Importance of ura in 4 as compared to 3

This is just based on a few hours with the PS2 verson, but it seems that the entire ura game is not as important as it was in three. Anybody agree, disagree? why?

 

Ura was never really important, it was just a small, flashy part of the general concept of okizeme. Okizeme however, is very important. Ura is easier in VF4, but it's still unrewarding... besides jacky, not many characters have awesome turn-toward attacks. So it's better to use conventional oki techniques (like dodging a rising attack and punishing the opponent) or some of VF4's new ones (interrupting rising attacks with strong moves... staggering opponents who get up with nothing... punishing TR's).

 

Actually Lei-Fei is really strong BT..

His "TT K+G" has a really inconsistent execution. I mean how hard is it to hit two buttons together.

In the command training mode I tried doing it for a few mins and he kept executing the turn-around and "K+G" rather than the TT attack.

Only after I used a more conventional method of BackTurning as opposed to the pre-backturned method given by the training mode could I do the move consistently.

Another issue is that Lei cannot seem to Back Turn and hop. Can someone confirm this for me?

 

Just to push a bit further, would you say okizeme is more or less important from 3 to 4?

 

His "TT K+G" has a really inconsistent execution. I mean how hard is it to hit two buttons together.

Try doing it like Akira's knee, except release K after a split second instead of G.

 

Though I've performed Ura a decent number of times in VF4, I really think VF3tb Ura was way easier. Of course, I'm speaking in the context of a Lion player. And I guess you could also ask someone who played me last May about how often I would do ura in VF3tb/versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

VF4's extremely fast turn around makes ura less worthwhile to use as far as I can tell. It seems like in order for ura to be worthwhile, you have to have a big advantage over your opponent.

One thing I really miss about VF3tb (well, except when I play it--which I still do) is the ura. The amount of them in the game as well as the application of them.

-Chanchai

 

it's less important by virtue of people being able to TR. It's easy to say "yeah but pressing TR's is all part of oki!" but a lot of times you can't pressure at all, and time times you can, the opponent has a lot of ways to outsmart you (anything that can be done from crouch rather than just forcing a high/low guessing game with rising attacks). More options means okizeme is harder, and the rewards aren't what they used to either.

I'd say that in VF2 a good player can keep the opponent on their back throughout the round. In VF3 it was harder but also doable. But in VF4 I can't see it happening, the riser has many options and can't get outsmarted every time unless the pressurer is really smart (or the riser is really dumb and refuses to adapt).

 

Well, my memory of 2 is not quite as sharp, but I do remember being able to just keep people really pressured with Sarah. With 3, I never fully developed a good oki/ura game...but from the last few hours of playing the computer in 4 on the ps2, I do have to agree that the risk/reward benefit is not what it was in 3 (in not as worth while)..Maybe, as players progress, this will change.

 

In relation to VF3, okizeme is more emphasized...

 

My view on VF4's ura...

I agree with Chanchai in that ura in VF3 was way easier. In fact, I haven't seen *any* ura in VF4 so far.

Now, I disclaim that statement with the following: Ura, imo, is not body crossing. That's different. Ura was the ability for you to make your opponent rise with their back to you. You do not have your back to them. That's what made ura so powerful in VF3. I haven't seen this in VF4 yet. I've seen nice dodges of rising attacks to get to the opponent's back, and I've body crossed my opponent a zillion times. But that's not ura. Watch GodEater's ura clip again. Most of the video is true ura, but some of it is just plain ol' body crossing.

So, to answer Shadowdean, do I think ura is more effective in VF3? Hell, yes. Is it possible to do it in VF4 to the extent that it was in VF3? That remains to be seen.

cheers,

 

Re: My view on VF4's ura...

Whats body crossing for you? Hopping over a downed opp.? Or warping through them (i.e. Akira's d/f+P+G then d/f+P+K+G | double palm or Lion's P+G, Px sequences )?
Only peeps I've seen facing their opps and their opps having back turned as they rise are characters like Lion and jacky who can do a TA and back hop over the downed opp.. Is that true Ura?

 

Re: My view on VF4's ura...

Hehehe, Llanny gets pretty technical when it comes to ura and okizeme (or is it just VF in general? hehe). But at the same time, I'm usually one to agree with his definitions, I just don't talk about them too much.

Anyways, here's what I gather from his posts:

1) True Ura - Opponent stands up backwards in a case where it is odd, as if he did it to himself.

2) Okizeme Ura - For me, this is the most common ura that I did in VF3tb. Basically, a form of axis-whoring (using 3d movement) to position yourself behind your opponent. Timing varies from strict to loose. I am assuming VF3tb Lion's P+G --> dodge to back --> f+P+E falls in this category.

3) Body Crossing - most popular form is any type of hop over opponent's body. Other forms (I believe) include using certain moves to go across a fallen opponent. Akira has/had a number of these. VF2 Lion had f+PP. Etc....

Llany, was that all close to correct with your definitions?

-Chanchai

 

Re: My view on VF4's ura...

Bring the vocab LLan /versus/images/icons/smile.gif !

 

Yeah!

Hehe...I can take the loosely translated form - that I agree with, no problemo. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

However, the reason I make a distinction in my definitions of Ura is because some of it is taking advantage of the mechanics of the game, and some of it is not meant to be there.

The stuff that's not meant to be there, ie Akira's df+P+G, f,f, dodge towards the head in VF3, or Aoi's d+K+G, dodge towards the feet, is buggy. It shouldn't happen. Now do we all take advantage of the buggy situation? Yep. I loved doing that shit with Akira as it gave me wonderful opportunities for a meatplow. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

That being said, sure, from the loose translation of the term Uramawari, it's all good. But some of it, the best stuff, is not supposed to happen. Furthermore, you can see that there really is a distinction because, so far (I could be wrong), it's not in VF4. My guess is that they worked out the bugs in that part of rising.

cheers,

 

Re: Yeah!

actually, they may not have worked out anything that was *buggy* but rather made changes that eroded the underlying mechanics of Uramawari.

one of the biggest factores in applying Ura was the ability to dodge like you could in VF3. now that type of dodging only exists when you are given something to dodge, an attack. with that gone and the ability to rise almost instantly I don't think you can confuse the game system in believing your position is anywhere but where you are (as readily). The strict conditions for Ura just don't seem to exist anymore.

I've always relied on the translation of Ura as "rotate the back" (refering to the opponent) to determine what was "true" Uramawari or not. This rotating actually does occur. The game system believes you are elsewhere and turns the opponent to face you but in reality you have fooled it and are somewhere else.

I would tend to draw a distinction (at least with VF3/TB) between ura and plain old bodycrossing because the two *are* different. One disturbs the opponent's placement in the ring based on an accounting error, the other tracks your presence perfectly in relation to your opponent but you may gain a terrain or frame advantage.

GE

 

Re: Yeah!

Well, there are three categories of ura:

- "Bodycrossing" with an attack

- Getting into opponent's "space" and dodging to opponent's back when rolling sideways

- Methods to "trick" the CPU into making the opponent rise with back towards you

The first two are systematic, the third is usually a bug. With that in mind, I don't think it's necessary to separate stuff out of what we call ura; seems unnecessarily complicated.

 

Re: Yeah!

hmmm, well as I stated before, in my opinion, body crossing isn't uramawari. Not the way the term was almost always applied anyway. I remember bringing up body cross techniques and they stood independant of real ura. But again, a words definition comes from usage its not inherent in the word itself. If the community applies it this way than it certainly is true.

I agree with the other two categories and even addressed both in my Ura Guide (found somewhere on this site I believe) but I was wondering about something: you say that the accounting error is coincidence. How are you using that word? coincidence usually means an accidental occurance that *appears* to have happened through planning. Mechanical Ura (the "glitch" variant) is very systematic. It can be applied and re-applied without fail when one knows the conditions required.

GE

 

Re: Yeah!

I noticed the very same thing after re-reading my post. /versus/images/icons/wink.gif Edited to clarify...

 

Re: Yeah!

If I'm reading your definition correctly, ura in your mind applies more to the buggy aspect than anything else, but wasn't the term was around in VF2? Or am I on crack?

Anyway, my point would be that if ura was used to describe situations in VF2, it would have to be one of the 'non-buggy' types...bodycrossing or using shun/lion to dodge to the back.
What's the literal translation of the term?