a fact or anything, just how I see things. When I was playing Choiboy, and keep in mind that he doesn't play the game much at all and it's been probably a year or more since he's played seriously, I noticed that eventually I got to the point where I caught myself in the nick of time from falling into habit and so I ended up breaking that and indirectly conditioned Choiboy into some traps. The game is not at all slow, but it just felt like I was engaging much smarter or mindful rushes or action. When I hear about how a lot of old-schoolers play and what not, it sounds like they tend to have played more aggressively, but more mindful. Maybe it has to do with the difference in timing, maybe not.

In any case, a lot of issues I had to deal with was getting used to the stiff as heck (but not as stiff as a heavy springed-Mas, no I'm not picking on you Luber) sticks on the SVGL machine. It was nice of Choiboy to acknowledge that to me (didn't want to sound like a bitch on a first impression hehehe). I enjoyed playing Choiboy a lot. He was indeed rusty so I can't judge his past skill level (it's a ridiculous concept anyways, how can you ever judge someone's past skill level, in any case he deserves a lot of respect for his skills and sportsmanship as a competitive gamer). However, by far, my only experience being KBCat and NYG2 but I don't recall being stuck by Pai's inashi so much and at the appropriate times too. Would like to see more players make good use of that, but then again, not many people played Pai much at NYG2 anyways.

Choiboy was a great guy. I then met Clopin and he was also a great guy. I just hope I didn't cause him any inconveniences, but I think I really did a lot (can you say "phone harassment?" I wouldn't be surprised if at some point he started associating me with telemarketers). However, great great guy who definitely seems to (and I'm sure he does) know a lot about the game. Gave me a lot of good information, I'm also hoping I might be able to get a copy of max battle hehe. Unfortunately, we didn't get to play tb at all (arcade broke when we went and we never met up with Big Daddy). However, it's all good, I got to meet Clopin and I was just happy with that.

Overall, the trip was wonderful. I tried focusing on the VF related stuff for your sake. I did spend a lot of free time thinking about VF and how to improve my play, what to focus on, etc... and it was great. I mean, somehow, the matches at Sunnyvale really did spark something in me to think of things more clearly.

-Chanchai

 

For Clopin's info....

Clopin, Half Life was built around the Quake 2 engine!!!! I'm not lying!!! Yes, skeletal modeling was a new feature of the Half Life upgrade and so was 32 bit texturing, but don't deny it was built on the Quake 2 engine Anyways, just felt like being silly.

-Chanchai

 

Re: Great Trip

-->"Perhaps that's why the very few players I know seem to focus so much more on yomi-based mind games with good reaction and mechanical play, whereas my observations tend to lead me onto dc generation players seem a bit more machi or less aggressive and rely on reacting almost completely at times..."

I would have to disagree with this (speaking from personal experience). Compared to almost two years ago (when we played OB arcade hardcore), I feel we have gotten better overall...especially in the yomi/mind game area. The DC version has allowed us (I think i can speak for everyone) to explore and understand the game system better, and as a result there is less reliance on reaction based gameplay carried over from VF2. Judging from old tapes from Boston/NY gatherings and the Toronto gathering one can easily see this (the play overall was pretty bad by todays standards). I don't think game speed had anything to do with this, as much as the DC version allowing everyone to play a lot more. It is a no brainer that playing MORE leads to better yomi and improved reaction.

Players in Japan are supposedly very machi now. As players get better and evolve, their ability to defend naturally gets better. Since virtua fighter 3 is mostly a defense based game, I feel playing aggressive most of the time isn't very smart...

Just my 2 cents...

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

Re: Great Trip

personal experience, indeed. you're comparing the past to the present, on a plane where skill (supposedly) increases with time; worse, you're comparing two completely different scenes and two completely different games. apples and oranges.

so what if the japanese all play machi? really, so fucking what? does that mean we should? should we all judge our own scenes by the ones 12,000 miles away from us? judge our own players against ones we'll never fucking know, much less set eyes on? fuck japan, i'll play vf3 how *i* like, and i'll make my opinions based on what *i* think of the game.

VF2 in it's old age (in asia) degraded to nothing more than akira vs akira battles where it was all SE battles and seeing how many PKG's they could get into floats. VF3 doesn't sound much better four years later in japan; twitch all day and play "who makes the first fuckup". yaayyyyyy. you can have that if you want; VF3 is what you make it (it doesn't HAVE to be a defensive game; attacking more often CAN be more "smart"), and i like the VF3 i've seen and can still find occasionally much much better than the one we're faced with now.

also boston videos? wtf? boston never taped any of their stuff. there was that thing by shang but that was years after the scene had pissed away; not much more than a bunch of dipshits having fun.

 

Re: Great Trip

When Yupa, Rich, Jason (with Joanna, i think) came down to play, Andy had taped the play. On another occasion, we went up to boston to play, and that was videotaped as well. Toronto gathering was taped also.

<font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

<font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>

 

Re: Great Trip

Chanchai, please DO NOT lie and do not write about what you don't see or understand!! I know that people can sometimes say something wrong, but you seem to say things which you are sure that you don't know. I don't think it is wise of you to do that. If you keep doing it, people will think that you always pretend to know things and talk about them as if you knew them.
In Japan, people play VF only at the arcades, but we use 'machi' a lot these days. It does not have anything to do with the difference between DC and the arcade version. It is just that the way we played evolved in that way.
With regard to Pai's inashi(fP+K), the reason people don't use it anymore is that it got a lot worse in tb. In VF3, when Pai used it, she could reverse most of single hand attack and also it was impossible to throw her when she was in motion. Clearly, this was made by mistake, just the same as other moves in VF1 and 2. So, they made changes such that one can grab her when she is in its motion. Also, it takes a lot longer to recover from the motion of inashi. It used to be a lot quicker than regular high or mid reverses. This is why people do not use it very often. The reason your friend used it could be because he hasn't played tb enough and played the game out of his habits in VF3. Or, just to tease you
Honestly, I don't care about people like this; there're always rational ones and irrational ones in any group of people.

 

Re: Great Trip

i'll play vf3 how *i* like

Then I'm sure you won't like losing.

 

Re: Great Trip

Alright, I didn't mean to spark an evil thread here... My apoloies on it...

First of all, I probably shouldn't have made comparisons that I did, I don't have the experience between the old and new online VF generations. Nor do I have a level of expertise for my observations to be taken seriously at all.

I personally don't think one form of play is better than another. I personally do like zoning which is a machi tactic.

In any case, I don't even know what to describe the current VF players' styles as, but I don't have any problems with it. I had a great time and everything in NY and I was very impressed. Sorry to give the wrong idea. Maybe I don't even know what I'm saying anymore, but I didn't intend to offend anyone.

It was a very weak analysis that shouldn't even be relied upon whatsoever, just a thought. Probably shouldn't have been posted. In any case, I do love the DC version, just ended up liking the arcade version just a tad better.

Anyways, I'm babbling again, but by machi I didn't mean "bad." I'm not of the type to hate it or anything. And I just meant it was "more machi" than the impression I had of old-schoolers. Didn't mean to imply it was worse.

As for what Adam was saying, well, as I said, it might not have anything to do with the game speed, but for some reason I just felt that the game speed was a potential factor. I don't plan to attack the DC version at all, it's what I sorta know and love. But I do feel that I would prefer the arcade version if given a choice, but I wouldn't turn down an offer to play it on DC either.

On a side note (now this might be potential for an evil thread), things inside the game are inside the game. Players of different regions and generations will find their own way to them. Call them novelties if you will. In any case, they were in the game from the start. Everybody has their own way of finding them, and especially on the net, it's usually found by a player or another of one generation or another. Old-generation people would have seen it years ago while newer generations like myself would associate it with some of the newer players. Point being, it was in the game already, I'll give it credit to the person that "introduced" it to "me" but I wouldn't get offended or discredit another online generation or what not if they mention that it was done before. On the same note, I'd prefer it if it wasn't spoken in a "nose-up-in the air kind of tone" but because it is online, we just tend to read into things when sometimes it's not intended. I hope that made sense. In comparison, perhaps a modern player of Chess "discovers" a novelty line. He gets credit for putting the variation within the eyes of a more modern public or group. I don't find anything wrong with that regarding the group. However, perhaps a Chess player who knows his games and history will recall that Morphy once played that line (probably unlikely with how Chess is played differently, but this is just an example of fiction). Now, how I would think of it is that I wouldn't discredit the two players. Modern player introduced it to me, it happens to be something that players who know more of their history with the respective culture or heritage happened to know already. Big deal, fact is, it's in the game. I will still credit both though. I wouldn't want to take it to the debate stage and all. No offense to the older generations, but I don't think this sort of situation should be scoffed at. It doesn't make anyone stupid for realizing "novelties" from a newer generation player, nor can I say it makes them ignorant. Perhaps they didn't know much of the past, but I think it would be ignorant to have such expectations that they would know that. In any case, it's not even what you guys mean in those situations I assume, perhaps just making a special mention that it was done before, but I wouldn't want to use it as a form of criticism.

Anyways, rant rant rant, that's just what I was thinking.

As for Adam and the players at NYG2, I really did enjoy watching you guys play and meeting up with you guys. Sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way. I did not mean to discredit your form of play. It's valid, requires a lot of patience and deception to crack (imo) and it's a game/images/icons/smile.gif You guys are still some of the most excellent players I've seen (I know, it doesn't say all that much) as people, gamers, and VF players, etc... Best of all, you guys are still great with or without your skillz/images/icons/smile.gif

-Chanchai

 

Re: Great Trip

Again, apologies for writing a message that made reference to groups I don't know much about.

I ended up writing it in enthusiasm and so I neglected that I was talking about something I don't know much at all about.

I shouldn't even speak of the old-schoolers because I have no idea how they play the game. Besides, most of them are rusty now so unless there is videotape or anything, it would not be wise to judge them on how rusty many of them are.

Thank you, anonymous, for your response though, it was a more direct answer to things I've wondered about than many people would give me and I appreciate that.

In any case, I think my enthusiasm of late has been taking me into the direction I feared most... Talking about things I have no clue about and leaving an impression that I do (despite the warnings, but such things would do more to annoy).

Anyways, I hope I haven't caused anymore of a rift between some VF gamers. At least we all love the game/images/icons/smile.gif

BTW, my apologies if it seems like I "lie." I speak from a perspective of a newcomer who's barely encountered many VF players. Perhaps I am completely misinformed or misunderstanding, but I don't ever intend to lie. Just thought I'd clarify. If it was regarding a situation, maybe I was delusional? If it's about my apologies and what not, I'm not lying about those either. I'm just open to being of a misinformed or perhaps even wrong perspective. Sometimes, I'd rather post something that is potentially wrong anyways for the sake that if I devoted a thread on the topic of question alone, it seems that it is practically unlikely that anyone will respond to it on vfdc. I keep it open that I might be wrong as an invitation for you to correct the potential misinformation, perhaps people can benefit with clarity? Often times, I mention things on the strong impressions I get from VF discussions with different people. If I twisted something someone mentioned, I strongly apologize, but by posting it I do take the responsibility for what I said. If I think a move is good or maybe even should be used, it was because somehow it seemed like it was a good move and perhaps others have thought so and expressed that. Anyways, if I offended anyone, it was not intended and I hope that can be understood.

In any case, my thinking is that I will more likely get a response of clarification if I post about anything. So at least I can have some form of information by posting about something I may even be unsure of. At the same time, I don't intend to declare stuff. Anyways, I already made the statement...

-Chanchai<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chanchai on 9/11/00 08:28 PM.</FONT></P>

 

Re: Great Trip

uh..
huh?

 

Re: Great Trip

that was me, if there was any doubt. was out on cookie-less computer.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

Re: Great Trip

right, boston never did tape it's play. and, outside of memories, a few hours of random, small non-gatherings on tape (one much later than the rest) is hardly a way to judge one era from the next (which is impossible in the first place).

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"

 

Re: Great Trip

Thank you, anonymous, for your response though

Haha...I can only take a wild guess who the poster would be, posting from the exact same location Adam did. Who else lives in Andy's place?

Joking aside, I think the poster simply forgot to put his name...as he is not the kind of person who wouldn't hesitate to preach things right in your face *grin*

 

Re: Great Trip

Don't worry, I thought he might have chosen to be anonymous, I know exactly who it was myself. That particular person is the only one that tells me I should behave this way or that way. It's okay, it's a perspective thing and I like to bend the laws of etiquette at times (I know it bugs him to death at places like a cafe and what not). In any case, it doesn't bother me or anything, it's all in good intentions of course and I appreciate it. Point was well taken anyways. I'm still gonna act the way I do, and I don't see that many people getting upset over it/images/icons/smile.gif

-Chanchai

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Chanchai on 9/12/00 04:54 PM.</FONT></P>

 

Re: Great Trip

adam - i don't know if you've checked your private messages on vfdc, but please do so; or send me andy's current email address or phone #. this is in regards to the monitor i got from him. i still owe him the money for it and have no idea where/how to send it to him - and the monitor doesn't work, as well. so i need to work something out with him.

--
"A chem bla deshembla blurr fuh bli fouzh"