Damage Scaling FAQ (beta)

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by Nutlog, Apr 4, 2002.

  1. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Tell me if I've missed something, or I'm unclear in my explanations, please. I figured I'd get this out there for folks to use. I found some of my TFT notes but not all, so that will be completed later...



    Damage Scaling FAQ
    --------------------

    The purpose of this FAQ is to explain how damage can scale in a combo under the VF4 engine. This can help those who are creative enough, build their own combos and judge practicality vs. difficulty in trying something new.

    When does damage scaling occur?
    --------------------------------
    Damage scaling occurs when you're opponent has been knocked off their feet and is totally defenseless. This could mean that the opponent is in the air or they could be laying on the ground and are completely unable to avoid getting hit by normal struggling to rise faster.


    When does damage scaling not occur?
    ------------------------------------
    Damage scaling will not take place while the opponent is still on their feet. This means that hits that connect while an opponent is staggering are not subject to damage scaling while they are still actually staggering. Usually hitting your opponent while staggering will knock them down. Hitting them after they're knocked off their feet will induce damage scaling.


    What is the progression of damage scaling for a float combo?
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    When you float your opponent, the move that knocked them into the air is not cosidered a juggle hit, so it has no scaling to it. The following progression applies to every hit in whatever sequence you follow up with:

    (These numbers are approximations to make it easier to use. By using these numbers, if you're not EXACTLY on, you will not be off by more than 1, maybe 2, points at the most)

    1st juggle hit: 80% of normal damage
    2nd juggle hit: 80% of normal damage
    3rd juggle hit: 60% of normal damage
    4th juggle hit: 50% of normal damage
    5th juggle hit: 40% of normal damage
    6th juggle hit: 30% of normal damage
    7th juggle hit: 25% of normal damage

    8th juggle hit and on: Undetermined at this point. It's no higher than 25%, but could be a progressive drop to 20%

    All fractional numbers after the computation is done are dropped, not rounded.

    Juggle hits are defined in this context as a non-avoidable attack by means of regular struggling, so down attacks and ground hits can be lumped into this category.

    There is a 50% damage penalty for moves that can hit downed opponents that are not designated as the "down attack" for that character. So basically, using a move to hit someone on the ground other than your default d/f+P or d/f+K or u+P or special pounce (u+K+G for Jeffry, Aoi, u/b+K+G for Pai) will result in an additional 50% cut being applied to that move, along with it's scaling for a combo hit.

    An example here is Sarah's punt kick (d+K).
    Hitting normally with it does 20 points of damage.
    If you hit with it as your first or second juggle hit, it will do 16 damage.
    If you hit with it as your first or second juggle hit, but it connected with the opponent while they were on the ground, it will do 10 damage.


    So why use something other than a down attack for a ground hit?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    There are occasions for most of the characters where connecting with a ground hit will lift the opponent back into the air just enough to get a couple more hits in while the opponent is off the ground, removing the 50% damage penalty for those hits. Other times, the quick down attack (d/f+P or d/f+K) may not be able to reach the opponent before they can roll away or get up, and you may have another move that can reach them.


    When I use my down attack, it doesn't seem to scale in damage at all. Are you sure about this?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Yup. If your down attack (d/f+P, d/f+K or u+P) didn't scale then it wasn't truly guaranteed, according to the game engine. There are some moves that cause an opponent to drop to the ground and stay down, where no matter how hard they stuggle, they cannot get up during that period (it's usually only about 10-20 frames or so...enough to cover the striking move's recovery with some advantage). This period then moves to the "strugglable" rising, where all your joystick mangling techniques can actually reduce the additional down time. These are usually generated from moves that slam opponents to the floor, either from standing or as a juggle hit, or from certain throws. If you connect with a down attack during this non-strugglable period or while the opponent still hasn't gotten through his stuggle phase, the damage will be scaled. If it was not during this period, then the damage will not be scaled, as technically, the opponent could have gotten out of the way by the time the down attack connected.


    Are there any exceptions to these scaling rules?
    -------------------------------------------------
    Yes. Currently there are two verified exceptions to this rule, along with one bug, and one circumstance still being documented.

    Exception #1: The TFT.
    Kage's TFT has it's own damage scaling that differs significantly from the normal system. I'm still looking for the rest of my notes, but details that I do remember right now are:

    1st juggle hit: 80%
    2nd juggle hit: 80%
    3rd juggle hit: 80%
    4th juggle hit: 65%
    5th juggle hit: 45%
    6th juggle hit: 30%

    Unlike the normal scaling system, the TFT system does round damages appropriately. Exception #2 is also applicable to the TFT system.

    Exception #2: Hitting an airborne opponent below low punch's hit level.
    There's only a 2 frame window here. Basically, if you can connect with an opponent in the two frames preceding the point where they touch the ground (and are considered a grounded opponent), the damage scaling for that move is completely removed. Use of this can be particularly devastating with lots of practice and experimentation. Incredible amounts of damage can be delivered very quickly and very simply with this.

    Bug #1: Sarah's u/b+K kickflip.
    For some unknown reason, when used in a float, this move will not use its normal 38 point damage base, but rather its flamingo stance counterpart's 30 point base.

    Under research: Low floats enabled by walls limiting float distance without actually giving a "wall bounce".
     
  2. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Hey nice FAQ Nutlog. I was wondering if there is additional scaling for repeating moves in a float? If i remember correctly in VF3 repeating a move in a float would cause the scaling to automatically jump to the next level wouldn't it?
     
  3. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Nope, no additional penalties for repeating moves.
     
  4. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Great stuff!

    "So basically, using a move to hit someone on the ground other than your default d/f+P or d/f+K or u+P or special pounce (u+K+G for Jeffry, Aoi, u/b+K+G for Pai) will result in an additional 50% cut being applied to that move, along with it's scaling for a combo hit.
    Okay, but then in your example, the 50% isn't additional:
    "An example here is Sarah's punt kick (d+K).
    Hitting normally with it does 20 points of damage.
    If you hit with it as your first or second juggle hit, it will do 16 damage.
    If you hit with it as your first or second juggle hit, but it connected with the opponent while they were on the ground, it will do 10 damage.

    If it were cumulative, shouldn't the damage be 8?
     
  5. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Thanks for catching that...I'll fix it /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

    Edit: Ok, it's expired, so I can't fix it. The 50% is not additional, it's applied to the base damage. I missed the update for that part after I reread my notes. It's updated in the actual FAQ, though.
     
  6. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Wow, awesome work!!! Great read..this should be made sticky and put in the dojo somewhere...
     
  7. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    I don't know if we get to vote here, but if we do, I second what Shadowdean said about the Sticky.
     

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