Choosing the right moves: How to not get launched when evaded.

While watching the most recent NYC stream archive, I heard the commentators say that they noticed JP players don't use a lot of the characters' moves. They wisely attributed this behavior to the fact that evade+launch is very strong in VF and FS, in particular. Also, Tricky has recently taken up a project to determine just how punishable strings are when evaded. To complement Tricky's string-work, here are my notes about choosing the right move for a given advantage so as to be nonpunishable if evaded.

The concept is quite simple. Since normal evades take 23 frames to complete and normal-hit launchers (knee-class) are 17 frames, then any move with 49 or more total frames is launch-punishable no matter your (non-guaranteed) advantage: 23(evade)+17(launch)+9(max nitaku adv)= 49.

Any time you attempt a single, non-string, non-circular move with 49+ frames, you are taking a risk of being evade+launch'd. Even faster moves are not safe from punishment; You could still be jab- or elbow-punishable when evaded.

I have worked out exactly how many frames a move may have in order to be used without fear of reprisal based on advantage of 1-9 frames:

Code:

Adv     11f Jab (<=)    14f Elbow (<=)     17f Launch (<=)
+1          34              37                 40
+2          35              38                 41
+3          36              39                 42
+4          37              40                 43
+5          38              41                 44
+6          39              42                 45
+7          40              43                 46
+8          41              44                 47
+9          42              45                 48

How to read chart:
When at advantage X,
If you don't want to be Y-punishable if evaded,
Use a move with totals frames <= Z.

Normal Evade is 23f. (Side-turned evade takes 3 frames longer.)
Fastest jab is 11f. 34f total.
Elbow is 14f. 37f total.
Launch is 17f. 40f total.

The next step is to determine which of your character's moves are both frame-tight and nonpunishable at a given advantage. As you would likely expect, the list is not large. Generally, each character has about a dozen moves in their list (jab, elbow, 2P are a given for everyone.)

Here is Jeffry's list (forgive the plain-text formatting):

Code:

Adv      Not Jab-punishable            Not Elbow-punishable        Not Launch-punishable
======================================================================================
+1    2P
======================================================================================
+2                                    6P
======================================================================================
+3    6P                            P+K                            2P+K
======================================================================================
+4    P+K                            2P+K                        2_3P, 66P
======================================================================================
+5                                    2_3P                        TS P, 4K, 3P
======================================================================================
+6                                    66P                            4P+K, 2K
======================================================================================
+7    2P+K                            TS P                        3K, 3P+K, BT 2P
======================================================================================
+8    2_3P                            4K, 3P
======================================================================================
+9      66P                            4P+K, 2K                    TS K
======================================================================================

 

I should note that in this context "frame-tight" means able to CH an opponent's 2P. Thus, there are no highs in Jeffry's list.

 

I love this list and concept. I kinda want to make a list for eileen just for quick reference.

 

no. you add 3 frames to stuff when it's from sideturn. So you can do a move that's 3 more total frames to make this a sideturn chart.

 

Those are only unguardable. They can still be reversed and sabaki'd. In the case of 2P, any move that's airborne within those 3 frames would crush. But, no, specifically this chart only takes into account true guaranteed punishes.