Getting New Players Interested?

I've been attempting to get friends interested in VF5 who are totally new to the game. People that've never, ever played a VF game in their lives. Some of them have played 2D fighters, some 3D, some both, and others none at all. I'm trying to get together a good method of showing them the basics, getting them hooked, figuring out who they want to play, then starting on the training. I've sorta been doing this already, in a kind of 'Who do you feel like playing?' line of questioning, explaining how some of the characters play, then tossing them into Dojo mode to go through the character's movelist.

I've decided that this is a very, very bad way to get people interested and keep them interested. See, I was suggesting that people start with the so-called 'beginner' characters with easier move inputs (Jacky, Sarah, Pai, Lei Fei), only to find that some of the tricker moves frustrated them.

I'm thinking that a better way to do this, would be to break down the characters by general style and difficulty to learn/perform their moves, then give them a cheat-sheet of fun, impressive looking moves/combos/throws to experiment with in free-training, BEFORE setting them loose on some easy AI character battles, -then- finally pushing them into the move-lists for more attacks.

What I'm asking here is that you guys help me put together an easy to understand breakdown of each character, as well as a few easy-to-execute and impressive looking moves/combos to both let new players experiment with each character until one feels right, and then hook people on the character they eventually choose. I'm trying to figure out a short profile for each fighter individually. I'll give examples for one of main characters here.

Lion: Strike fighter, intermediate difficulty. Good at range and up close attacking, great knockdown potential. Some fun throws, and a pair of stance-cancels that can be part of combos or used alone.
Flashy combos: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif(/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif)/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
Fun throws: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif
Useful moves: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

Something like this, I think, should be more useful than throwing people into the movelist and asking them to follow the on-screen commands. If any of you think this is a good idea, and want to help me add to this and refine things some (I just picked some moves off the top of my head for this, really), I'd appreciate it a great deal. Think of it as a 'cheat sheet' to each character to get a basic feel for their playstyle, as well as giving new players something to go 'Oh, that's neat!' over.

 

Good idea, I think you're right that some people do become overwhelmed by the trickier things to do with characters' movelists.

I'll help out with Wolf.

Wolf. Easy inputs but difficult to play due to lack of fast attacks. Close to Mid range striker/strong grappler.

Useful combos: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gifCH->/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif ; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif->/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif->/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
Useful moves: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif(do not follow-up with the next /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif input) ; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
Fun throws: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif; /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

 

Getting people interested and teaching VF can be two different things. And they both can be very tough, depends on the person.

Something I've found that helps getting people interested is getting them to play with someone around the same level as them. Easier said than done when it's not a big arcade environment on a busy night.

When I see someone get to the point where they want to get better or learn, then I start trying to help that part.

For the people getting interested, giving them a very easy to do movelist that could have decent results against beginners is good. I've found that throwing is tough for beginners to do because they might try to throw an opponent who is mashing attacks. Therefore I tend to focus on attacking and encouraging a lot of blocking.

It's a tough thing though, getting people to find their groove in VF. I tend to have a bad habit of giving off too much information and confusing the other person.

-Chanchai

 

Too true, i tried to give my mother a shot last night and well... now my sixaxis is broken, she seems to think the harder she hits the buttons the harder her character will hit the opponent.
Either way, me and my brother eventually managed to get my brothers girlfriend interested and now she's fairly good, just takes persistance and a bit of nudging in the direction of the command list i guess. Impossible with people who think the controller is a punching bag though -_-

 

lol I agree chanchai. Just last week I was trying to teach my friend how to play Evo and I felt like I had so much to say but tried not to talk too much and just play. he did fairly well though.

I think the most effective thing is to teach it as you come across the situation. Like when it comes to mid attacks(when it can/can't hit). Tech rolling etc. but until we VFers can make an outline for effectively recruiting new players. I'll help with anything.

 

Thanks for all the input!

There are some good points there, and I'll be taking them into account. I figure that giving people a little cheat sheet with some strike attacks at least is a good start, though two of the people I've introduced to the game got very interested in the throws their characters could perform. I'm going to try to get 2-3 of them together and let them play each other for a while, and point out how things work as they come across them. I'll say things like 'You can get out of that, but I'll leave that for later, it's complex' for stuff like evades, throw escapes and whatnot. I'll leave them with blocking, ducking, and attacking to start with, I think.

We've got a Lei Fei, a Jeffry, a Jacky, and a Sarah at the moment. Hoping to get a few more.

Also, Valtiel! Once you've gotten away from turning those valves, you might wanna pick up a VSHG or something to replace the broken six-axis for VF. I don't think your mom could break that as easily, it's a solid stick.

 

I think the easiest stuff to teach early would be:
-tech rolling(everytime they fall just tell them "hit all the buttons right when you fall),
-throw guaranteed moves(someone does a throw guaranteed, tell the other guy "you can throw him right after that move and he can't avoid it unless he throw escapes),
-evade,
-ducking throws,
-concept of high,mid,low attacks

 

I'd probably teach them basics along the lines of movement (8-way, dashes, crouch dashes, backdashes, etc), strikes, how throws work, how guard works, then let them play around a bit before throwing in evasion stuff.

The ideas with explaining guaranteed throws - as a move is used 0- and stuff is good, too. Just need to get a bunch of the new people together to check it out.

 

One thing that I've seen with enthusiastic VFers trying to teach noobs is that they try to show them too much too fast. VF can be an overwhelming game even for the most experienced of gamers. The amount of options, counters and counter-counters can be too much to digest all at once.

My suggestion to introduce somebody to VF is to let them have fun with the game. Try stuff out on their own. Let them tinker with the mechanics, moves and movement.

Things to point out that they might not see right away are techrolling; how well evading works in this game and how to combo. Show them that not all combos are dialed or air juggles. Show them head crumples, gut collapses and bounce combos.
Evade attacks and OM's are fun too because you can use them with the attack or without.

The intensity and amount of what you show should be proportioned with what they're willing to explore on their own. If they are trying new and different things on their own then let them have fun. But if they're not having fun because they feel that it's just like any other fighting game, that's when it's good to step it up and show them why this is the deepest fighting game out there.
Just remember to not smother them or throw too much at them at once or you might actually end up turning them off.

 

Agree with that, think it's easy to imply that months of learning is achieved instantly. Just play it and enjoy it.

Show videos of it being played well. Think learning the game has a lot of parallels with learning a musical instrument.

 

This is awesome. I was gonna post something like this as well. My main problem is I suck at showing people what's what. If I could express what's in my mind it would be pretty cinch imo. The other is $ and no PS3 yet.

 

maybe you can start by explaining the rock paper scissors concept if they are extremely new?

it kinda worked for me when i tried to explain it to some friends who never touched a fighting game before for evo

 

ive been playing VF for years now. i dont even bother convincing people to play anymore. the only thing i say to my friends who dont play VF is this. VF is (compared to the other fighing franchises) the closest thing to a fighing simulator. since the games does have real martial arts moves. of course not all the moves are real.

i train in self defense and id never fight someone with lucha libre moves. although it would be funny. ultimately its up to sega. there the ones that pay people just to advertise the game. to tell you the truth when i first played quest mode i thought it was going to eventually become a way to meet other people who play VF. you know like online matchmaking but sega didnt do shit with it.

its like you created this new quest mode sega then didnt do anything to add to it? its the same damn quest mode. its actually worse. if you were new to VF quest mode helped you learn how to play by making you pick diffrent objectives. for example stuff like counter a throw 5 times. while it might not be a big deal to some of us, other people who havent played VF can learn the basics this way.

we can do are best trying to get new players interested but in the end its segas job not ours.

 

If we want more people to play with, more tourneys held, and just generally a bigger, better community then it's our job. By now most of us already know Sega hardly cares for NA players and community. VF arcades are booming in Japan.

This thread was to throw out ideas on "getting new players interested", but everyone just keeps posting what we already know: that it's hard to get people to get into VF.(which is why Kay created the thread in the first place). I'm not flaming on anyone or anything like that. But instead of adding negative w/e about VF learning experience, try to add positive helpful stuff that might just work.

 

i know its cool dude. i see your point but you also have to see that its frustrating. when youve been playing this game for so long and its a great game but you have to convince other people too. ill only try to get new people intrested in VF if they ask about why i like the game so much. i mean look how bad it is. the fact that we have to create a topic about getting new players interested in VF.

i wish sega cared more about other VF players outside of japan but their a business and there doing what they think is best for them. i cant blame them for that. i just hope virtua fighter doesnt become something we have to import. its nice when theres no region restrictions but it sucks when there is. its also nice having the option to import games but it sucks when you have no choice.

one thing i also say to get people interested in VF. is the fact that VF is the closest thing to chess for a fighting game. i also state that it has the best gameplay and balance of any fighter. im also honest i tell people this a great game and when you start getting good matches start looking like martial arts films.

it does look pretty cool when you start learning how to play VF but like i said im honest. i tell people you cant just get good by just pressing buttons. you actually have to learn how to play but if you do learn how to play VF its one of the funnest games you can ever play. fights really do start looking really cool and it can get pretty competitive. its also one game where you can pick a character by the way he looks and not have to worry if that character isnt better than the others. since the game is so balanced.

 

leaning can be a bit difficult i suggest newbies straight up long some good combos first hand then you can learn the ways to fight. I personally play alot of fighting games so I could adjust to VF fast tho. Always good to help ppl though. It takes time to learn but learning a few good combos and maybe setups is great start.

 

An update!

I had a couple of friends over last night, and just set them at each other on versus mode after telling them BARE BONES BASICS, playing around with characters until they got ones that felt right. One guy settled on Lei Fei, though was interested in Shun, the other seemed to be really into how Sarah played. I think the funniest thing was telling them how to throw, and suddenly seeing three neutral throw-escapes, one after the other.

As I've never really played Lei Fei and Sarah, I couldn't tell them any fun moves or simple combos, so I scrolled through the movelists here and jotted down a couple, before handing them over. That helped a lot. As the evening went on, I explained briefly how evasion and quick recovery worked, and saw them have a go at it.

Hopefully, they'll come back for more another evening, we can go a little more in depth, and they won't be scared off by the complexity.

 

i'm sure it will bring tears to your eyes when your friends graduate and start doing sucessful spods on yomi

 

One way that might get players who play other fighting games into this one is to show/let them know what exactly makes this game better than, say, Tekken. I am not a big VF player, but I am thinking about getting into it when it comes out for 360. Reading through this forum gave me an idea of how to get into this if I were a complete newb at fighting games, which I aren't, but what are some things that would make me want to play this instead of my game of choice?

 

I´m or better will be new to VF in the near future.
So I´m already interested, and I know that I´ll have to invest quite a lot if not all of my "video-gaming-time" if I´d like to get good at this game.
I´m not new to fighting games, but (except VF2 PC) I´m totally new to VF.
I have known that I´ll invest time and work in VF5 since I saw the first videos and heard that it´ll be ported to the 360.
My question is, how should I enter the game, what should I do first? (additionally to what was already posted in this thread.)
What is still like in VF2, what can I prepare there?
And I know, if it comes to details or more advanced technics, I can find whatever I like in this forum.
But what I need is something like a first-steps guide.

And no, I don´t have a PS2, so can´t train with Evo.

Thanks for your help,
Arest