Did I make a mistake? Brad's low game.

I have a question to all other Brad players, what do you do to make up for Brads lack of viable low attacks?

Do you keep your distance so you have space to move out of ducking?

Or do you spam crouching punch?

I love brad, but I'm seriously thinking of switching because of his lack of a solid lineup of low abilities

 

THERE IS A SPINNING LOW KICK THAT WORKS PRETTY WELL, all those darn brads will double or tripple it up and its pretty effective, i don't like it but thats what it is.

 

My first reaction to this is just to tell you to use Lau or Pai.

But really, you should be using 1k, SB k+g and PT 2p. Those are IMO his best low attacks, especially the latter, which tends to beat out most stuff when your opp. just attacks as soon as you enter PT (goes to crouching).

Low sweep is only good when you think you can get MC, and by a wall since it causes stun on normal hit off the wall. Just throwing it out there will get you hammered.

 

Reasons I fear Not ducking:

Brad's double slip into that high guard breaking punch stagger!

my 2cents

 

I say play Jeffry.

*whistles

 

I agree that Brad's lows aren't that great, but he gets the job done without them. Brad has really strong mids and his throw game is pretty decent, so mix them up.

I think that his best low is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, as it's untelegraphed and full spinning. In my experience, whenever I end a combo with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, I have the perfect setup for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. Even if they guard it, Brad is far enough out of range to avoid getting caught by throws and elbows. This move is also dangerous at the end of a round because it can beat out ETEG and standing guard. If you're ring conscious, the opponent will also get knocked into a wall when this move connects. The downside to this move is that it's -4 on hit.

His PT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif knocks down on normal hit and has good range. Personally though, I think that most of the time nitaku between PT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and a throw out of PT are his best options, lessening the usefulness of this move. You can try it when your opponent is out of range for his other PT options.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is something that I hardly ever use. It's not even close to being as good as Pai's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Maybe if the the first kick jailed on normal hit it would be worth using. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that it currently does.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is shit no matter how you look at it.

SB /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif isn't very good. You're at -6 on normal hit and if you get a counter hit, Brad goes into a stupid pose that keeps you from following up with anything. I think that this move will knock your opponent against the wall, so when you have your opponent's back to the wall you can make them guess between this move and SB /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, I guess. IMO though, it's not worth going into SB when your opponent's back is to the wall.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif ducks Brad low and allows you to make a combo on a counter hit. Since it's -6 on normal hit though, it's not quite the great reverse nitaku option that it may sound like. In a RN situation, you're better off using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. I don't think that it's worth using this move personally.

Does anyone think that I'm off in my analysis? Can anyone provide better insight to his low game?

Also, does anyone think that nitaku between LD /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and a throw out of LD is enough? It's great that he has LD /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif but I don't think that it's necessary. I think that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif after it hits is guaranteed, though.

 

it's -19 on block so people will generally do something better than an elbow that will hit you.

 

2k+g isn't a true low which kills of a lot of it's functions (i.e you will get CH by high attacks and clash). He really needs a strong RN and / or solid true low (other then 2p). Note that in many situations where you would for instance want to fuzzy with correct timing you can fuzzy attack with 33p which is strong imo (going under the highthrow and launching). Since so many of Brads moves leave him at -6 (6p+k, 6_K etc) I've started to use that as his RN of choice.

 

Quick question, why not do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (16f) or even /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (16f) for RN instead of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (22f)?

On topic: most of the characters in VF have a substandard low game. Just look at the frame data and see that Brad's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is actually a decent low attack.
1) It's half-circular
2) It goes under high attacks and throws
3) Combo on CH for decent damage and opponents falls head first towards Brad, a great setup for him to keep the pressure on and add more damage. It's only -14 on block, just like one of the best lows in the game, Jeffry's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and while Jeff's low leaves him at -4 on normal hit while Brad is at -6 don't forget that Brad is already ducking so an opponent can't immediately throw Brad and it's the perfect setup to apply fuzzy guard. It is slow at (23f) but the reward-to-risk-ratio is fair at worst, not too shabby.

I know how much people here hate move comparisons /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif but if you look at other character's low attacks you will see that it's slim pickings except for Lion who has a pretty good low game imo.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+ /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is not super slow at (19f) does good damage even on normal hit (only -4)and it is a good way of dealing with DMP+K spammers but it's true this move is best when it counterhits for a knockdown. It's great against opponents that get up attacking or sidestepping after a tech-roll but if you trust your yomi there are better options.

All in all, Brad's low game is prob one of the worst, if not the worst, but it's not impossible to work with.

 

tony, those are moves that you use at an advantage . I don't recall /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif having any evasive properties. Are you talking about ducking under highs then using this move? If you enter it as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif quickly enough you'll forego the crouch animation, which wouldn't accomplish this. To quickly crouch first and then use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif would be attacking from fuzzy guard. When people talk about moves to use as RN, I'm pretty sure that they're talking about moves with evasive properties built into the animation, such as Wolf's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, and not attacking from fuzzy guarding. As far as Brad's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif goes, it appears to be able to duck highs, but I'm not sure when the evasive frames begin. I've never tried using this as a reverse nitaku move, because it's not a move that I'd like to use up close. If I'm hit while this move is being executed, I'm left with my back turned to the opponent. Not good. Brad's best RN tools are /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. Also, it doesn't matter how fast the move is as long as the move has evasive properties.

As far as what you've said about /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, you're right to say that this move isn't altogether terrible. I still think that using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a safer option in RN, though.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When people talk about moves to use as RN, I'm pretty sure that they're talking about moves with evasive properties built into the animation</div></div>I've always understood RN to be about moves that don't clash.

 

Now in VF5, during reverse nitaku you are encourage to use moves that are generally riskier. I think that's why the clash system was introduced. 2P will generally clash in those situations.

RN with 2P was very common in VF4: Evo.

 

I've always understood RN to be about moves that don't clash. </div></div>

RN = Reverse Nitaku. These are moves that you use while at a disadvantage. I've never heard anything about it having to do with moves that don't clash.

 

RN = Reverse Nitaku. These are moves that you use while at a disadvantage. I've never heard anything about it having to do with moves that don't clash.</div></div> I'm not saying you are incorrect but if a move doesn; t clash you can use it to attack out of a big disadvantage (i.e. RN) when normally that would produce a clash if the opp attempts a throw. This is also how the term RN is used in the wiki.

 

Haha, my bad, for some reason I thought the talk was about rising from a techroll >_<
But no, you're right, 2P and 33P are better RN tools.

 

1p is pretty much shit in my book as far as it goes with low attacks. How do you see yourself hitting with a 23f low from disadvantage on counterhit? The opponent using his nitaku advantage to start spamming a highpunchstring? Not going to happen. 9 times out of 10 you'll get it on normalhit and be -6. Even if you CH the combo done from it isn't very high damage and you should've probably done something else instead - it's a fancy move without much practical use. People tend to forget that it's 55 (!) active frames meaning the recovery of it is horrible if you happen to whiff. I don't believe the hype of this attack at all and tbh it's use in highlevel matches seen imo is slim to none. Btw a lowattack that hasn't been mentioned is 1kk which is ok due to knockdown (I think) on mC. You can use this against Lei / Aoi stances etc as it's decently fast @16f... Brad could use a double limbed attack (hell they even gave Kage one). Still praying for the day when 46k can be used as RN. Turn Sobat is bad as RN for natural reasons, number one being how much it hurts getting hit in the back (it's a turnaround attack) on counterhit if the opponent uses a midkick or something. Can't really pressure with a throw after either.

 

What Myke and Libertine said. Reverse Nitaku existed long before clash or anticlash moves. Obviously using a non-clash move as RN-tool is good, but depending on disadvantage you can ALSO use normal moves that dont clash as long as disadvantage isnt too big.

Example from my own character, I can use Akiras standing palm as RN attack from small disadvantage, such as after blocked DE. Obviously 60+ damage from StPm combo is juicier than low punch and slight advantage. StPm has no anti-clash properties as such, but it can still be used as RN if you know when. Same applies to all other characters attack lists. People think too much that "I cannot use ANYTHING but anticlash moves in disadvantage WAH!". Learn the clash formula I say.

The different types of situations are varied and not no-brainer *use non-clash move* as people sometimes seem to think. RN as a term simply refers to attacking out of disadvantage. Well, at least we can discuss about its meaning.

ps. like Myke said, low punch never clashes against a highthrow, but it DOES clash against a low throw.

 

Hmmmm...I may have confused it with the low-throw animation. Or might be a case of online screwing with me. Thanks for the correction.