Evo Shun - Bread 'N' Butter with Cheese [Combos, Tricks,etc.]

Alrighty, I see a bunch of stuff here and there about our resident drunkard Shun Di. Let's make this thread the be all-end all for Evo Shun reference. If you have a guaranteed combo then list it here. Be sure to make references to anything that lowers it's reliability such as character weight, stance, counter needed, etc. and help the young Shunites out. If you have found a good trick to make your opponent susceptible to certain attacks or have found little things that most players don't know then share them here. Any other information such as moves that have guaranteed throw properties versus you or opponent, practical drinking tips, ways to effectively use sometimes hard to hit moves such as +, or +, and just great examples of mid-high level quirks are very much appreciated.

Shun is a very dear to me character. He has always been a joy to play, but I recognize that newer players will struggle with him once they get against decent competition. A certain reliance on drinking, large movelists, and need for set-ups over offense rule the endgame for Shun. I want this thread to be the main point of interest until a worthy faq comes to light. I know with competent Shun players like Shadowdean, Shundi_05, GaijinPunch, woodman, and DrunkenCat we can get a good little thread going here. This should help the old man get a bit more recognition. Post away.

 

Wait for my faq, which is in the works /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

All I can add is combos from version C but shun's combos seem to work the same in evo:

QCF+P followups
---------------
>>F+P -> QCF+P --> df+P [?? pts]
[hold DF for the final uppercut]
>> F+P -> K,K [74 pts]
[LW, closed stance, can also end in F+P->P->f,f+K->df+P (ground attack)]
>> F+P -> f,f+K -> df+P (ground attack) [70 pts] NOT in evo, TR-able
[MW, open stance]
>> K,K [70 pts]
[HW, closed stance]
>> F+P -> P,P,P [64 pts]
[HW, open stance]

u+K followups
-------------
>> u+P (pounce) [55 pts]
[ALL]
>>whiff jab --> f+P,K [?? pts]
[ALL? I have trouble doing this one]

FC, DF+P followups
------------------
>> d+P -> db+P,K [70-73] *
[ALL, more damage vs HW]

b,df+P followups
----------------
>> P,P,P [60 pts]
[MW, closed stance for heavier midweights. For variety on lightweights, you can also get
P -> b,df+P or P -> QCF+P in open stance]
>> db+K,K [56 pts]
[MW]
>> b,df+P [57 pts] *
[HW, open stance vs heavier mids and up. More damaging vs heavies, mids get 52 pts]
>> df+P [52 pts]
[HW, closed stance, hold DF before pressing punch to avoid trying a ground attack]

Also after df+P+G I see lots of shun players use QCF+P --> b,f+P,P,P --> df+P [hold DF for the final P]

 

Evo Shun is going to be tricky for combos - generally his new moves allow for more flowcharts than true combos.

Anyway there is going to be a slight flood of Shun tactics coming soon in the form of some faqs. I might still post some stuff here but will wait until it's all out there so we aren't repeating ourselves. /versus/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

Drunkencat, if you have any shun stuff that's worth posting, you should post it. The release of VF4, VF4b, VFc, and PS2 VF4 did not cause a "flood of tactics" for shun di, and to date there still isn't a single official shun guide or minifaq, much less an evo guide. There's also no documentation for vanessa I notice, and most of the others have either quicky faqs or version A and B information.

So my point is don't worry about duplicating effort that probably isn't there /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Alright alright I give in. I don't know how much of this is worth posting but I'll give it a shot if people are desperate for info /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif. I guess could start with some common tactics for Shun's new and modified moves.

- Ok his standard has been updated so that it can switch to BT after execution, and from looking at the new animation the looks to be half-circular but I'm not sure if it is(I don't have PS2 Evo - maybe someone could test this if they have the time?).
Shun's game from BT is fairly good, his new + is a very nice move as a follow-up, so is his (from BT)++,,, as if you have 10 DP, (drink points) the last will auto-throw on successful hit. Just watch out - the ++,, is alot faster now, but as a sacrifice it now doesn't have a small mid attack at the start - all three attacks are high now.

+, and +, - Ok his useless + attack can now be followed up with or . There are actually very few videos of this, so I'll just quickly describe it as the animation is very different and there is some new looking stuff as well.
Basically after the Shun does some twirling (yes twirling) backwards a bit which can be followed up with a which is mid (looks a bit like the ,+) or with a which is low. The is a bit harder to describe but it goes to down position and staggers on hit if I'm not mistaken. Both follow-ups have about the same range, but the seems to come out a bit quicker.
There aren't a large range of tactics you can use with this but it if you don't use a follow-up it's great for getting some distance from your opponent.

++ - Ok this move is just awesome - no Evo Shun player should go without it. It requires 10 DP but is Shun's best sabaki. The sabaki executes in the very first frames of the move, so it's just awesome on canned combos. On hit it crumbles, and on successful sabaki it auto-throws. Use this move well and people will be scared to attack you.

,+ - Well I haven't seen anyone even talk about this move yet - there are certainly very few videos of it. This is the type of move that you use on aggressive Akira players when you want the upper hand. The move is a bit like Aoi's ,+, as the range is almost non-existant, but will work on advancing opponents. Shun leans back so he is almost lying down and then kicks. If the kick hits it will stagger. It won't stagger much but it will give you enough time for a quick guessing game.

Ok that's all for now - will add the rest in the next post. /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

+, on MC guarantees a +,+, versus lightweights and +, against the rest.

+, will cause stagger on mC, but lacks any follow-up ability. It's range is about 1/2 of +, and it leaves you face down/head away. Since you have a bit of time after seeing whether + hits the way you want it to. You can use this as an effective low attack versus someone rushing in.

,+ is an excellent tool versus bulldogging opponents. I have a couple friends who love Pai and Jacky and this stuffs a lot of their advances. I traditionally do it as + just for the faster reaction of the move. I also have found it an ok tool to use when rising. Low kick rise or nuetral rise and then drop back into this kick to get rushers who pop in with a high roundhouse or such.

++ and I'll have to play with a bit more to get more information on their properties.

 

Alright here's "the rest":
Stuff In Drunken Stance:
+,, or+,, - DS had a flaw in Ver C. in that it was very short ranged. Shun's new Evo DS moves try to remedy that flaw. This move's first attack is much like Shun's normal +, and is then basically followed up by his new +, or +,, all in one big canned combo. Nothing new here - I assume any follow up combos are the same.

+++, or +++, - Now this move I really like. Shun jumps and rolls foward and follows up with either a mid (which looks abit like his ,+) or a low (which is from a transition lying down position and is a quick double kick to the legs). This is another canned combo which ends in a mid/low guessing game. If not mistaken crumbles on hit and has +,+, follow up. will knock opponent to ground but is tech-rollable. You can also just do the +++ roll without a follow up to surprise your opponent.

,,++ - Shun's new throw. Will sacrifice 3DP on successful throw so don't use too often. According to Green Book it's only 5 points more damage than a normal + so there isn't much incentive to use it unless your opponent is a throw escape freak.

(BT) + - Excellent addition to Shun's BT arsonal. Good damage and on MC another + is guaranteed. Hits mid. Also good for hopping over an opponent who is on the ground. Excellent followup to ,,.

(BT) ++,, - As said before all attacks are high now but it makes it a faster and in the end better move. A good combo is (BT) +,+ (BT)++,,. Do it well and your opponent will TR and get hit by the last just as they get up - giving you the auto throw.

 

good stuff drunken cat. Thanks for the info.

A couple of things I wanted to add that some people might have left off. The chouwan is still a very effective tool in baiting and "poking" It's even easier to use especially for pad players like me because I won't mess up and lay down by mistake.

Not sure maybe someone can answer this for me.. but when I sit down now, can I still go into the laying down position? (example in vf4 version c, I would d+p+k and then tap d, d and he would lay down)


BT (k+g) is a great addition as you guys mentioned. The one that I do now is use that mid attack and then force opponents to stand there and then I would do the back turned throw. Works very well after you get both of them out on your opponent because then you can attack them low, mid, throw or high in other times. That's all I can contribute for my shun is random and nothing special. lol.

 

Some cool little tidbits I came up with....

(MC) , , +, +
MW/HW can TR
Ok this is Shun's chouwan, turn away punch, and two backwards double kicks. The 2nd set of kicks can be TR'd, but if the first set puts them on the wall, then 2nd set is a combo. Not much damage, but it's cool looking.

(MC) , , , +
The BT double kicks can be TR'd.

(MC), DS or , +,
Input juggle hits asap. Works on all weights!

(MC), DS , ++, ,
All weights, but can be TR'd
With 8 DPS, you can switch for

(MC), DS , ++,
All weights, but can be TR'd

(MC) , , on LW/MW
I prefer this combo over the typical because it leaves you in better recovery to take advantage of their TR. Its almost the same damage anyways. I think Creed or Myke posted face down TR setups with back staggers... this combo is the way to do that... against a well timed TR will backstagger. Now, how to punish a quick recovery (the bounce up)?

(BT) + is very much reversable, so don't abuse it. I learned this out the hard way against Vanessa... /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

(10DP) + is truely and awesome move... because it's an attack, it evades throws, and is very good if your opponent abuses multiple punch strings (Lau, Pai, Vanessa, etc). Just guard and sabaki at the right time.

I abuse the //+++ movements combined with or to open space and give myself a bit of time. The sways are actually very good in avoiding attacks, and if they rush in to try and stop them, just punish with the or + attacks. Very good for avoiding rising kicks/sweeps and getting an extra drink in.

 

+,+,+ - This is an absolute treasure. I've used this trick for a bit now and leaves very good options. If done against a wall it works against HW's as well. Careful on your timing or the last + or you'll do a + ground attack which seems to put you at disadvantage.

 

Does anyone have any new wall combos? All I have are my Ver C combos that are scrub-friendly...

+ (wall stagger), ,
+ (wall stagger), , (16DPs)

 

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure maybe someone can answer this for me.. but when I sit down now, can I still go into the laying down position? (example in vf4 version c, I would d+p+k and then tap d, d and he would lay down)

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure can. Didn't realise this until I saw it in a movie(kaku2_y02). The transition between the stances seems very quick - it doesn't even seem to wait until he is fully in Lying Down stance before you can execute moves from it.

 

thanks for the info drunken cat. I have yet to fully play shun evo style. I will soon. But I was wondering.. since shun has a new back turned mid attack. If you do the p+g throw, and someone throw escapes it, it puts shun backturned on the opponent. Would you be able to have enough time to do the mid level attack after they do the throw escape? Just wondering because that would kick some serious ass. Usually, I tap forward and roll away if I know someone will try and attack me after the throw escape. For the d+k move is too slow.

 

I praise your creativity /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif. The tactic you mentioned is actually very good. I've seen it used once in a vid. and it's probably the best attack you can do after the throw escape. I can't think of a move that would interrupt the it. After the throw escape your out of range of a quick and there aren't that many moves that would close the gap and attack quick enough I would think. Maybe Akira's dashing elbow but it's still quite a good tactic. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

I got all kinds of shun creativity. it's strange, he's more creative for me to figure out then other characters. thanks druken cat for the compliment. hmm... there still are a few moves that will hit my shun if I try and roll away. not sure which ones but there are, if i remember correctly. so I don't roll away all the time. After the first time rolling away, it would start a guessing game. come to think of it, i believe jacky's beat knuckle will catch up to his roll attempt. Also if you are fighting shun versus shun and he has enough drinks, he can f, f p+k you from the back. lol.



I wonder if they made the uf+p+g+k move with a faster recovery. Machi style players would usually fall for at least one of those attempts where they would stand there far away from a sweep, and i would dash in with that move and then throw. perhaps it's faster now where you can chouwan/throw guessing game? not sure, haven't tried it out yet, have you?


Also, i noticed that there are some moves that you can 'absorb" (purposely let them hit you and if you time it correctly) you can absorb the hit, and then nail them with a chouwan. it works many times, not for every little move. i am guessing the easiest at times is absorbing a far away low punch and then throwing out the chouwan. I don't study frames so I wouldn't really know any other types of attacks, but it seemed to work for me many times on my "trail and error" attempts. lol.

 

I hate to see this thread die so quickly, so I'll post a few things (which most people probably already know)...

, and , I think shouldn't be done unless you hit with the and get the stagger. Otherwise, it's very easy to dodge both second attacks. Once in a while you can try (blocked)-throw to catch dodgers.

+ and are both good to stuff . Also will beat many low attacks, although + sometimes flies over without hitting, like during a low rising attack. If Shun's , hits as an MC, these moves can only be beaten by fast (11 frame) , and maybe Akira's double palm. + is also good because it is mid and half-circular, and you can hold to go to drunken stance.

Chouwan () recovers at -2, so after a blocked chouwan can only be beaten by moves that are faster than elbows. Chouwan (blocked), (hit or blocked), throw works well.

I'm not sure that chouwan/throw is a good guessing game since both can be ducked without any damage -- chouwan is special mid. Maybe sidekick/throw if you want a safe mid move, or mule kick/throw if you want bigger damage.

[Drunken] ++, is safe if blocked, and will duck under high moves and maybe some mids like elbows. It causes a float on hit, similar to .
You can mix it up with the and ++,throw if they start blocking high when they see you rolling.

If you do ,, hold and 8-way walk. If the opponent tries a linear move which whiffs, you can then + for backturned catch throw.

is full circular so will hit dodgers, and on MC with I think 16 drinks (or a lot), will combo, for big damage.

I'm sure everybody knows how good + is against rising attacks. Also, don't forget you can hold for drunken stance, and do ++, to catch people rushing in.

 

Agreed, can't let the thread die yet /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I'm thinking now that ,+ doesn't knock down since evo it can be used in some new flowcharts, esp. since Shun's BT game is a bit better now than it used to be. Maybe it can be used after ,+? I'm not sure but I think the range is about right.

Anyway ring out strategies:
++,, - Probably one of Shun's best moves to force a ring out. It's low, fast and each attack is half-circular, but even if the first attack is evaded the second will probably still hit. If it hits it moves your opponent back quite far, but there seems to be a condition that the last sweep doesn't always hit. It might be stance dependant but I think more likely that the last sweep will hit if you have an extra DP or two.

+ - Half circular and mid, so no ducking it and 50/50 evading it. Quite useful.

+, - Nothing guaranteed but I can see it as a good pressuring move to push someone out of the ring. +,, (from DS) would probably have the same effect.

+ - If your back is facing the ring, this throw is great. It doesn't matter if your opponent escapes the throw or eats it, as either way it will switch positions with them so they will be at the edge of the ring. If the throw is escaped it's a 'nitaku' situation, so you will be at a disadvantage, but nothing will be guaranteed.

++ - An obvious choice if you have your back to the ring, as it puts you behind your opponent. Just watch out though because the situation isn't so good if the throw is escaped.

The only thing to watch out for throws while you are near the edge of the ring is that the ++ is the most dangerous thing you can do. If it hits you will probably still be near the edge of the ring and if it doesn't the throw escape animation will mean that you will get ringed out.

 

Drukencat... good stuff. If your opponent has his back towards ring out he/she will try and dodge to get out of the way. Your stuff that you mentioned is good. Don't forget his b+p move. That move turns your opponent around and you can mid kick back stagger him and then chouwan him out of the ring.

If your back is towards the ring out.. and you know your opponent will escape your throws, the safest throw to do is the b, df+p+g throw. When it's escaped, you do go under his legs, but you do not get to kick him for the 10 pts of damage. He/she will block your kick. Puts you away from ring out and far enough away from a throw attempt from your opponent.

 

wow can't believe no one's mentioned this

followup to + / ++ :
+,,,++

this requires 8 drinks and goes to handstand.. i think this lands up to lau or akira.. without 8 drinks i think u can just leave out the third hit and do a + or maybe even a + on lightweights