Is VF Devolving?

Do you personally think that VF is dumbing down gameplay-wise?

I mean, in the transition from VF4 to VF5, a lot of moves have gotten easier, along with other more/less important additions. Do you think that's a good or bad thing?

 

I think using the term dumbing down to point at simplified imputs is a diservice to games in general.

 

But I haven't pointed at simplified inputs as a cause. It's just an example of debate.

I'm just wondering whether people think that, amongst other stuff that the clash system, movement changes, slower throws etc. has added and/or taken away from the depth of the gameplay.

 

i'm kinda mixed on the whole simplified inputs.

The idea of super difficult power moves and picture perfect execution is a very romanticized notion. In theory it is great. In theory your execution skills are going to increase proportionately to ur knowledge base. Works great.

However, in real life that isn't always the case. Maybe isn't usually the case. And think of how bad the xbox pad is, or how quickly the average Hori wears out in so many different ways. Think of all the times u know the right move and somehow flub 3k and get 6k. And so on and so on. Also, do u really want input diffulties to determine the ceiling of how good u can get?

On the other hand. What akira user does not relish the "bad-ass-ness" of hitting SPOD's like they were nothing. I wish lei had some tough 3 part hit throw i could go show off.

Ultimately, i feel like game knowledge and awareness should trump input precision in determining how strong a player can get. I just don't like the idea of inputs restricting potential. I've also thought of subbing akira for the joy of his difficult inputs. It really is a tough call. I guess the direct answer is i don't see it as a de-evolution at all. But i can't say whether it is for the better either.

 

I agree with social.

 

For the record I hate change. But in terms of addressing something besides the difficulty of the commands in regards to what has changed, I think it has been for the better. I hated getting hit by a drawn out attack while I my throw attempt was whiffing. I love the 0f throws and the OM is great, though I question if all styles should really have a move that's emphasized in Jeet Kun Do. I think they have also tried to find a use for every move. And characters with multi-stances flow a lot better, not just lei fei. But the interface sucks. And the xbox 360 sucks. I have my VF5 on PS3 just because of the controller, but no online play is a joke. I just recently got the game because personal troubles have prevented me getting it sooner, though Ive been lookibg forward to it for years.
Yeah, its better.

 

In japan the same top players are still winning most the tournaments just like in VF4 so I dont think its much of a problem. At the end of the day the game on that level just comes down to yomi and whos day it was.

 

Simplified inputs depends. Akira's DLC has two inputs so it rewards casual players but a hardcore player can still whip out that last b,f,f+p+k. The easier throw escape thing allows for one TEG and not TTEG so it doesn't interfere with high level play.

If you want simplified controls dumbing down the game go play Super Turbo then play HDR.

The clash system to me logically makes sense in terms of moral play. In VF4 in a nitaku situation between a throw and an attack the game heavily encouraged abare.

If you were at a disadvantage between being attacked and thrown let's look at the options.

If your opponent attacks and you guard you take no damage, if they throw and you guard you eat damage.

If your opponent attacks and you attack you eat damage, if your opponent throws and you attack with a huge launcher you get a big combo.

So the results in those four scenarios for the person at disadvantage were: eat damage attack, eat damage throw, guard attack, launch combo.

Now with clash if you attack from disadvantage you will clash a throw attempt, so the results are: eat damage attack, eat throw attack, guard attack, clash.

Now in VF5 the best options you get at a disadvantage is guarding an attack because clashing resets to +0.

I realize that this example is INSANELY simplified but I think Sega did clash not to dumb down the game but to force moral decisions.

 

I have no problems with clash or improved fuzzy guard etc. Its all good. The problem with above is that there are too many attacks that trump the above system with their special properties and these arent divided equally among characters. Naturally special properties with certain characters add spice to the characters. But theres a limit to that.

I DO have a problem with inputs that are being simplified too much. I think skill at inputs is a worthwhile skill in fighting games along with tactical(yomi) skills. Its 'traditional' and should always be there to a certain extent. So far this hasnt been taken too far in VF but the direction is clear, and I question it. I want to use the joystick. Not just press buttons in a predetermined sequence and timing.

I would find games with no input difficulty boring to play.

 

Pressing buttons in a predetermined sequence and timing is hard -- I still can't do vane's low punch rebounce combos /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Im not disputing that, I just dont want the combos to be ONLY about that, like normal links in SF4.

 

I just hate they slowed the pace on some characters but it's good they sped the slow characters up. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

 

eh personally, i HATE super hard inputs.
it just presents an annoying learning curve to learning a new character and losing a match because you slightly inputed something wrong? its just rediculous. Also precise timing moves are a bit annoying too, like Goh's counterhit-to-throw moves. There fun to get but if the character relies on them alot then its just troublesome especially with lag and stuff involved.

having a few super hard inputs, or hard to input characters is a nice addition for pros or people who like hard inputs. For example, its good that a hard-to-input character like akira is in the game, but if EVERYONE or MOST was like that i doubt i would play VF5 as much.

i believe predicting the opponent, thinking ahead, and mind games is where the fun in fighting games really comes from. atleast for me.

Also it physically hurts your hands sometimes, and buying a stick is such an annoying moneydump /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

The current setup of VF i think is good. A few hard to input things that only change damage slightly, and some tough to use characters, although i think Goh needs to be a LITTLE easier to use or something...

 

As far as I know /See , VF is till considered the best gameplay-wise (By those who are hardcore fighting genre ) .But , then again making your game easier is not a bad Idea .The thing is that fighting genre has lost popularity and many old hardcore fans stopped playing fighting games .Today's gamers love games to be ""pick it up and play it fastly , sell it and get something else "".Thats why I think that in order to get new fans make the game a little easier .Thats doesn't harm as it gets easier for all the pro and the noobs .

All in all VF5 is the deepest fighting game for this gen .And SF IV doenst even get close .

 

I rather practice strategy than inputs.

 

Sega gave me El Blaze so I wouldn't have to worry about hard inputs. What I tend to do if if there's a character that I want to play, but I physically can't do the input for something highly important to them, I won't mess with the character until I can actually do it.

I.e., in Tekken 5, I more or less didn't play King until I could do Instant Shining Wizards at will. Just didn't feel right until I could.

 

I feel like the guys who were good in 4 were the guys who learned the stats and strings and throws, more or less for all the characters, especially their own. And they also practice all the fuzzy guard skills and DETEG and different fancy evasive movement techniques.

Those are in general the same skills that will help in VF5, even 5 emphasizes strings more and there less throw counterable moves, etc. VF5 does have tons of strings that are even more useful than before. AM2 really reversed what their apparent former design philosophy was: that characters will not have super useful strings that are hard to figure out when defending.

I remember in VF3 in the arcade I would get owned by Taiwanese guys for finishing Jacky strings. Even when I broke them off in the middle I usually suffered for it. Now they like to give guys very powerful Dial-a-combos. This both dumbs down the game and makes it more esoteric. I mean that you can now (with some chars more than others) mount an offense with strings you dial up. To best defend these, the other player needs to know the ins and outs of other chars moves/strings.

I personally wish that gameplay-wise VF5 was a cross between 3 and 4 and not an extension of the differences from 3 that emerged in 4.

 

It was different in VF4 where you could practise pretty much any game related thing at dojo by yourself using the record mode

 

You might want to chk out the yomi card game then.

Capcom denied Sirlin the use of SF characters for his card game...
maybe he could use VF characters in the future.

 

for me, i dont really like difficult inputs because it feels like a rythm action game... it's the reason why i stopped playing SF4 for a while.

gets abit fustrating, sometimes your fingers are way ahead of your inputs, and feels like you are restricted to preform what your brain wants to do.

but i guess for others, thats the whole reason why they play the game in the first place. it's like a reward factor.

i suppose VF measures difficulty depending on which character you want to choose. i suppose thats fair enough.