israeli-lebenon. what a mess..........

surprised no one has got to discussing this yet.

this is one crime to add to the history books.

like in real life, nothing is ever black or white.
but it sure is bloody.

how does everyone feel about the situation?

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

It's about time that Israel fought back and meant it when they said "We will show no mercy"... but, they are definitely going about it the wrong way, killing innocent people is terrorist tactics. If Israel won and took over that would be great but unfortunately they're not fighting a legitimate military campaign so this will never end even if they do take over Lebanon. Just like with any other terrorist group, Israel's enemies will never quit, they're just going to keep coming and multiplying.

It's going to be an endless battle and not to get Biblical but the Bible states that the destruction of Israel is one of the signs of the end of times.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

A Muslin cought by anyone in the world is pretty much viewed as a terrorist.

An Isrealy soldier cought in territory he doesn't belong is a hostage.

That's basically what the news has you to beleive. Gotta love duel standards.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
tonyfamilia said:


It's going to be an endless battle and not to get Biblical but the Bible states that the destruction of Israel is one of the signs of the end of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

you gotta remember the time of which the bible refers to. israel was the center of the biblical world in a power sense, not in a literal geographical sense.
so in a way the US could be seen as Israel, but hey the bible and other scriptures are always so open that nothing can ever be properly deduced.

as a fellow muslim, man i gotta say how appalled the apparent carpet bombing of lebanon is.

the kidnapping of the two soldiers was a military affair. it wasnt an attack on civilians so i fail to see why alot of lebanon is under heat. couldnt a 'precision attack' have been more appropiate?

oh btw does anyone know if hisbollah started firing rockets in israel before or after the kidnapping? i was in america for the last 2-3 weeks and unbiased news there is golddust.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

I think the "kidnaping" was in retaliation of the Israeli bombs dropped on a palestine beach.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

Really though that's just another drop in the ocean.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

It's an internet site, take it wait a grain of salt. It is interesting though.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

It is a mess and there's no end of movies on youtube that want to educate you on the situation.

I stumbled across one and then found two others. Some might find them interesting, useless, validating or a point to rally against. I thought I would provide links in any case.

"A concealed Truth"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JDVsy4Fh5I&search=a%20concealed%20truth

"What the world should know"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHA2NLzrcYE

"Israel/Palestine"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6myF6ZlEpo4&mode=related&search=

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

ALL of those munitions were launched by Palistinians.

 

Check this cover

[image]http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/johndale/2006/07/21/indy-ceasefire.jpg?maxWidth=500[/image]

click here to see the cover

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
tonyfamilia said:

It's about time that Israel fought back and meant it when they said "We will show no mercy"... but, they are definitely going about it the wrong way, killing innocent people is terrorist tactics. If Israel won and took over that would be great but unfortunately they're not fighting a legitimate military campaign so this will never end even if they do take over Lebanon. Just like with any other terrorist group, Israel's enemies will never quit, they're just going to keep coming and multiplying.

It's going to be an endless battle and not to get Biblical but the Bible states that the destruction of Israel is one of the signs of the end of times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Israel has never shown mercy.

Check BTselem to verify whats going on in the occupied teritories.
Or if you dont trust an Israeli peace organisation you could go and check the official Israeli and IDF death counts on both sides.
Palestine civilians killed by Israel between 2000 and 2005: Over 3200
Israeli civilians killed by Palestines just over 400
Of the 3200+ Palestine civilians killed by Israeli's around 800 of em have been underage.
Google for the figures yerself, they are the OFFICIAL Israeli figures.

Israel has never shown mercy, and that is one of the problems the region faces.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

ALL of those munitions were launched by Palistinians.

[/ QUOTE ]

What munitions, what are you talking about?

Also Libanon is Hezbollah, not Hamas yet people seem to be seeing it as one Palestine organisation.
Which couldnt be further from the truth, Hezbollah and hamas dont even like eachother, let alone be one and the same.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:

[ QUOTE ]
Fishie said:

Also Libanon is Hezbollah,

[/ QUOTE ]

Fishie, I understand the point you were trying to make, Hezbollah != Hamas, but I don't like seeing nor agree with the statement "Lebanon is Hezbollah".

Israel's gross overreaction, all in the name of a pre-emptive strike against terrorism, has resulted in the deaths of innocent people -- people who also want Hezbollah expelled from their country.

Hezbollah is a Shiite miltia group backed by Syria and Iran, and Syria has stuck it's nose into Lebanese affairs for far too long and continues to do so (e.g. the assassination of Rafiq Hariri last year). Lebanon has had a long troubled past and was only beginning to emerge again economically, living up to it's once lost reputation of the "Paris of the middle east." But in one fell swoop, Israel has set Lebanon back another 20 years. For every Israeli killed by random Hezbollah fire, Israeli shells, bombs and "precision" guided missles have killed 20 innocent Lebanese. The US has given Israel full support and even military backing whilst the rest of the world just sits idle. It's just fucked up.

If I sound worked up over this it's because I am. As a Lebanese Christian, this deeply troubles my soul. I have family and friends who are still stuck in Lebanon, unable to leave for various reasons, and the situation being as unstable as it is affords me no rest each night as I call around for updates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quote:but I don't like seeing nor agree with the statement "Lebanon is Hezbollah".


I am sorry, that was not the statement I was trying to make.
Typed too fast, what I meant was that Hezbollah is in Libanon and has absolutely nothing to do with the groups in the Palestine ocupied teritories.

I hope everyone you know is safe and we can put this black page behind us fast.
Every innocent person killed anywhere in the world at anytime is one too many.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Heart and thoughts go out to you and yours, Myke.

GE

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Fishie said:

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

ALL of those munitions were launched by Palistinians.

[/ QUOTE ]

What munitions, what are you talking about?

Also Libanon is Hezbollah, not Hamas yet people seem to be seeing it as one Palestine organisation.
Which couldnt be further from the truth, Hezbollah and hamas dont even like eachother, let alone be one and the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing that Arab countries hate more than each other is Israel. Period.

I think Israel needed to make a statement. What the hell were they supposed to do? Just let Hezbolla continue with impunity launching strikes on ONLY civilian targets? Lets keep in mind that these cowards only really attack civilian targets. THey don't have the balls to go after the military targets. Israel should continue to be held hostage and trade terrorists for people they kidnap? No. I am sorry. The lebanese goverment, as sad as it is; simply does not have the military backing to stand up to Hezbollah, especially since Hezbollah recieves funding from Syria and Iran.
I think an initial air strike was needed, but I am very uncomfortable with an extended air campaign. What Israel needs to do is send in the ground troops and go area by area and wipe out hezbollah as much as possible, then with the aid of the U.N and/or nato, create a buffer zone that will not enable Hezbollah to fire rockets into Hiafa and surrounding areas.

I feel for the civilians on both sides. Human life is human life. I don't want to read about Lebanese civilians being killed by being caught in the cross fire anymore than I want to hear about Israelie's being killed by rockets lobbed at them from across the boarder....

2 other thoughts
If rebell groups in Mexico started to fire rockets into California and texas, what do you think america would do, shake its head and turn away?
If your a group that has stated your purpose is the destruction of another country and you attack them, don't you think that group should be held responsible for starting the war? If Hezbollah really cared about the Lebanese people, they would not store their weapons amongst the civilian population. That is truly callous.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

"If rebell groups in Mexico started to fire rockets into California and texas, what do you think america would do, shake its head and turn away? "

Actually, let me ask you the question like this.

What if...
Canada decided it want to grab land from the US and the US goverment is too much in shambles to do anything. So a "rebel" group of Americans form there own little group to fight off Canada. Would you call the Americans terrorists in this case?

What if Canada eventually decides it's not worth it and pulls out. The americans keep all the land, but millions are dead. You were able to keep you family's land, that is now ravaged and useless, and your family is no longer alive? Are you still the terrorist?

What if Canadian soldiers still wander around in the US. Is capturing them and act of terrorism?

It's murky waters.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

"What Israel needs to do is send in the ground troops and go area by area and wipe out hezbollah as much as possible, then with the aid of the U.N and/or nato, create a buffer zone that will not enable Hezbollah to fire rockets into Hiafa and surrounding areas. "

{New commander on duty}

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:

Lebanon has had a long troubled past and was only beginning to emerge again economically, living up to it's once lost reputation of the "Paris of the middle east." But in one fell swoop, Israel has set Lebanon back another 20 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what keeps happening. That is what Israel does. How do you keep a nation down, by corrupting its economy.

Shadowdean: Please be more logical in your response. And as to your question about how come Lebanon does not respond with military might is because as people have said the US is backing them financially, militarily, and politically. Now how fair of a fight is that, having a powerful nations arsenal at your disposal versus a third world nation with limited capabilities.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

[ QUOTE ]
Fishie said:

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

ALL of those munitions were launched by Palistinians.

[/ QUOTE ]

What munitions, what are you talking about?

Also Libanon is Hezbollah, not Hamas yet people seem to be seeing it as one Palestine organisation.
Which couldnt be further from the truth, Hezbollah and hamas dont even like eachother, let alone be one and the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing that Arab countries hate more than each other is Israel. Period.

I think Israel needed to make a statement. What the hell were they supposed to do? Just let Hezbolla continue with impunity launching strikes on ONLY civilian targets? Lets keep in mind that these cowards only really attack civilian targets. THey don't have the balls to go after the military targets. Israel should continue to be held hostage and trade terrorists for people they kidnap? No. I am sorry. The lebanese goverment, as sad as it is; simply does not have the military backing to stand up to Hezbollah, especially since Hezbollah recieves funding from Syria and Iran.
I think an initial air strike was needed, but I am very uncomfortable with an extended air campaign. What Israel needs to do is send in the ground troops and go area by area and wipe out hezbollah as much as possible, then with the aid of the U.N and/or nato, create a buffer zone that will not enable Hezbollah to fire rockets into Hiafa and surrounding areas.

I feel for the civilians on both sides. Human life is human life. I don't want to read about Lebanese civilians being killed by being caught in the cross fire anymore than I want to hear about Israelie's being killed by rockets lobbed at them from across the boarder....

2 other thoughts
If rebell groups in Mexico started to fire rockets into California and texas, what do you think america would do, shake its head and turn away?
If your a group that has stated your purpose is the destruction of another country and you attack them, don't you think that group should be held responsible for starting the war? If Hezbollah really cared about the Lebanese people, they would not store their weapons amongst the civilian population. That is truly callous.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF

Tell me did they kidnap 2 CIVILIANS or 2 SOLDIERS.

You sir are a retard and bend so far over with a dick so far up your ass its coming out of your mouth and apparently you love the taste of it on your tongue.
A dozen threads with me stating FACTS and you shouting propaganda, a dozen threads with me quoting facts and you attacking me personally.
I am done with you here, you are NOT worth my time.
Enjoy your life living in la la black and white land.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

[ QUOTE ]
Fishie said:

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

ALL of those munitions were launched by Palistinians.

[/ QUOTE ]

What munitions, what are you talking about?

Also Libanon is Hezbollah, not Hamas yet people seem to be seeing it as one Palestine organisation.
Which couldnt be further from the truth, Hezbollah and hamas dont even like eachother, let alone be one and the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing that Arab countries hate more than each other is Israel. Period.

I think Israel needed to make a statement. What the hell were they supposed to do? Just let Hezbolla continue with impunity launching strikes on ONLY civilian targets? Lets keep in mind that these cowards only really attack civilian targets. THey don't have the balls to go after the military targets. Israel should continue to be held hostage and trade terrorists for people they kidnap? No. I am sorry. The lebanese goverment, as sad as it is; simply does not have the military backing to stand up to Hezbollah, especially since Hezbollah recieves funding from Syria and Iran.
I think an initial air strike was needed, but I am very uncomfortable with an extended air campaign. What Israel needs to do is send in the ground troops and go area by area and wipe out hezbollah as much as possible, then with the aid of the U.N and/or nato, create a buffer zone that will not enable Hezbollah to fire rockets into Hiafa and surrounding areas.

I feel for the civilians on both sides. Human life is human life. I don't want to read about Lebanese civilians being killed by being caught in the cross fire anymore than I want to hear about Israelie's being killed by rockets lobbed at them from across the boarder....

2 other thoughts
If rebell groups in Mexico started to fire rockets into California and texas, what do you think america would do, shake its head and turn away?
If your a group that has stated your purpose is the destruction of another country and you attack them, don't you think that group should be held responsible for starting the war? If Hezbollah really cared about the Lebanese people, they would not store their weapons amongst the civilian population. That is truly callous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Soldiers are MILITARY TARGETS, not civilian targets. Attacking a military target is, by definition, NOT terrorism.

This is not murky waters; this is crystal clear; this is extremely easy to see.

Israel is a Jewish spot in a sea Arab people. How did they get there? Did the naturally grow there? Of course not everybody knows that they forced their way in and use force to stay there?

Israel wanted this fight because Israel needed this fight. That's right Israel NEEDS this fight. The single greatest threat to Israel is a 30-year period of peace and prosperity in the middle east.

Think about about the geographical and demographic facts about that region.

1. They (Israelis) are the only non-Arabs in the region.
2. They don't have a friend on either border.
3. All of its neighbors are related.
4. Israel itself is built on land that belongs to its neighbors' relatives.

If a 30-year long period of peace and prosperity persists in that region, all of Israels neighbors will grow strong. They will build their infrastructures. They will learn better science and technology. Most likely one of them will catch up with the modern world in terms of technological prowess. All of them will modernized their army. Several of them will build navies. In other words peace and prosperity will make them all strong.

But at the end of that 30-year peace, Israel will still be the only non-Arabs in the region. And their country will still be located on land they belongs to Arabs. But after 30-years of prosperity those Arab countries will have significantly stronger military forces. So much so that Israel may not be be able to win.

Now, at this point in time, Israel is strong and the surrounding Arab countries are weak. If Israel fights now they can win relatively easily. So they fight now. Israel needs to keep the surrounding countries weak. Israel will be heavy-handed and do things to depress the population, disrupt their commerce and political processes, destoy their infrastructure, and hamper their military development. From time to time they will engage in a full scale military assault. All for the purpose of keeping their neighbors weak.

This so-called reason for the latest attack is an excuse. How many Hezbollah and Hamas people do Israel have captured? Yet, when two of their soldiers are captured they launch full scale war without negotiation. Please /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

They can save that bull for the idiots.

The sad thing is that they are actually making factions like Hezbollah and Hamas stronger. The people have no choice but to turn to factions like this. Israel is running roughshod over their country and these groups are the only ones who are attempting to fight back.

What Israel should to is choose one of their neighboring countries and proclaim them to be allies and consistently give it aid, even though they will try to turn it down.

P.S.

Myke, I hope that you family makes through this thing without loss of life or health.

 

Re: israeli-lebanon. what a mess..........

Fishie: Fuck off and grow up. Come back if you have something to actually contribute besides ultra left wing garbage.
Hezbolla has a long history of pulling this crap and before Israel traded prisoners for hostages. They simply are not going to do that anymore. Tough shit for hezbolla. Its their fault. If they left Israel alone Israel would not of engaged them. I punch you in the face then complain when you beat me up...who ise the douche bag?
In 30 years, the entire arsenal of the arab nations has barely advanced, relying on buying outdated equipment from Russia and france, whereas Israel's technological prowess has grown signicantly...since your using a might makes right eventually argument, I'll say that they have earned their right.
And lets get this straight, Jews were there first before there was any such thing as a Musliem. The creation of Israel was a mess, but then again was the creation of every other state in the world.


And please, this argument that Israel needs this war? They need this war like a luchencup (hole in the head). ALL the countries there would benefit if they could get along and have normal relations. Extended war and hostilities has NEVER benefited any nation.