frame data on successful sabaki?? help please..

hey guys, i was just trying to figure out some flowcharts and this question popped into my head. something i haven't been able to figure out.
when you successfully sabaki an attack (i.e hear the scratching sound) which particular frame data applies to the sabaki-er?? the counter hit frame data or the normal hit frame data?? i know this hardly applies to any sabaki's because most of them just have a followup hit (which will obviously be normal hit) or crumple the opponent allowing you to juggle them but the sabaki i was referring to in particular was vanessa's +.....(i'm sure they might be others but i can't be bothered to recall them ATM)
basically when i successfully sabaki with it will i be at +4 (the adv. i have on counter hit) or at +2 (the advantage on normal hit)?? its probably normal hit f.data but i'm just curious and want to be sure because technically you are going right through the opponents attack when you sabaki them so your attack is a counter hit in a way.

thx for any assistance anyone can provide /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

edit: oh while i'm on the subject of vanessa, could someone also tell me whether the second hit of her DS +, is special high or just regular high?? the movelist on VFDC says its special high but the one at 1/60th's site says its normal high. could someone clarify since i don't have the game at home. thanks a bunch! /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

 

it's a normal hit, definitely not a MC. An easy way to check is to do goh's b,f+K. It unfortunately will not crumple on successful sabaki, only on MC. So you merely get +2 frame advantage instead of the nice crumple combo.

 

wicked thanks a lot for the help /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

now about that second question regarding vanessa's +, /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

I think that since the frame data on 1/60th has been updated for version B, and since myke's vanessa movelist hasn't, I'd go with 1/60ths. I guess it was slightly weakened.

Pay me money and I'll turn on the PS2 to say for sure.

 

Note that there are sabakis that don't act that way, like Aoi's qcf[p]+[k], which crumples ONLY on a successful sabaki, and not on a counter or regular hit... are there any others that change hit property on sabaki? There's the weird Goh elbow sabaki that can be a guaranteed throw or not based on foot position, but I think that's a function of range and not frame rates...