FT Shun

Well, I have now had about 250 matches in with my Shun and I do have some news for you.

First, chouwan is fucking weak. But not like I thought it would be.

Granted -6 means you cannot do chouwan- anymore, but comparatively speaking, characters like Sarah have much worse (guaranteed) counterattacks on their main floaters, so I can tolerate this change.
But, chouwan damage is 20, and it floats much lower unless you can get red counter. From your 3 or 43 throw, chouwan floats even lower, so much so that you can only get on mids and a measly chouwan against heavyweights. Whether other things can get in there is yet to be seen, and as usual, the more you drink the faster he gets so after 16 or so you can go for chouwan .

His is NICE. Even on hit it is at disadvantage (-3 on counter, -4 on normal), but it has some huge damage, and if you can get the to counter then you get a free after 8 drinks. Additionally, you can put it in after chouwan, standing punch for good damage against all characters (against heavies, only on red counter). It can also be put in after ,, though the timing is a bit difficult, for some serious damage.

, is also very good. The timing is hard at first, you just have to press the second P right as the first one connects (on hit or guard). Once you get used to it, it is one of his strongest moves. You can of course stop after the drink (effective as a tool to evade highs and get a drink), or after the first punch, which staggers crouchers.

His change move (which is NOT full circular, as was mis-translated in another thread) is a neat addition. If you have six drinks you can go for the second P, and it has no guaranteed counterattack on block. The movement is really weird, and if you stop after the first one you can get throws in on lots of people (but only for now, I'm sure).

Overall, it seems like Shun has gotten some new stuff he really needed, while taking hits on stuff that all characters have to deal with.

I'll be posting more in a few days.

 

That was me. I know nothing about Shun, so I thought I'd check with you. His old b+P was full circular right? Does his new b+P have some special property? I think the translation should be "Choose between a full circular and something something." I can read two of the characters, yoko side and geki attack, but I can't make out the middle one for the life of me. Does the new b+P step to the side slightly? If so would sidestepping attack be a decent translation? Let me know and I'll fix it. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

So they did change all the silly Chouwan combo business, just like the animated GIF on the FT website suggested.

Well, I see Shun can now have a sennin staff. He'd be 10 times as cool if he gets a turtle shell.
I don't have anything constructive to add..
Thanks for this good information.

 

You were probably talking about his old move, as in the sentence after you did mention that the first hit of the change was half-circular.

Old - Full circular but high, forces the opponent to his/her back, and combo-able on MC after 4? (or is 6?) drinks in Evo.

New - Half-circular and still high, but the second is middle, which makes this a move that you can use to force nitaku. Can also be used in combos.

Personally, looking at the above, I'd prefer the old one...

 

Cool post. Shame about the chouwan but he had it coming I guess.

Shun does seem better in FT. His drink potential looks weaker in some areas but stronger in others so it's balanced out in my opinion. ++ looks like a great way to get drinks at the end of the round now that it's +4DP and you can add a +++ at the end if you're quick. +++ in general is great - one of his best additions in FT. Shun's looking good.

One thing I wanted to ask was have you seen any good tactics for using ++? It's seems like quite a strange move; two hits (a kick then a punch), both high, both small damage and seems to be a poking style move. The interesting thing I did notice about it in one of the FT movies was that the second punch caused a flop on counter (think it was YC) but I don't know how it could be used in general play. In the video the shun player whiffed the kick and the other player tried to interrupt shun and got hit by the punch but my feeling is that once the players get used to the new moves they won't fall for that so I'm wondering how you can take advantage of the punch. I guess ideally you would have delay on the second attack but that isn't possible with one input. My guess is that if the first hit counters (maybe RC or SRC) then the second hit would flop for a small combo but I was wondering if you had found any use for it.

 

Just to add my two cents and repeat some of what I've said in the general FT thread here so people looking for Shun info can find it:

Damn I didn't realize chowan was -6 now. Totally fair, but even so /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

Makatsuku: Do you think + -> + -> + is stance specific or do you think it's the timing that will cause it to miss sometimes?

As new followups for ++ below 8 drinks I've seen some shuns do +++ -> for a drink, but the damage doesn't seem worth it. I normally use ++ -> + instead of ++ -> + because it leaves you more options to press the offensive, punish the tech roll, etc. I'm not sure which is more damaging though. And every once and a while you can try ++ -> ++ for 4 drinks. It's definitely punishable so be careful, but not everyone will punish it all the time. (Like last time I went to an arcade I used that maybe twice in a long series of matches against a 10th dan lion and got away with it).

As for Shun's change moves, I prefer the old full-circular + compared to the new +. Well, to be honest I haven't tried the new one yet, but I think his old + is almost too good to give up.

For his second change move I prefer his old one as well. Like the new + elbow is cool and all, but it seems like his old + with all it's follow-ups is a more versatile attack.

As I mentioned in the general thread, here are some new ways to get more than 3 drinks after a round ends:

(kills) -> ++ -> +++ - +5
+ (kills) -> ++ -> +++ - +5
+ (last hit kills) -> ++ -> +++ - +6

The last one works as +++ adds the dp at the beginning of animation instead of towards the end, but it seems it has longer recovery than ++ if you don't do the canned followups (which, of course, you wouldn't do if you are trying to drink at the end of a round)

Hope that helps, I'm off to go get lunch, see ya guys

 

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For his second change move I prefer his old one as well. Like the new + elbow is cool and all, but it seems like his old + with all it's follow-ups is a more versatile attack.

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Namflow, I remember a SHU vs. Wolf clip where SHU punished a whiffed short shoulder with the old . All three hits connected, and looked guaranteed! Does the whole thing work on mC? If so, wow!

 

When your opponent is -13 is all guaranteed now.

 

Daaaayum!

 

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Namflow said:

Makatsuku: Do you think + -> + -> + is stance specific or do you think it's the timing that will cause it to miss sometimes?



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On lightweights it works all the time. On mids you sometimes need the small red counter. On heavies you need the big red. Sometimes it is very tricky to get the K in though...

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Namflow said:

(Like last time I went toAs new followups for ++ below 8 drinks I've seen some shuns do +++ -> for a drink, but the damage doesn't seem worth it.



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If you are under 8 dp and you cannot get your then it is not too bad of a choice. It only works in open stance, so you have to be on the lookout for that. If you change up between getting the drink and one P, and adding the second P, you can freeze the opponent and then just run in and throw.

As far as goes, I have it selected and have had a hard time using it well. It can be a good follow-up to chouwan against Shun, because the second P takes 2 drinks.

The versatility of , as well as its variants (esp on counter attack, see above) make it pretty hard to give up.

I have noticed a few other changes.

When you do or against Aoi, and go for instead of chouwan (because she can grab it), the K no longer causes stagger but just a really, really, really delayed recovery. You can run in and just attack her.

Jacky's new throw (the DoA ripoff one) takes 1 dp.

Using the new , against Vanessa's Defensive Stance is BAD. She can do handhold, or +/, or and fuck your brains out.

And oh yeah, out of chokarou is now FULL circular. YUMMY!

 

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And oh yeah, out of chokarou is now FULL circular. YUMMY!

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Good stuff. Also wanted to add that I was watching a Beat Tribe match between SHU and Itoshun and the first attack of ++ beat Itoshun's + so it's a special high attack. Quite a safe way to stuff low punches.

 

Sounds like some fun changes! Thanks a lot for the info! A couple questions:

-If chowan floats differently on all kinds of hits, what kind of damage can you get from each hit? It's too bad that it was toned down, but no argument that it needed it. Can you do evo combos on RC / SRC?

-After seeing Zangief use , how is it changed in FT? If two P's are guranteed at -13, that must be hell in a shun vs shun match. But he finally has an elbow that is 15 frames now, right? Have you tried using the elbow much, or is it not worth it?

Thanks for the info!

 

great shun info here!

its great to hear about the changes to +,,. though i really like the sound of that new move, the + elbow, it seems that it could do a lot more for shuns offense then +,,. i'm guessing it will come down to how you want to play your shun in the end. offensively the + looks like its the better tool, though it did seem to have rather limited range (however its animation makes it seem like it could evade high's. can someone confirm this? m_shun?). defensively the +,, should probably win hands down.

also have there been any uses found for his ,++? it seems like a pretty cool move and my first guess was that it could have some use in combos but i've yet to see any shun players use it in the the vids. if it is special high like drunkencat posted i could think of many applications for the move in flowcharts so i'm kind of surprised thats its not being used more.

additionally i noticed chouwan's execution is now 16 frames (rather then 15) /versus/images/graemlins/mad.gif, possibly to make it harder to whiff punish with it. don't think he really needed that change but can't help it now /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

finally just wanted to ask whether its possible to use the new change move +. variant in combos after the mule kick or CH +

 

Okay, semi-big update here.

Some stuff I have learned combo-wise:

in Open stance ONLY can be followed up with chouwan
in Closed stance ONLY can be followed up with chouwan (note: you need 6 drinks)
This works against all characters, but the second only hits lights, and only from 43

Situations where you can add

Chouwan-->
(wall) , (HUGE damage, esp. after mule kick)

Good news about chouwan's float:

Unlike as was previously believed, you can still get most of the old chouwan combos even with its lowered floating capabilities.

When in Closed stance you can get Chouwan , on Red counter and Chouwan on yellow counter, against ALL characters.

In Open stance, it is probably best to go for Chouwan ,, as the knockdown leaves them face-down and easier to attack.

Small notes about Mule kick:
When you have less than 8 drinks, and you go for /,,, ALL of the s land now, even on Akira, Jacky and Brad (before only the first and third did).
Also, you can NOT get Mule kick /,, against Aoi or Lion (you used to be able to) but you can against Akira and Jacky (you didnt used to be able to).

On the use of
I had tried using this myself for about 2 weeks, and didnt see many times to use it. Itazan has been using it for a month, and just recently he has found many ways to use it. Some of the mix ups include:
(on hit)

Throw
(yes, just doing it again--lots of people try to evade but the semi-circular part F***s them up)
and of course, if they try and throw you (as you ARE at disadvantage even on counter), the obligatory Chouwan.

Outside that i dont think there is really anything i can add that you cant tell from the videos that are out now. Peace.