Isreal corners the market on concrete!

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1775.shtml

Dat's big!

 

If it prevents innocents from dying and is the only way of obtaining peace, then so be it. Sad though.

 

[ QUOTE ]
ONISTOMPA said:

If it prevents innocents from dying and is the only way of obtaining peace, then so be it. Sad though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup and it steals more land and roads from the palestines, hightens their suffering and further serves as collective punishment of the entire palestine population, meanwhile look at the staistics about how manny innocent people fall on each side.
Its grim reading material, just do a search for the Israeli figures and be shocked by what even the israeli government gives as death tolls.

 

The main problem is this - both sides are basically like 3rd graders and if this wall can somehow reduce the death toll, than I am all for it. This being said, historically walls have never done anything for any nation.
BTW, that article was very, very clearly biased, so take from it what you will.

 

That's true but I don't really see any other solution. Peace talks have been going on for years and there hasn't been any signs of progress.

 

Their fight will only end when one side no longer exists.

 

Daaamn don't say that ! I think there's still hope, but both current governments have to go in order for any kind of peace.

Do you think that things would be different today had Clinton stayed in power for another 8 years ?

 

Clinton was a good entertainer of foreign governments, but had lousy foreign policy. Bush Jr. is just lousy, Period. I don't think we've had a decent president with admirable foreign policy since Carter. Reagan and Clinton had charisma, Bush Sr. was most well-known for either attacking or puking on enemies, and Jr has no clue. The past 20ish years have been moderate in foreign policy at best.

Until Isreal gives back the appropriate land to the Palestinians there will be no settlement. Neither side wants a compromise and the religious sides of the coin feel that the "Holy Land" belongs to them. It's pretty fucking bad that they cannot follow the laws of their religion and not kill each other.

 

[ QUOTE ]
replicant said:

Clinton was a good entertainer of foreign governments, but had lousy foreign policy. Bush Jr. is just lousy, Period. I don't think we've had a decent president with admirable foreign policy since Carter. Reagan and Clinton had charisma, Bush Sr. was most well-known for either attacking or puking on enemies, and Jr has no clue. The past 20ish years have been moderate in foreign policy at best.

Until Isreal gives back the appropriate land to the Palestinians there will be no settlement. Neither side wants a compromise and the religious sides of the coin feel that the "Holy Land" belongs to them. It's pretty fucking bad that they cannot follow the laws of their religion and not kill each other.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, the tricky part is figuring out exactly what constitutes "appropriate."

This, of course, is a terrible tragedy that has been going on far too long. The sad truth is that there are just enough people on both sides who are happy with perpetual war. And they happen to be the ones running their countries.

The wall is a terrible idea. People need to be tearing down walls, not building new ones. Do the Arial Sharons of the world understand what's going to happen 20 years from now, because of his wretched policies? And don't get me started on Arafar.

If we could lock up the both of 'em, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts everyone's lives would improve. All this f'n killing because you admire someone who once walked there thousands of years ago. F'n idiots.

 

Building such a wall is achieving the exact opposite.
Palestinians are being robbed of part of their land presently, and some of them are being isolated.
I don't think they'll achieve peace this way.

When the wall of Berlin fell we thought we'd never see that again... well it doesn't seem the case...

 

Lets just be careful here, Palestinians is a word that came about after 48. The land, if we want to be technical, was Jordan's before they jumped on the retard wagon and fucked with Israel.

 

Couldn't we all just get along? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[ QUOTE ]
Shadowdean said:

Lets just be careful here, Palestinians is a word that came about after 48. The land, if we want to be technical, was Jordan's before they jumped on the retard wagon and fucked with Israel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh boy, and where was israel BEFORE 48?
Oh yes right, it didnt exist.
Go look at youre history, read about the incidents on Cyprus with the European Jews who entered illegaly on a ship they dubbed the Exodus, read up on the history of the region etcetera instead of spouting youre crap.

 

ummm the land of israel was promised to the jews by god himself thousands of years ago. /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

Well, I saw God in a bowl of Cocoa Puffs on Monday, and he promised me the island of Maui, my own Japanese arcade chain entirely devoted to VF4E and Cave shooters, and leadership over the new Amusement Vision.

I like the Big Guy as much as anyone, but something tells me I heard God wrong, like so many of the Christian Fundamentalists that support this flawed agenda.

 

[ QUOTE ]
Zero-chan said:

Well, I saw God in a bowl of Cocoa Puffs on Monday, and he promised me the island of Maui, my own Japanese arcade chain entirely devoted to VF4E and Cave shooters, and leadership over the new Amusement Vision.

Something tells me I heard God wrong, like so many of the Christian Fundamentalists that support this flawed agenda.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahaha good one Zero.

Say did God say Zion had to be won with terrorist attacks against the native people(Jewish attacks at the natives to drive em out pre 1948) at a human cost thats simply mindbogeling?
What about the Zionists who believe that the promised land is an afterlife thing wich they are not entitled to at this life becouse after all the chosen people left the chosen land and thus betrayed God a second time?

Or are you just trying to be sarcastic?

 

First of all, get your history right. The Israelie government was NOT the ones who told the "palestinian" people to leave, that was ALL their buddies, who have not helped them, but moreso, backed by russia saying they would help Egypt, syria, Iran, etc fight Israel...we saw how that worked...oh yeah, before the palestinians and the romans, the Jewish people had Israel...so this is just comming full circle back to the people who ORIGINALLY had the land.
Get your religious theology right - G-D was never betrayed by the Jews for hte jews leaving...there is no writings of god being angry in the Torah, Gemorah, or Talmud. God got angry for other things, but not because Jews left Israel. The diaspora can be related to the story of babel. Which, as god had known, would happen (This is all taking a religious point of view, mind you)...just as god knew that adam and eve would eat from the tree of life - it was his intention for them to eat, otherwise he would of created them differently.
But, basic argument on entitlement - it was the Jewish people's land first, so you can call this full circle.
On mistreatment - Israel treats the palestinian people better than their arab or christian-arab neighbors.
On the Palestinians being told to flee - that was by Jordan, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Egypt. For the current divison of Israel, the 6 day war was started because of Russian envolvment. (that is a long story in of itself)...Israel made the first strike because they KNEW they were going to get attacked, so even that was not what you would call a first strike, more like self defense.

 

[ QUOTE ]
The diaspora can be related to the story of babel. Which, as god had known, would happen (This is all taking a religious point of view, mind you)...just as god knew that adam and eve would eat from the tree of life - it was his intention for them to eat, otherwise he would of created them differently.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think this could make a really neat sub-thread. I just wanted to point out that while God surely knew Adam and Eve would eat from the tree of Knowledge it doesn't automatically follow that it was his [/b]intent[/b] that they do. It should suffice to say that he gave them Free Will and therefore it was their own choice to disobey his Word.

GE

 

The old great point that God gave man the tools which to construct their own damnation. Sounds like one big fucking annoying science project to me.

 

"BUT I HAD THIS LAND FIIIIIIIIIRST" whining is pretty much a moot point - that's all stuff that happened AEONS ago, and reduces those in conflict to the mentality of a 5-year-old. What we should be concerned about is the welfare of people in where they live TODAY. I mean, we all know we sure weren't the original inhabitants of America, right? And that's not the only example. Japan was not originally inhabited by the people we know as the Japanese - it was ethnically different tribes similar to that of the Ainu minority. (Most anthropologists now believe the Japanese people originated from around the Korean peninsula, which ultra-nationalist Japanese dispute.) Horribly sad chapters in history, I know, but what is done has been done, and what we can do is make life as comfortable as possible for those who have survived the sins of our forefathers.

So, if heavily armed Native American militias suddenly started coming into cities and reclaiming land as their own, would YOU think it was right? This scenario isn't very far off from what the government of Israel is perpetrating.
(No offense to any Native Americans intended, just providing an example.)

We live in a society today which should be past all this, knowing this displacing people from their current homes and destroying their heritage (even if it doesn't date back THAT long) both breaks the heart of a people and induces anger and resentment. Sadly, greediness and memories of a past that one hasn't even experienced themselves cloud minds and hearts beyond reason and compassion.