Jacky Vs Vane: What to do?

Ive been Struggling in this matchup. I cant hit her at all. I get sabaki'd almost everytime i think I can attack and then when im not getting sabaki'd im getting hit because her moves have more range than mine(i think) So im a bit confused as to what to do here because I feel that all of my options get beat by her in some way shape or form. I try to use 46 K+G but that doesnt work as well as i would like it to and i try mixing it up but i just get sabaki'd anyway. I try my best to stay in her face but my offense sucks and my oki sucks worse. So im at a loss. Any suggestions?

 

All these views and no help -_-

 

OK here's my advice:

Play as Vanessa for a bit. Her sabakis can only work either on punches, mids or knees. So if you get sabakied all the time, you either predictable or you played Erdraug lol.

Regarding range, Vanessa best range moves are 3K and 66K. both are standard moves, 3K is the same 3K as everybody else and 66K is a full cicular mid, so watch out.

The only thing I can think of is that lots of Jacky play hit-and-run chicken shit Jacky online, so Vanessa is the perfect character to out-turtle Jacky.

 

Don't be scared to attack. Learn the difference between OS and DS. Don't be afraid to take away strengths from her. For example /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif can easily change your opponent mindset about things for a little while. don't abuse 2p cause you can be punish bad for it. As a jacky player you spacing should be top notch or you should strive to perfect it.

 

The only sabaki that Vanessa can really spam is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif which as most knows sabakis all lows and ducks under all highs (plus tech guards special mids), after that the most commonly used sabaki Vans use is /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif which works quite good against Jackys that do the usually simple but effective /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif poking. The solution is to as a start utilize moves that will grant you good dmg and not be sabakiable with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. Probably the best move for Jacky to use: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Vanessa is the only character where Jacky can do /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as a combo regardless of foot position, granting very good damage. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is also good but a bit more risky (not so much against DS Vanessa though if your throw escapes are in order).

She can sabaki knees and midkicks with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif, but most Vans including me are more hesitant to use this move (and if you watch high lvl japanese Vanessa players against other top players they're very hesitant to use any sabaki that much except for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif ).

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif are both all high too, if a Vanessa uses them too much against you, bait them, duck, punish. Don't always go for attack/throw when you have advantage, sometimes just do nothing or use spacing or just do something different. Try to make the opponent unsure of himself.

 

Well with regard to my particular Vanessa you're falling for the trap. With my Vanessa I want to shut down my opponent and make them annoyed by always making it hard for them to do something. I like to take note of when people generally like to use certain attacks and the many different ways I have to beat that situation. Also knowing when to be agressive and when to be defensive. This is all vague right now I know, sorry.

I realized after a while that you wanted to attack a lot more as time wore on(probably out of frustration), so I stuck to OS and used /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to my hearts content, and for every low punch you tried to sneak in you ate 70 pts for your trouble. You've got to recognize those stances. If you see offensive beware of Abare style, and as Jeneric said, mix up your mid offensive between knees, punches and don't be afraid to space from time to time.

What I mean by space is your options were limited because I knew in a close range exchange you would backdash or boxstep away, or even OM. So I know that you're either going to try and block(possibly DM), or attack for the most part. I also know that because you're going to remain static, when I step away I'll be pretty safe for the most part. Then when you happen to attack I can punish your whiff. You can do it, but you have to know the reasons each of your moves are getting beat.

 

I tend to fall into traps in general vs all characters because im dumb as hell lol.

Upon my many weakness as a player Spacing is my weakest point. I have no defense, crappy okizeme and a shitty offense. Spacing is my worst problem of them all. Try but i tend to get nailed so i just say fuck it half the time. Very frustrating

 

Lol c'mon MAtteo i'm not THAT sabaki happy!

Chibiaya, although i must admit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif against a moral Jacky like you is particularly rewarding /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif i did notice you make good use of jacky's mid crescent. That's a sound strategy because, as Jeneric pointed out, DS vane's punishment is lacking if you can input some throw escapes. Of course, as chefboy pointed out, you have to learn to recognise when she switches stances because what her OS lacks in sabaki she makes up in punishment.

Anyway, alternating between various attacks in your disposal and not sticking to the tried-and-true recipe of "elbow poke, knee launcher" is bound to work. Try going for more /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif strings or maybe the odd /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif.

Oh, and FFS more beat knuckle my good chap, more beat knuckle and evade attack!

 

What do you mean Moral?

 

Well, moral kinda means playing by the book. When you do a -12 move you don't followup with another launcher, do you? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif And when you have a light advantage you tend to favor ye olde elbow. Those are supposed to be good VF habits but sometimes you have to take some risks, you know? If you don't feel adventurous enough to do launchers from light advantage situations like Jeneric suggested, that's fine, but replacing half your /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif definetly wouldn't hurt against vanessa.

 

I tend to fail when doing stuff like that so i stray away from it... I guess I could learn to do it -_-

 

Yeah you have to work on your spacing and Defense my friend. Jacky is Very good poke character that has good strength.Most of the time he can be used as a in and outsyle char because he can fight from a distance and up close.keep in mind Van's/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is a very big deal if you keep trying to fight it by not being moral. back off a bit and trust your D and Yomi./forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif on a teching by Vanessa is a good choice against sabaki's on wake up.

 

After just playing against you, I have a few suggestions.

First off, I think you're too abare in a lot of situations. Thats something that Vanessa is an expert at beating. Vane has quite a few moves that, while not punishable, will leave her at disadvantage on block. If you just blocked at disadvantage once in a while, you'd be able to create more opportunities for yourself to get going.

Second, I think you're using Jacky's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif as an evasive tactic too much. It is a very good move, but if your opponent can see it coming its utterly punishable (in one way or another). I would try using it more sparingly.

And finally, I had noticed you spoke of "spacing" earlier in this thread. I think your general spacing is actually pretty good, but keep in mind that theres a difference between spacing and just straight running away. Backdashing once to make a move whiff, thats good spacing. Backdashing 3 times and trying to come back in with a strong move.... well I wouldn't recommend that, especially against Vane. Jacky does much better against most characters by staying inside and applying pressure.

One last thing, I noticed you were missing a lot of combos. Try to only do combos online that you know you can pull off. Either that means taking a combo down a notch, or practicing a combo over and over until you can do it online every time.

Hope this helps! GGs btw

 

funny, all of the suggestions itt are to be less abare.

when i play against vanessa especially, i feel that i'm not being abare enough.

 

Your the only person to say that I actually Abare. Thats kinda funny in a way. Ill keep everything else in mind. Thanks and good games

 

I don't really agree, the move is safe and you can delay and hitscan the followup (even on minor counter if you know what you're doing). Sure, you can be beat by special moves that beats lows, but that's pretty much it.

 

I didnt answer to this thread at first cause I was waiting you to confess the real problems lol.

Anyways, Jacky is one of the better spacing characters. He has both excellent range, good midpokes, fast backwalk (!) like Vane, and can close the distance quickly.

Jeneric is better Jacky player these days than I am, so I let him do the talking, but I cant imagine Jacky having many Vanessa-specific problems really. (Apart from maybe attacking into /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif)

Jacky and Vanessa are actually pretty similar characters.

ps. Jacky is also one of the characters you need good 'moral' defense with. So work on that.

pps. Jackys low backfist is not a bad move.

 

I want to be clear about this: Jacky's 1P is a good move. But any good move used too much can become bad for you. For instance, if I notice a pattern to the low backfist, it becomes easier to beat out by doing a faster mid attack with good range, ie Vanessas 3K. That causes a stagger and starts a whole new flow chart.

I think a lot of us try to use attacks that tech crouch to keep our offense going or to start a new flow, but overusing it can lead to some hefty punishment.

Thats all I'm trying to say about it.

 

Jacky's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is sweet until Leg Bomber connects - he seems to float better than all the other characters off that move, last time i was toying around in the dojo DS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and OS /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif worked for me from both foot stances /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif