Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feelings?

First off my mind is playing with two memories.

1.Throw animations were sped up so you can't land a punch then imediately follow with a throw.

note: can't recall if that was FT,VF5, or if ever


2."looks like the trows have been slowed down" "dude the throws are slower"

Note: not actual recalled quotes. Just the random jumbled hear say my mind is throwing at me.



Now with that said on to the point.

1/3
Do you see people in a disadvantaged situation pulling a throw out to force a clash and "reset" the situation?

note:
This is assumeing throws are faster then any Offensive attack.

2/3
If you do for see this how do you see this effecting the place/use of other Deffensive options.(Block,parry,DM,OM)

3/3
How do you personaly feel about the prospects of intentional clashing if indeed you actually see it comeing into play?






Personaly I'm for any balenced options added to the game. "Take that as dry and litaral as possible"

"sigh ...someones not going to understand that."
(that means I'm not giveing an opinion either way on the topic other then the genneral topic of any addition to the game.)

Yes my spelling is ass!

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

Throws are universally slower now in VF5.

People will not always intentionally attack to reset the situation, the throw clash actually makes things safer for the thrower.

The reason is that if people are going to intentionally attack to clash a throw in a disadvantaged situation, they will eat a launcher or OM side hit for much bigger damage.

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

It sounds like you take me as saying that people might start throwing punches or kicks out to stop a throw.

I'm refering to the opposite situation of attempting a throw in a disadvantaged situation to force a clash against your opponents puch or kick.

But as I said earlyer that was under the assumption that throws were universaly faster then attacks or at the least faster then a particular type of attack
(example: Mids)-and no that doesn't mean I'm saying throws are universaly faster then mids.





Yes my spelling is bad, I know it and now you do to!

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

[ QUOTE ]
I'm refering to the opposite situation of attempting a throw in a disadvantaged situation to force a clash against your opponents puch or kick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, it doesn't work that way. The clash occurs when attempting to throw in an advantaged situation - not a disadvantaged one.

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

Hello jerky! (waves)

That's kinda odd of the game to keep track of character (dis)advantage when I've never seen the game keep track of any variables to determine an action other then (hit detection, body motion,body position, ring position, frame position, foot position, and player input.)
Hmm... I feel that I'm being a tad bit bit anal !?

Given what you said I take it that that given a player input from a disadvantaged situation the resulting frame postioning of that input wouldn't allow the throw attempt to clash with an attack.
God that was long winded of me. How bout ...
"From disadv. a throw is to slow to clash!?!?" ...hmm,sounds good no?

That acually leads into another question. Does the clash window occur throught the throw animation window or only at the point of impact(throw). I haven't seen a vid were a person initiated a throw but was hit because the throw didn't get to the point in the animation were the clash occured. Think of how it looks when a person in VF4:evo gets hit cause the throw attempt didn't get to the point in the animation were the actual throw occurs.(not exactly how throw attempts while your opponent is attacking works but, you get the visualization.)

Seems like clashing is there in defensive of slower throws. In which case dispite how slow the throw animation is from a disadvantage you could still use a throw attempt to force a clash against your opponents punch or kick.

Well that is unless the game actually does keep track of a players advantage like jerky implide and in a disadv. state simply doesn't allow it. In that case, forget the whole topic!



Yes I know, my spelling is asstastic!

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

[ QUOTE ]
That's kinda odd of the game to keep track of character (dis)advantage when I've never seen the game keep track of any variables to determine an action other then (hit detection, body motion,body position, ring position, frame position, foot position, and player input.)
Hmm... I feel that I'm being a tad bit bit anal !?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the game always has algorithms going left and right throughout to determine situations. In this case it's comparing the throw execution frames to the attack execution. Throw came first(advantage)? Clash. Attack came first(disadvantage)? No clash. It's pretty much the same as what constitutes a successful major counter attack for example.

Edit: As Srider suggests, this is a gamplay mechanic designed to discourage abare play. So in order not to take severe damage from a side/back crumple one must implement the game's defensive techniques... then of course there is a time and place for someone to gamble and go for the clash. See why we love VF? /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

The clash system really isn't bad as people have stated, since you can't really abuse it; it protects the thrower throwing at advantage against someone using a small attack for RN.

However, I think the 0 frame throws are going to be an issue. Look at this video: mms://www.hk-vf.net/vf5_rev.1/2006-8-22_22_36_KAGE_vs_VANESSA.wmv

At the end of the match, Vanessa hits Kage with a guaranteed high P, then immediately throws. Since Vanessa has frame advantage, she gets the normal slow throw (since Kage is not in a throwable state when the Vane player hits P+G; he is in hitstun). Right after being hit by the high P, the Kage player responds with P+G, and gets a 0 frame throw and throws the Vanessa player ftw.

I am envisioning setups by encouraging your opponent to throw immediately after guarding a move, etc. and then 0 frame-throwing their slow throw.

AM2 needs to make slow throw exe a "non-0 frame-throwable" state so that if you throw right after someone else executes a slow throw, you get a slow throw as well and get thrown first.

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

Yes, but at the same time, wouldnt 0 executions be somwhat of a good thing to help throw characters against strikers?

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

I think what happened is that the Vanessa player crouch dashed to try an do a 0 frame throw, but messed up the timing.

If she hadn't done that, normal grab animation would still have came out, but it would register in time for the throw to beat the 0 frame throw.

To be honest though, I'm not exactly sure what the situation is in the clip, and the above is something that I'm proposing. What this does show is that doing delayed throws in small advantages is now the opportunity for big reverse nitaku attacks. In the example shown, the 0-frame throw can be substituted by a bigger attack and it will launch the initial thrower. So this is not really a 0-frame throw specific reverse nitaku technique, but rather applies to reverse nitaku in general.

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

Indeed that is plausible as well. Just have to wait for awhile for info from jp players to be released. :'( Cant wait to get my hands onf vf5 next year >_<

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

The way I understood 0 frame throwing this situation makes perfect sense but what I can't figure out is why would you attempt a throw while your opponent is in recovery? That makes no sense but I figure everyone makes mistakes.

GE

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

How about bizarre sequences like this one at the 2:10 mark?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id3fHEFl-IU

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

I've done this on accident a number of times. IMO, I think the Kage player was trying to throw escape rather than throw. 0 frame throws will come out at the most surprising of times. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

From what I've seen, you can perform a 0 frame throw on:
- an idle character (of course)
- slow throw attempt (seen in the video)
- during recovery of a slow high move that whiffs (ie most roundhouses)
- OM (the game considers this idling until you OM->attack).

It seems if your opponent whiffs an attack and you didn't evade, then the entire recovery frames of that attack are open to 0 frame throws.

In general, any non-attack movements (slow throw attempts included) are open to 0 frame throw abuse. It would seem more natural to me that if a 0 frame throw was executed during a slow throw attempt, the throw/move clash would result. Then again, it makes sense they way it is now because if 0 frame was stoppable by something else after the 0 frame was confirmed, then it wouldn't be a 0 frame throw. Of course Sega could consider slow throw an attack of sorts and make 0 frame throw impossible in that situation, but I don't see any reason to change it.

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

I think Akira went for 64p+g which in that case as you know results in regular throw winning.

Edit: ppffft lol. nm i see what you're talking about.

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

okay, that makes sense. risky, I'd say and hard to manage but it now makes sense.

thanks.

GE

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

After thinking about it for a while, I think the idea of being able to 0-frame throw a 14-frame throw attempt makes sense and makes the game more interesting. One of the big things about VF5 is to encourage throws--the clash makes throw attempts at advantage much more safe. This leads to situations where nitaku after LP counter is very, very strong. What are opponents to do? Well it seems like going for the 0-frame throw is one option--I think it's fair because as Myke pointed out it's ballsy to 0-frame throw on a disadvantaged (not TCable) situation; it doesn't work against anything else except if the opponent attempts to throw you (or just stands there and blocks, but that's not likely). High risk should lead to high reward, right?

I think a lot of us right now are thinking about VF5 with a VF4 mindset, but we should give AM2 a chance to show that their new system works and makes sense. I remember when VF4 came out, a lot of people moaned about how throws had execution frames; when compared to VF3 it looked so strange.

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

Hi, I have some questions about the clash...

If you do an attack move that avoid high attacks and throw( like Pai's + or Aoi's + ) in a disavantage situation and the foe perform a throw, does the clash animation occur?
Same question with a move what have tech crouch properties(like the universal + )
Thanks!

 

Re: Intentional clashing"parrying" do you see it happening? Your feeli

Moves that have crouch properties do not clash with throws.