Full Assist for a lonely VF player?

Hey everyone,

A few of you know me from posting here or talking on the shout box. And as some of you know, I've been playing VF5 on the PS3 for a while. I scrubbed around with VF1 and 2 back when I was a kid, but since I got the PS3 I've been willing to go deeper. I love the franchise, always loved it, so it was just fitting for me to get VF5 even though it had no Online and all other limitations you all know about. I simply hoped for either, a patch with Online or a new upgraded version to come out with Online eventually (yeah, R, I was waiting for you before you were even announced). Until then I could... practice with the AI. So I played some of the Quest Mode for a while. A little over 700 matches (400 of which were as Lion). But it was all on pad the entire time.

Of course, eventually I put the game aside in favor of other stuff I had around, but fast-forwarding a bit I found myself buying my first home stick. Not only to play other fighting games (namely Tekken and SF), but for VF too. In fact, I had been considering getting myself a VSHG since back when I purchased VF5, but gave up on the idea because... well, the cost wasn't worth it to play against the AI.

Anyways, this week I put the disc in my PS3 again and started to practice again. Now I'm a lot more serious about it as it not only helps me for an eventual PS3 version of R (I can hope, right?) but it also helps me get the hang of the stick. I haven't played in the arcades in a long time, and the last time I played on a ball-top stick I was just a little kid, so it'll be a long road.

This is exactly the reason behind this topic. Even though I could probably beat some worthless competition with my current skills, I want to go as far as I can taking in consideration all the limitations I have (PS3 version of the game, no local competition), and all the tools I have as well (SF4 TE stick, internet lol). For that, I'll need many advices, tips and such. It's kinda like starting over, but not quite.

I believe the first difficulty I need to overcome is learning to play with the stick AND playing better than I used to on the pad (or else I'll just regret having spent so much on the thing). It's not as much a "cost thing", it's more the fact that I know the game can be better played on a stick, VF was meant to be played on a stick we all know this. (sorry if anyone disagrees, but this isn't the topic to discuss opinions on stick vs pad ok?)
So far I've been using the basic VF layout for the buttons and it feels comfortable (index and middle finger on the upper left-most buttons and thumb on the down left button) but the button sensitiveness is something I have yet to get used to. I keep going trigger-happy and pressing 3~4 times when I meant to press twice. I don't even notice when I do this, it's just when I look at the command inputs on training mode that I see me doing it often. And then there's the moving around. Sometimes I tap /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif instead of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif, or vice-versa.

Another problem atm is pulling off certain commands during the battle, fluidly. What should I do to practice their execution? Should I just keep doing Quest Mode to push myself into the pressure of inputting the commands in the middle of the fight? Or should I stick to Command Training for a long time until I have every move down to a science? I did Time Attack Mode on Command Training 3 times and my best time is something around 8mins.

Is it "normal" to have trouble learning to play on a stick or am I an abomination?

I watched some tutorial videos on advanced defense techniques, such as Fuzzy Guard, ETE, ETEG etc. I could pull off Fuzzy Guard relatively fine on training mode, but not in the battle, simply because I don't know when to use it lol. Throw Escapes, even though I read Leonard's golden rules and everything, I still can't pull it off. To make it worse, I can't practice that on Training Mode because the PS3 version doesn't allow you to set different throw counters for the CPU. On the pad I just didn't bother with TEs, but now I believe I should, and if so, how? Same thing with DM, but DM seems a bit easier to practice. The real problem with DM is executing it during a fight because I'm always afraid of trying it at the risk of taking a beat.

So yeah... I think I'm at a point where I need to "learn how to learn" hah. Maybe how to get more out of the Training Mode since my problem is mainly execution and not much theory. I MIGHT (keyword: Might) borrow a PS2 in a few weeks with VF4EVO, but I won't have a stick to practice there, should I bother?

Also, since this will be basically like starting over. Should I keep using Lion? Or should I pick up a new character and go improving my skills along with him? Maybe playing Lion on pad for so long got me used to certain tactics that aren't very efficient anymore, I dunno?
I might as well, regardless of the character I pick, make a new character data, so I have a track of my wins and losses on the stick, would that be useful?

Anyways, sorry for so many scrub-tastic questions. And thanks for whatever advice you can give me =) Even a "relax, it takes time" will help.

 

Couple thoughts...

PS3 AI is not as good as 360 AI, neither is PS3 training mode.
It's possible you can play VF4:Evo on your PS3. If your PS3 is JP, you'll need a JP PS2 Evo disc. Your stick will work fine for that and the Evo training mode is great.

Transitioning from pad to stick takes time. I think it's worth it.

Good luck. It's hard to do this without a scene.

 

Plague's right, you can just throw VF4evo in the PS3 and play it no problem.

Otherwise, you've got a lot going on /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif best I can suggest is work on one thing at a time.

One quick bit of advice for DM-- I sometimes think of it as a reversal for linear attacks. But beyond that, you can just look at the movelist of the character you end up using and find out which attacks leave you at medium disadvantage when blocked. You should be able to generate successful evades in those situations. That should give you the confidence to use DM techniques more often.

 

VF4Evo won't work on my PS3 because it's a JP PS3, and it has no backwards comp ^^' back then, 60gb fully b/c comp PS3s were still for sale, but I figured I would save the pennies and get myself some PS3 games. I have my friend's PS2 at my disposal and can buy one myself if the need arises (I didn't have a PS2 when it was around because I was into MMOs at the time).

Anyways, I appreciate all the tips. I'm playing several different games on the stick to get the feel right. I saw myself playing through several levels of LittleBigPlanet the other day on the stick. Awesome isn't it? I can notice the improvement on my reflexes already, but there's still ways to go to reach the abilities I have on pad and then surpass it.

As for the DM, thanks a lot Yupa, I will try that later. You see, I always tried to DM out of nowhere, like, whenever I wasn't attacking, trying to predict my opponent's move. Using it when they guard my attacks was something that I didn't think about hah!

What should I consider medium disadvantage tho? -10?

 

It's been suggested that the best time to use DM is when you're at -7 to -11 disadvantage. Usually when an opponent blocks an attack that leaves them with that kind advantage, they'll try to counter you with PK or elbow, which the DM will evade easily.

Just trying to guess and evade at random times during a fight is not going to work.

Check the dojo forum.

 

Introduce, isolate, integrate.

Introduce a technique - figure out what it is & what it's for. You mentioned not knowing when to fuzzy guard, fuzzy guard is for defending against throw and elbow when you're at small disadvantage (-4 and -5), so at first think of it as "when my elbow gets blocked, hold guard & tap down".

Isolate the technique - practice the technique against a certain amount of resistance until you have it down. Set the cpu to throw or mid, do your elbow, fuzzy guard both follow ups. Do this at least until you can do it perfectly 10 times in a row on both 1p and 2p sides.

Integrate the technique - play actual matches and concentrate mostly on using the technique. Don't worry about winning or losing, just do your elbow when you think you should, and fuzzy guard if it gets blocked. If it's distracting to have to worry about life bars, go back to doing this in the dojo with the AI cpu set to max difficulty & life bars turned off. Play for 5-10 minutes or so, if you have trouble with the technique, go back to isolating it.

After you get that down, try hit checking next ( ie do your elbow follow-up if and only if the elbow counterhit ). Hard to isolate this in vf5, but vf4 evo has some good hitchecking exercises - jacky's training mode has an elbow counterhit check if i remember correctly. Lion's elbow is hard to hit-check, so you may want to try using jacky or lau for a while.

 

O meu, vc tem que vir a Brasilia para treinar, vc so vai progredir jogando contra alguem, esse negocio de treinar contra cpu num ta com nada, aqui temos infra-estrutura, high grades, etc... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

edited - kamai_ookineese deleted

 

It's Portuguese not Spanish! =P But yeah, he could have posted in English to make it easier to understand for everyone...

What he said was an invite to his hometown, since there are other VF5 players there who gather together and play often with VSHGs and everything.

Also, I haven't played much VF lately, but one thing I got out of my way was the lack of stick skills. I'm doing very well now and feeling far more comfortable than I did on the pad! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Also, a close friend got himself a PS3 and is buying VF5, we'll be practicing together every weekend, that should improve the training.

Other than that... I'll be trying to promote VF during a fighting game tourney that will be happening here every month. The fighting scene is finally growing here, I'm not sure how or why, but we got sponsored events and everything starting later this month!

 

I have trouble playing on stick, too. It's because my hands are small, and I grew up in Maine, where there were no arcades, and when there was one, there were never any fighting games, just shooters and pinball and skeeball and DDR.

 

I have big fat mongo fingers.

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/247584#Post247584

 

all u guys new to an arcade stick defenately go on even if u feel like a total arcade noob first.After 1-2 month u dont want ur pad back.fastest way to play bemus.or is there anyone out there who can dash like a wt fighting shaolin ninja using a pad?hope not

 

I'm in the same boat as Vince. Though he's a stronger man than I. With no scene here, I gave up. Just recently received a custom stick as a gift, need to learn it I suppose. Was doing that with Shit Fighter 4 until I got tired of Shit Fighting.

Might just play around in VF5 but I doubt I'll improve my game much against the blah A.I. but just maybe I'll get a bit more comfy with stick.