Can Tekken Influencers Give Their Honest Opinions?

I just watched several Youtube Tekken influencer reactions to the new Jun Tekken 8 trailer. You could see the influencers cringe as all of the projectiles, on screen graphic explosions, obscured Jun's character animations. Most of them (there were a few exceptions) said Oh this looks great! But their body language did not match what they were saying. You could literally see the WTF? on their faces

Are the influencers afraid they might alienate some of their followers and subscribers if they give their honest opinions about the fireballs, projectiles, explosions, flying, 90 ft upper cuts, and over-the-top graphic whirlwinds? Or are they worried that Bandai-Namco might stop supporting them?

Remember what happened when the DOA6 youtube influencers complained about the new Hair Dye feature added to the game.

https://www.digitallydownloaded.net/2020/03/koei-tecmo-is-ending-ongoing.html



The DOA 6 community basically lost their game because too many streamers complained. Is that why the Tekken Influencers are putting up with all of this Tekken nonsense

Tekken 7 removed from the game:

• Survival Mode
• Replays
• Team Battle
• Ghost Battle
• Advanced Single Player AI programming
• Several Fan Favorite Characters
• In depth Story Mode
• Nice Customizations

They replaced all of this with generic one size fit all lackluster customizations, Over-The-Top Rage-Art Animations and sound effects and 3 years of DLC forcing the community to pay extra to put the characters back in the game that they took out. And still Tekken 8 sold millions of copies And the streamers streamed thousands of hours

Instead of Bandai-Namco investing the money to do the proper amount of new motion capture to get the combat animations and more importantly contact animations right, they skimped on the motion-capture and used large fire balls, and hit sparks to hide the edge detection and edge collision problems that occur when one character comes in contact with another. Now, it appears Tekken 8 is taking all of this to an entirely new level. And it seems the Tekken influencers and streamers don't necessarily like what they see but they are (most of them) afraid to say anything

But if they don't say anything now, where will it stop I mean what are those projectiles coming out of the ground in Jun's trailer? WTF? with those heat attack graphics? Man what's happenin to tekken

 

Tekken 7 I believe is a fairly overrated game since it nerfed and sometimes outright removed some of the most beloved flavor Tekken had to offer. I genuinely don't understand why the Tekken community actually considers Tekken 7 to be one of the best games in the series. The reason no one is speaking up about it is because Harada's most infamous message to the Tekken community was "DON'T ASK ME FOR SHIT". And the community isn't asking Harada for shit for the most part.

 

Yeah, that stuff is over the top.
But that kinda stuff, was always in Tekken, but it kept getting worse in later games. As Harada himself said, tekken was always an arcadey styled fighting game.

Tekken 2 has Devil and Angel shooting laser beams. Tekken 3 had fire breathing alien Ogre monsters, and baby dinosaurs like Gon, that breath fire. And of course, fart bombing characters like Panda, Kuma and Gon, that destroy opponents with one fart. And of course, boxing Kangaroo's and dinosaurs, that have unblockable punches. Then later on, Devil Jin with laser beams and flying attack moves. Unknown with magic ground claw attack moves. Eliza the vampire girl with Terry Bogards/Geese Howards power wave, double Ray do ken magic attacks. And the list keeps going on.

 

@beanboy yea you're right I have a working Tekken 2, 3, 4, 5 ,6 and 7. I compared all over the last couple of days. And with each version the hit sparks, explosions, whirlwinds, blasts, fireworks just got more and more dramatic and over the top.

The martial arts animations remained more or less the same, with minor improvements here and there. So as they removed single player features and two player features they added bigger and more spectacular explosions and pyrotechnic

They could have added more defensive animations, more evade animations, more escape and block animations with each version. But they didn't do that. They could have added better and nicer motion capture with each version . But they didn't do that. Instead they added more and bigger projectiles, fireballs, and color splashes

And the Tekken community has so far applauded the changes. Maybe this is really what they want I'm really worried the next version of Virtua Fighter is gonna follow all of this bull$#it

Virtua Fighter has been converted to RGG's Dragon engine and RGG thinks all these splashes and explosions look good. It ruins the Judgment games for me

 

I think you need to accept that what you liked about Tekken in the early days wasn't really what the majority of people liked about it or have come to like about it. IMO Tekken has only become more Tekken over the years. It's really more of everything Tekken was originally about. I think they try to appeal to a wide range of people by having a little bit of everything. All the characters are highly targeted at certain demographics etc.

I too mostly liked the martial arts flavour of the early games more. I find myself wishing it was more like that still too, but then maybe that's just because we look to Tekken for a VF-like fix, since VF has been absent. If VF was still active (hopefully it will be soon), I think you'd be more accepting of Tekken having a more broad focus.

Also, are you aware that https://act-age.jp/category/works/ has worked on a lot of the Tekken motion capture? This company is formed by people who worked on VF in the past. If you check their info, they seem have been partly formed via partnership with Sega and Namco and have worked with both in recent times. I don't think the quality of their motion capture is up for debate really.

There was a tweet by them recently (https://twitter.com/Ochan_ACTAGE01/status/1635218845328891911?s=20) that sparked a big outburst of hope for VF6 due to the similarity in moves being performed. It was denied (vehemently lol) and said to be their personal work... but I wouldn't be surprised if they are somehow involved in VF6, and are probably working on T8 as well.

Also, chill on the hitsparks! Go play VF4 vanilla on PS2 and remind yourself that had an option for hit sparks as well. Give them some benefit of the doubt and at least wait until we get something concrete for VF6 before getting all doomsday about what they did in VF5US. If they make the characters glow like they do in this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfzzsbZFmzI then you may have a point!

 

@kurdt_the_goat I largely agree with you on most of this. And also agree with this next statement but with some caveats

I don't think the majority of people have commented on Tekken 7, or the previews of Tekken 8. I think the streamers, twitchers, podcasters (a.k.a the most vocal/visible) people are giving the appearance that the majority like the direction that Tekken 7 took and the direction that Tekken 8 appears to be taking.; The streamers, twitchers, podcasters, discorders etc have a vested interest in towing the Bandai-Namco-Harada-san Party line. For some of them its how they make a living. They're all in (whether they like the game or not) Some have tried to go back to a previous version (but they were victims of their own successful promoting of the current version)

Agreed the game has evolved (or devolved) And with enough marketing and conditioning customers can be pushed to accept many things.

I do know that some of the influencers haven't been completely honest with their viewers and subscribers with respect to how they actually felt about Tekken 7. There are a few very well known Tekken influencers that prefer previous versions of Tekken, but don't push that preference on their viewers. Nobody wants to take the risk or chance of loosing viewers or subscribers.

@kurdt_the_goat your points are well taken and appreciated. But I do know this, following the 2D fighters is not the smart long term play for 3D fighters. Currently Tekken is looking and playing more and more like a 2D Fighter. The 3D fighters should innovate in the direction of 3D animations, movement, motion capture, new 3D offensive interaction and new 3D defensive interaction. 3D Fighters don't have the environmental limitations of 2D fighters and therefore should not resort to the gimmicks and work arounds that 2D fighters use to create excitement. 3D fighters should distinguish themselves by doing only what a 3D fighter can do, as opposed to coming up with 3D imitations of 2D fighter gimmicks. There are a lot of directions that VF can go in but meters. hit sparks and comeback mechanics shouldn't be among them.

Virtua Fighter started the 3D arcade fighter. They introduced ring names, player profiles, stats, stored replays, announcers, ring outs, customizations, all of the offensive and defensive concepts that are taken for granted today in Tekken. Virtua Fighter introduced legit AI opponents, Virtua Fighter innovated advanced tutorial modes in 3D fighting games. Since Tekken appears to be chasing the 2D fighter dream. This is an opportunity for Virtua Fighter to take back the crown. But I am very concerned with what happened in VF5US. It was not at all indicative of the Virtua Fighter series.

@kurdt_the_goat I hope you're right

 

I'm glad you mention this as i think it's a very interesting topic. I don't really agree or disagree with you... This may get long but hopefully I can make a point with my entire fighting game history/backstory lol...

We can say that fighting games had 2 pivotal moments in their history - Street Fighter 2, and Virtua Fighter. I would add Smash Bros. too, but it's my opinion that when it first came out, it was more widely accepted as a party game. I think it most definitely innovated in fighting games, but for the sake of argument I'll leave it out. There are other important fighting games too, but i'm talking about those that have literally defined the progression of the genre since their inception. Fighting games would broadly be categorized as 2D or 3D as a result.

I first got into fighting games at the time of Street Fighter 2. From there, I wanted to play every other fighting game there was and I played a tonne. I only had screenshots to go off for Virtua Fighter though, I never saw it in arcades. With limited funds, I had to decide between a Saturn or PS1, and the decision was mostly made for me by a lack of availability for Saturn (in Australia). So I think the first 3D fighting game I actually played was Toshinden, on the first demo disc. Tekken just had a video, but I later played that after hiring it out. And I absolutely hated it. I had played so many 2D fighting games by this point that nothing about it was working for me. The stilted movement, the unfair attacks while grounded, the difficult moves (It wouldn't be till much later that I realised why a fireball motion was so much harder to perform in Tekken!). I never bought it, but a friend got Tekken 2, Soul Blade and so I played them and felt basically the same. I played VF2 at the arcades maybe twice. As you'd know, VF2 was a dollar muncher in no uncertain terms. I chose Kage and got slaughtered! I couldn't do anything but the basic punches and kicks. I had had enough of 3D fighters. I couldn't stand them! I believed 100% that 3D fighting games could simply never be as good as 2D fighting games. It was inherent to their nature.

Time went on and Soul Calibur hits. My friend got that too and I gave it a go. It still wasn't clicking. By this time i'd mostly put it down to being so familiar with 2D fighters that I just couldn't un/re-learn how to play in a different way. It'd also become rather annoying at this point, as 3D appeared to be taking over, and i still WANTED to get into these games!

One day i'm on lunch break and go past a Toys 'r Us, and they have a PS2 playing VF4. I figure what the hell, start playing and another guy comes along and picks up the 2nd player pad. It was then that 3D fighters clicked for me. The game was not like i remembered VF2. It was fast, responsive, I was pulling off moves (that i'd later discover I could have done in VF2... lol). Obviously games prior to VF4 had these attributes and I didn't see them clearly for whatever reason. But what stuck with me was that I felt like finally, a 3D fighting game had reached a level of speed and responsiveness that matched so much of what I liked about 2D fighting games.

Some time later, Street Fighter 4 comes out. I had played SF EX and so you know, I was pretty tepid on the idea of another 3D but 2D Street Fighter. But it's Street Fighter, so of course I gave it a go. While I won't get into the detail of how SF4 was appraised or how SF has shifted over the years, I think we can generally agree that SF4 was not SF EX4. It played well enough like the 2D games despite the 3D graphics.

Can you see where i'm going here? Maybe i'm making no sense. I haven't really delved into the finer details of how each fighting game was in one way or several, influenced by those that came before it.

I consider VF and Tekken more like brothers, and that it was almost by chance that VF happened to come first, but they were both basically inevitable, due in no small part to Seichi Ishii I think. It may be hard to imagine, but you could say that Tekken 1 and Tekken 2 were like sequels to VF1. The main differentiator is the control scheme. Ishii would later jump to Tobal, and change it again with a high/mid/low system. This guy was an innovator, no doubt. But I feel it wasn't until later - VF2 and Tekken 3, as the focus became how to become a great fighting game, instead of simply representing realistic motions in 3D. VF2 and T3 are the turning points for the series but why is that? I think the main reason is because they adopted a form of SF's input buffer and actually started to feel good to play as a result.

There are interviews with Harada where he says at some point, the Tekken team realised they couldn't keep trying to be VF, they had to go their own direction. I'd be amongst the first to criticize Tekken for copying VF over the years, but it doesn't paint the whole picture. These series diverged long ago, and by taking an idea, but implementing it in a different way, in a different system, the end result is not the same. It's not really copying. This is how things progress over time.

I was sat there watching the Tekken 8 system overview video thinking to myself "Ok, so they're ripping of KOF's max mode now. I guess there's no VF so they'll copy some 2D games!" It's fun to joke like this but ... It's not going to feel like Max mode in Tekken. It's going to become it's own thing when it's in Tekken. Certainly, after 30 years, I don't think it's remotely easy to come up with an innovative feature in any kind of fighting game. So i should cut them some slack!

There are really countless examples of aspects that have come from one game to the next. You would never say that VF copied Art of Fighting by including dashes right? (i'm not actually certain AoF was the first...). Was VF becoming more 2D then? Or when the 3D fighting games got a proper input buffer? Or when they incorporated combos over 3 hits? Conversely, by this point pretty much no one is upset that SF has adopted 3D graphics. The game is still 2D yes, and 3D was inevitable one way or the other, but really... it owes the graphic presentation to all the other 3D fighting games that came before.

The 2D/3D line is pretty blurred right now. They've kind of converged haven't they? I don't think we've seen all that 3D has to offer, but a part of me wonders if maybe there was some truth to what I thought as a kid. Is 2D inherently better? There's certainly a lot more 2D games now, did they "win"?

I mean, how 3D is VF really when you think about it? You don't see a whole lot of all range movement. Over time, i came to think that VF plays more like what my ideal 2D game does, than any of the actual 2D games i used to like more did! What is that saying!?

Ultimately, it should come down to whether it's fun. So wait until T8 is out and give it a try! And if there's one thing VF has taught me, its if you don't like the new game (since the damn thing doesn't exist!) you can always play the old ones.

On the topic of meters tho, fuck meters. They better not be in VF6, or else it's not VF amirite. I'm being sarcastic but truth is, I don't want them as much you don't. I wonder if it's partly because, it has simply been unchanged for so long, it seems more wrong than it would otherwise? I don't remember being pissed off when Super Turbo/Alpha added meters. Maybe I just wasn't so old and grumpy!

Should there be no meters in VF for ever and ever? I can see how from a design point of view, it is somewhat limiting to keep an overly strict vision of "What is VF?". It has in fact loosened over time as it is, something that happened gradually. Maybe Ishii looks at VF5 and shakes his head when he sees normal gravity. All the old VF2 pros are still hung up on Evade button. All the stuff that has changed has expanded it too.

Maybe meters can work within "What is VF?" or maybe what that is will expand some more. Just hope that the gate is being kept well guarded by Katagiri and Osaki! Let's wait (and wait and wait) and see

 

You took your time to type it., I've taken the time to read every word of it I do appreciate your perspective and the history you've brought to the discussion. I think this discussion ultimately will help clarify what the real issues are for 2D/3D game fighting game development and possible future trajectories for both.

These are the primary two points I would like to dig into a little more at the moment.

One could legitimately argue that the most fun version of these 2D and 3D fighting games is the situation where we have 3D character models and graphics but 2D mechanics. The 2D mechanics, buffering, speed, action, keeps things fast and exciting and the 3D models of the characters and environments give the games beauty.

IMO this is the direction Tekken has been moving in for some time. They want the 2D crowd and 2D money and they are endeavoring to give the audience the best of both worlds by having 2D concepts, mechanics, (in some respects movement) but 3D motion capture and 3D graphics. Its not unreasonable to think that in that sense 2D fighters have won

But let me give you another angle or perspective and another trajectory for 3D fighting games. I'm suggesting that 2D fighting games and true 3D fighting games are completely different animals with a completely different trajectory. I'm suggesting that innovation with 2D fighting engines in a 2D space or 3D space has a very different trajectory than innovation with 3D fighting games in a 3D space and 3D environments.

If I'm a fighting game developer an I have true 3D models, motion capture, physics engines, and 3D space and these are the assets that I have. How do I package it? How do I sell this capability? Who do I market it to?

Once you have true 3D movement, and 3D models with a more or less realistic physics engine (i.e. when I hit or kick characters don't float forever and have legitimate response to the attacks) What you end up with is realism of one degree or another. Oh no
realism == simulation

3D models, 3D motion, 3D environments, 3D spaces and a game's physics engine automatically equal realism. The better your 3D models, motion and spaces are the more realism that gets presented. As a game developer how do I sell this?

Of course the easy answer is I can sell it in boxing games, karate games, MMA games, wrestling games, street fighting games. This is where this kind of realism automatically has a market.

But the 2D fighting game community does not see these or even recognize these as fighting games. They're simulations The game developer that make those kinds of games are all about sports not about fighting right Wrong! This simulation effect (or realism) is just what true 3D fighting games (any 3D fighting game with a realistic physics engine) would look like. You can't really have true 3D character models, true 3D motion capture, a 3D quasi realistic physics engine and have the game not look like some sort of simulation

Fighting game fun as defined by the 2D arcade fighting crowd has an element of speed, surprise, and exhilaration from colorful visual and audible outbursts all combined with the skill of controlling your character, and your opponent's responses with no necessarily connection or only a tentative connection to reality. There is an anime, fantasy, super hero, even super natural tinge to the whole 2D fighting genre. In a 2D fighter anything and everything is possible, fun, plausible, and desirable. Its the ultimate competitive escapism with a good dose of skill thrown in

True 3D models and movement on the other hand are bounded by the expectation of the eyes and ears and our knowledge of how the world works. When you're playing a 3D fighting game, where the fighters are modeled after humans, and the movement is modeled after humans, and the environment is a location where humans would or could possibly fight,there are very different expectations of what the game play should be like than there are in a 2D fighting game that has no requirement for realism beyond 3D character models. If you violate the expectations in a true 3D fighting games, you end up with comedy and disbelief and a game that's not taken seriously

Fighting game fun as defined by the 3D fighting crowd is not defined in terms of speed, surprise, or the unexpected, or the fantastic. To the contrary. For a 3D fighting game, fun is defined by the possibility of pulling off spectacular but authentic damage to your opponent all the while using spectacular but authentic and legitimate defense on your part. Because true 3D movement, models and physics requires fun to be defined in and based in at least quasi-realism, it becomes a matter of doing the spectacular, and amazing, within the constraint of reality. It becomes a tight rope walk between the amazing and the comedic

Of course true 3D fighting games immediately bring to mind realism and simulation. Because that is what they are by definition

The problem with Virtua Fighter, along with Virtua Tennis, Virtua Racing, Virtua This and Virtua That is the gamer's expectation once the movement and models, and enviroment are portrayed realistically. If VF had used 3D character models and had not went for realism in the 3D movement and environment we would not likely be having this exchange. But because they did use the Lockheed technology to help them achieve various degrees of realism, now we have a packaging and marketing problem.

I have 3D models, 3D movement, 3D physics engines that support that, how do I sell it.

3D Fighting Games such as Def Jam Fight For new York, WW2k20 are example of packaging 3D models, 3D movement, 3d physics engine in a fun and engaging video game context. Its not that the game developers were more concerned about the notion of simulations than Midway, Namco, or Sega. Its just that the technologies they're working with come with a certain amount of realism as a function of the expectation that comes with true 3D and the human experience of how the world works. 2D engines, mechanics, physics innovate in an entirely different direction than 3D motion capture, and physics engines. Tekken 8 is trying to have its cake and eat it too. Some of us are honest and we cringe when we see the potential realism smashed into smithereens. I have seen the cringe on some of the Youtube influencers face as they watch the reveals. Their verbal support for Tekken 8 is betrayed by their facial micro gestures that screem cringe.

Now for the 2D, 2.5D, and 3D arcade world , the Def Jam games, WWE games would seem slooowww, and clunkyyyy.. un fun like fighting under water. But make no mistake about these games sold millions of copies. I don't want this exchange to degrade into a which community is bigger, or sells the most, thats not the point

Its just that Virtua Fighter stood and stands at a cross roads, it could go the route of having some 3D visual elements with 2D mechanics (satisfying the speed demons) or it could go the route of 3D visual elements with 3D movements and a 3D physics engine (no floating) and go the route of Def Jam, WWE, UFC, Fight Night Champion, etc. These 3D fighting games have sold millions and millions of copies. The 2D/3D hybrid games have sold millions and millions of copies. There are large audiences for both and some people (like me) are part of both audiences. I personally think that VF would be better off going for more realism rather than less. VF has been for the most part rejected by the wider 2D fighting community. VF is seen as an oddity in that game space and always will be unless or until it transforms itself into something that no longer resembles VF. The VF community loves the realism (to an extent) but they also want to be accepted by the 2D/2.5D hybrid community. I don't think that ultimately works for VF. VF needs to embrace its true identity and go full on 3D models, 3D motion captured movement, 3D environments and fun but realistic 3D physics engine. It should innovate away from the 2D mechanics, meters, and concepts of Street Fighter, Guilty Gear Strive, Mortal Kombat, and now Tekken 8 and more towards the innovations that are happening in true 3D fighting space. @kurdt_the_goat where as you started off with a strong history with 2D fighters and found your way to 3D arcade fighters, I'm just the opposite I have far more background with Fight For New York, WWE, K1 Grand Prix, Pride, Fight Night Champion 4D boxing, UFC games and other true 3D fighting game engines and I ultimately found my way to Virtua Fighter and 2D games. So we both see this same story from two (I believe legitimate) perspectives. If VF is to truly grow and become a thing, it needs to turn its back on all of its 2D heritage and become the Virtua that it was destined to be from the beginning.

 

You make some good points! I must admit though, I haven't played any of the games you mentioned or really anything like them apart from a few much older wrestling games (that never grabbed me). To tell the truth, I'd hardly even seen footage of the games you posted, honestly I was quite taken aback by how realistic UFC 4 looks there! Is it fun though? I'm sure it is to some people but to me it's not game-like enough.

I think you're right, both of our points of views are valid. I have mostly developed an affinity for fighting games through movie representations that again are more of the quasi-real, so this may have shaped my perspective on games somewhat. Also, I think there's a bit of a Japan vs Western sensibilities in the design of things going on as well.

I mean, I don't think Virtua Fighter will ever be anything like the UFC game overall, mostly because of that sensibility thing. Perhaps it would incorporate some aspects of it (already has in some characters) but I think it will always retain the game feel as a priority. In that regard it may be no different to Tekken aiming their characters at various demographics and becoming more game-like over time. Tekken has just iterated more times, so now it's further away?

I've no idea how much those "sport" fighting games you posted sold. I wonder what the overlap is with game-like fighting game sales? I do know that Harada came to the conclusion a long time ago that the market for people who like fighting games is rather limited. This is why they included CG movies, stories, extra modes originally; so that they had wider appeal and would not fall victim should fighting as an interest fall out of favour completely. He's pretty smart to have realised this so early if you ask me
https://news.denfaminicogamer.jp/interview/180428/3

There's also a few interesting interviews and such from over the years that touch on the realism subject.

Yu Suzuki has mentioned several times that his games weren't simulations (apart from F355 Challenge):
"Mine is a game that pretends to be a simulation, so it's not a pure simulation."
https://news.denfaminicogamer.jp/projectbook/virtua_fighter

Makoto Osaki on VF5:
"To put it simply, we want the player to feel the character's pain, for example when you do a roundhouse kick, your opponent goes in air. That body is pretty messed up with its face looking one way and the body facing the other direction. In real life that would never happen. We were convinced that those motions would enhance the overall experience and increase the level of satisfaction when playing. That was and still is important to us"


Masahiro Sakurai actually has a lot of videos related to this discussion as well.

This one talks about the exaggeration of hit sounds away from realism. You can certainly tell in the simulation type of game, hits can give the impression of having NO impact a lot of the time because of this. It's pretty interesting.


This one is on a different genre but talks of the importance of exaggeration of animations:


This one actually goes right back to VF1 contorting the bodies for more effect


There's more to do with hit stops and so on, the whole channel is worth a watch if you haven't already!

While looking for that Yu Suzuki interview above I found another one I forgot all about. All of these are great reads.
Harada: "However, as a game, it was clearly stated in the proposal I mentioned earlier, but the Tekken series that came out in the 90s was always a 2D fighting game."
https://news.denfaminicogamer.jp/interview/210317a/2
In this way, maybe Tekken 8 is more true to its roots than anyone thinks!? It's fun to think about.

I don't know if Google's listening in on me... but this appeared on my feed this morning. It's pretty remarkable AI animation. https://www.reddit.com/r/StableDiff...i_transform_real_person_dancing_to_animation/
Maybe this is the future of fighting games?

 

@kurdt_the_goat Thanx! These interview and references are priceless. I learned a lot about both Tekken, Harada and Suzuki and VF that I didn't know. This is very very good stuff Harada's interviews provide an incredible amount of insight into his thinking on the Rage and Heat systems. And his discussion of the era of "watching" and "spectating" is just priceless. Thanx again. There is so much in these interviews and videos, I will have to go through them all again to make sure I didn't miss anything.

I don't want Virtua Fighter to become a UFC game. We already have UFC games and they are state of the art. Also UFC games are adding more modes that move them in the direction of arcade fighters (for those fans who enjoy that kind of fighting experience). So in that regard I can play certain modes in UFC and get my Virtua Fighter fix with far more realism than VF has. Keep in mind Virtua Fighter has fairly realistic depictions of

• Kickboxing
• Wrestling
• Judo
• Karate
• Muay Thai
• Tae Kwon Do (in a Jeet Kun Doo diguse)

And the UFC has all of these styles and more and takes them to places that VF's engine can't go. So in that respect I don't want VF to become UFC. I want VF to innovate in its own space.

The arcade days are gone. The arcade business models are gone. DLC and microtransactions are only tolerated in limited amounts before the fans revolt. So the VF innovations cannot just be about grinding money from the player.

At the end of the day Harada is right in that interview. Fighting games are becoming or have already become a spectator sport. Creating excitement and enjoyable spectating experience for both the player and the spectator is key. How does Virtua Fighter create the excitement and bring the audience along? How does it make the player and the audience feel the opponents pain, and the winner's victory? That is where I'm going. Virtua Fighter needs to innovate in 3D character interaction with new ways to engage its inherent realism and authenticity while simultaneously being juxtaposed with the spectacular and the amazing.

Everything depends on what Virtua Fighter does with its 3D physics engine. It would be worth RGG's while to look at UFC, or WWE, or Undisputed, or SIFU (All modern 3D fighting games) and see some of the possibilities for creating excitement and audience empathy without using rage arts, heat arts, hits sparks or any other trope or left over artifact from 2D fighting games. I play Virtua Fighter, Tekken Soul Calibur and feel the exhilaration of the match. I also play WWE, FFNY, UFC, and Undisputed and feel the exhilaration of the match

@kurdt_the_goat you're probably right VF might not change much in the direction of true 3D fighting games but that's a shame. And maybe Sega/RGG have really done the best they can do with the title, and have made all the innovation they can, and all that's left is to squeeze a little more money out of VF series

I do know this., that with regards to modern day martial arts, the spectating public is far more into realism doused in the spectacular and amazing rather than the fantasy and unlikely tinted with realism. If the fighting games like Tekken, VF, MK, are going to really get to the masses changes will have to be made

For point of reference:

https://gamermatters.com/sifu-sales-pass-2-million-copies/

 

It's not a secret influencers can't be 100% honest, "access" is how they pay the bills, you would end up shilling if your job depended on maintaining access.