How to get started

I had no idea where to post this so I decided to throw it here. Either way I'm a Tekken/Marvel player and just felt like adding a new game to my repertoire. All I have is VF4:Evo, but I plan to get VF5 sooner or later. I simply want to know is where do I start off on the path of becoming a competent player?

 

Play through the EVO tutorial, read old info on forums (combos/frames), learn basics of all characters, teach and play friends.

 

Welcome to VFDC CornerTrap /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Good to see you here.

VF4:Evo's tutorials, tactics advice, and challenge mode will help build a really strong foundation in your general VF game. The basics are still the basics. It sounds deceptively simple, but I stress it because VF flows differently from a lot of other fighting games.

The rules of initiative are the same. They sound so simple that people learning VF take them for granted (but often don't play according to the initiative anyways, even if their response is "I know!"--but your game and how you play it is what ultimately answers truthfully).

General Rules of Initiative:
-If the situation is neutral and nothing is happening, you can either attack or defend.
-If you attack successfully, attack again.
-If your attack is defended against, defend right away.
-If your defense fails, keep defending.
-If you successfully defend an attack (block, dodge, or opponent whiffs), then attack.

I cannot stress the initiative enough, but there's a reason for stressing "something so basic." The initiative is stressed because almost every move in Virtua Fighter will put you at a disadvantage if the opponent blocks them. And often at a disadvantage when the opponent dodges them.

In some other fighting games, you can keep pressuring a blocking opponent. In VF, you "generally" can't, despite some exceptions. At least on a basic level you can't keep pressuring a blocking opponent if they are successfully defending your attacks. If you keep attacking someone who has blocked your attack, there's a good chance they'll hit you out of your attack.

So do know that when the tutorials tell you this basic bit about the initiative, or when I bring it up, or anyone brings it up... it's because in VF, it's very strict with the initiative in general. Later on you learn how to override the initiative a bit, but it can be argued that you're really just using defensive options with aggressive results.

Also, my biggest tip to someone starting VF (at least starting serious VF) is to "throw yourself into hell" by fighting up close as much as you can. Especially against a human opponent. Being able to fight up-close and toe-to-toe is the foundation of VF in my opinion. You will eventually use lots of spacing and what not, but the fight will always go back to the up-close exchanges at some point. And that's where the battles are usually won and lost.

Some quick notes:

-Low punch is special low, which in VF means that it can be blocked high and low. It's still a wonderful stopping move that sets up flowcharts.

-Throws in VF don't beat attacks (though in VF5 there are clash situations, but don't worry about those now, not even when you've just gotten VF5). You use throws when you've conditioned your opponent to block (especially conditioned them to block mid attacks). You also use them when you think they will dodge.

-Throws and Mid Attacks make up the basic 50/50 guessing game of VF (but there are very good reasons to use high attacks, low attacks, and low throws too).

-I personally recommend thinking of VF as having a "Move-by-move" flow. One move at a time. If that move was blocked, I defend (high block, low block, dodge, whatever). If I hit, go on to next move. So work on poking skills first. Again, throw yourself into hell until your comfortable fighting up-close. Against a human is preferred, but you can do this with AI as well.

-Like any fighter, there are guaranteed attacks when blocking certain attacks. So certainly learn some of those.

-Setting up combos comes a bit later, but you'll get there soon enough.

-Again, Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution's training mode, tactics advice (the ideas behind the tactics more than the specific move sequences), and the challenge mode in the training mode are the best I've seen in a fighting game. USE THEM. EVEN FOR VF5!

Anyways, I hope the above helps. Feel free to private message me or contact me anytime and I'll do what I can to help /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif But also feel free to ask others here. Until the board gets flooded with 360 VFers, some of us like myself have time on our hands

-Chanchai

 

very nice read, ok vf5 is my 1st game of the series and i want to learn the game 1st with 1 fighter and stick with him/her until i learn the bascis, so what good fighter for me to start with that has good damage etc, what i really want to do is be able to go around my friends house who just taps any button randomly and usually beats me always, where i try to set some moves up and always get beat, so how do i beat a button tapper that just hopes to hit me and usually beats me ? even when im pressing guard button he takes damage off me and get's through am i doing something wrong maybe when i am guarding, what good fighter can i use to beat him, and how can i train in vf5 like evo vf4, thx

 

great thread, im in the sameboat as cornertrap and daytrader.

i have vf5 and a ps3. i plan on getting VF4:evo

 

My general, personal, advice is to pick a character you like, no matter what. VFs is relatively balanced (I say relative, because it's in relation to fighting games in general), but some characters are much harder to learn than others--but it depends on what level of competition we're talking about.

Any character you use should be able to handle mashers and beginners. Any character you use should eventually be able to hang in there at high level play if you achieve that level of play. There are still a lot of Aoi players in Japan despite the reputation she's getting in VF5.

But... to take a small break from my advice I guess... it's not bad to play around with a strong general character to learn the basics and get a feel for the game.

For people looking for a strong general character, just to start with until they are more comfortable with the game... I've ended up recommending Pai and Jacky. For VF5, especially Pai considering what has been written so far in English for Pai.

Check out these lists of moves that people like a lot for VF5 Pai and mess around with them a bit:

MyCheats Guide: Section on Pai - by VFDC's own Srider and Myke

VFDC Thread - Best Pai Moves - Your Opinion

The above links aren't the end all and be all of your quest to learn Pai. But they are excellent starting points because they highlight some attacks that have become really popular for Pai to use. Learning a character's movelist is a daunting task and you should strive to completely know it eventually--but it helps to feel comfortable with a few key signature moves first /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR VF QUEST FOR MASTERY!

-Chanchai

 

Chanchai thanks for the wonderful advice, and I remember you telling me that Lion was your favorite character. He was my favorite before when I played VF casually(then I picked up akira), so I guess I'll pick him up since I already have a great tutor to help me(i.e. you). And is guaranteed damage the same thing as block punishing in Tekken? I hate having to learn new terms in fighting games.

EDIT:

How do I get an avatar? I tried placing one on and it didn't work.

EDIT #2:

Does anyone know where I can find frame data lists for VF4:Evo? And have the frames changed much in the shift to VF5?

EDIT #3:

Why doesn't VF revolve around mid/low attacks for 50/50 mixups like most fighting games?

 

VF does revolve around mid/low, since you much be crouching in order to defend against a throw. But if you think about risk/reward ratio, throws are much more damaging as a counter for high guarding opponents.

 

0: I'll do what I can to help you out with Lion. He is a character I know some things about.

Well, there isn't an official term for "block punishing." But yeah, when we say guaranteed damage, we mean guaranteed attacks/combos when blocking certain attacks.

UPDATE: Actually, there is a term... mC, which stands for minor Counter. Because you were counter-attacking the previous attack. Whereas a counter-hit is known in VF as MC, standing for Major Counter. You see a yellow flash when you MC in VF4-5. In VF1-5, you hear a bigger sound on hit.

1: Hmm.. make sure to read the avatar size requirements. I'm not sure if that's the issue you ran into, but I've had to edit avatars to get them to work in the past.

2: VF4: Evo frame data lists and other info can be found here. Click on a character and it'll give you a list of articles and movelists for the character. Under the character's section, go for Evolution Command List version B. I think (I'm pretty sure PS2 version is B).

Frame data has changed in ways, but it isn't too drastic with some characters. Akira does feel like a new character since Evo. However, Lion actually plays very similar in VF5 and a lot of general stuff carries over.

3: What Srider said. It actually does revolve around Mid/Low/Throw. Throw is emphasized because so long as your opponent is defending (blocking high or dodging), your throw is a relatively low risk option and is often damaging. Even if the opponent plugs in the proper throw escape, most throw escape situations are safe for the thrower. However, if your opponent always goes for some attack at disadvantage, any decently fast mid attack or low attack should take them if you had the advantage.

Low attacks were much more emphasized in VF1-3tb imo, especially when low punch was a pure low attack. Low kicks used to be pretty good for some characters too, heck a lot of characters. In early versions of VF3, Wolf had this ability to pretty much get free throws if his Low Kick MC'd (counter-hit, in VF it's called Major Counter because "Block Punish" used to be called minor Counter, mC).

Currently, a common problem with using low attacks is that you generally don't get much damage from them (compared to a throw or launching mid attacks), and most low attacks leave a heavy disadvantage now when blocked (with a lot of low attacks blocked against Akira, expect to eat a Double Palm now and then).

Also, if you go for a low poke, there's the risk that the opponent's dodge (that might have been intended for a mid poke) will cover that too.

I will say that Low attacks are still very valid and very common in VF despite this emphasis on Mid/Throw in modern VF theory. Lion's b, df+P is excellent if you know a high attack (or even throw) is coming, it sets up the f,f+KK followup. But if it's blocked or dodged, it's screwed (so I don't emphasize using the move in the normal flow of up close combat unless you know it's going to slip under an incoming attack for sure).

Also, if your opponents do get to the point where they are going for multiple throw escapes followed by a guard or preceded by a dodge (option select), it's not a bad time for a sweep to keep them honest (and remembering to block low).

In classic VF (1-3tb), I think there were a lot more low attacks used. At least in North America. In VF1-3tb, throws were usually your first go to guarantee because they were the first guaranteed option. But low attacks were probably used a bit more in the close-up exchanges, and I think they were a lot safer than they are now. However, another factor in VF3-VF3tb was that sometimes you used lows because your character didn't have enough diversity in throws, and in those games there were a lot of throw escape situations which were bad for the thrower. It was a very different dynamic.

But VF4-VF5 have really retuned the role of low attacks, giving more incentive to throw in the close-up exchanges, while lows still have their values but aren't as prominant as they once were.

My impression is that VF1-3tb really emphasized more "moral" play with pure guessing games because it was a lot of low/mid mixing up. But VF4-5 has sort of emphasized the use of layered defensive options (option selects) to cut down on what your opponent can do on offense, and often leading to a lot more neutral situations, perhaps arguably "more intense exchanges."

Others will probably disagree, but I feel like "classic" VF play was a lot of Paper-Rock-Scissor controlled and flowing by initiative. While modern VF since VF4 has the same elements, but they've added dynamite, rusting agents, and other things that kill two of the three birds with one layered stone. Still have initiative, still have moral play, but you also have options D, E, and F.

I love both styles of gameplay.

Hope that answers your questions /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

-Chanchai

 

Chanchai said it before, but I think its rather important if you're coming from Tekken. VF's Throws are a employed a lot more, they do more damage, have more range and are harder to escape than their Tekken counterparts.

Generally Tekken is based on mid/low with throws mixed in to keep your opponent on their toes, while VF is mid/throw with lows mixed in.

This is because in VF almost all lows leave you at disadvantage, even on hit. Also, few (if any) have 'true combo' follow-ups. On a counter hit most lows leave you with a tad bit of advantage. This is if the low isn't a sweep that knocks the opponent down of course, but those almost always leave one open for guaranteed punishment when blocked.

"Guaranteed attack" and "guaranteed throw" are indeed the terms used instead of block punishing. Chanchai: They're in the VF4E tutorials, so I'd call that official.

 

Thanks for the clarification and followup Vortigar /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Mass commands list ! And stick to a character.

 

thx Chanchai and others for great advice, i will go take a look at the guides, thx

 

i was just looking at the nice guides and i got a question what's the difference between 64PP & 2_4P i mean the _ why is it not just 24P ?, also when they decided to do the guide how come they did not use the face of a clock dial as movement guide i mean like 3= forward and 9=back and 6=down and 12=up that would have been easyier to remember or is there another reason im just curious thx, oh and whats a 5= neutral mean.

 

The numbers are based on the 10-key pad on a keyboard...

789
456
123

They correspond to joystick directions when sitting on the 1 Player side. The number system is a type of shorthand for move notation. I've seen it used for other games.


64PP = tap 6, tap 4 and P at the same time*, tap P again

2_4 = hold 2**, tap 4 and P at the same time



*VF commands almost always work like this - the last tap is done in conjunction with a button press - 6P, 66P, 666P, etc. There are instances to delay button pressing: Akira's bodycheck, 466P+K, can do more damage if the P+K input is slightly delayed - it allows him to get closer to the opponent before striking.

**A hold can be replaced with a crouch-dash for most (if not all) from-crouch moves. So, 2_4PP = 114PP or 334PP.

 

ah thx for that i did not think of the 10-key pad that explains it well now, so _ always = hold correct ?

 

Correct, _ = hold.

-----------

To clarify the crouch dash point that Plague was making. 2_ means holding the down direction (to crouch in these cases). So I'll use 2_6P as an example again.

2_6P = D, f+P = Hold down, then tap f+P = (Crouch), f+P.

There is a way to get to a crouch state MUCH FASTER than holding down. That would be doing a Crouch Dash. You can crouch dash either forward or backwards.

Crouch Dash = db,db or df,df = 11 or 33.

When crouch dashing, you end up in a crouching position almost right away. This is important because when you're doing a move like 2_4P, it will take awhile to just crouch, and then do the move. You won't feel like you can do it right away.

But if you quickly do:

df, df, f+P = 336P

You can do the move almost instantly as if you did it while standing up.

That's all you really need to know there, but in case you dig up old faqs or someone writes in the archaic fashion like myself, here are the different ways this can be represented:

2_6P (standard, you just assume it means you have to be crouched)

D,f+P (english notation of the above)

m-f+P (in VF1-3tb days, this meant "Modified f+P." A modified move just meant you buffered crouch dashed before the move).

 

ah thx again what i dont quite understand is this

2_4P (standard, you just assume it means you have to be crouched)

i know the 2 =crouch and P = punch but dont 4 = back so 2_4P would make me move back while punching and crouched, and if im meant to like hold 2 down how can i then press 4 = back and punch without takeing my finger off 2 as im useing just the ps3 controller ?

this is where a online training mode for vf5 would have come in useful with headset so you could just take me to a ring and showed me this stuff /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

2_4P means that your going to hold 2 long enough to be considered crouching then you press 4P.

 

so 4 = forward or back, and is 4P meant to be pressed exactly together or tapped in order, thx