Kage: Final Tuned

To quickly add, you can go into BT Jumonji from by holding the . It's pretty good in that sense.

Also, the upper will not knock down on mC, but the long chop will.

A2 is clearly better than A1. B1 and B2 are about the same in terms of overall utility, depending on your playing style.

 

wats up
the new TFT combo you've mentioned : , , +, also works on Lau and down in my experience.

also, P+K from BK jumonji can be held down to get out of jumonji stance. So if P+K is counter hit from BK jumonji, then it's stomach crumble so + is possible for extra damage. If you decide not to hold it, and if it's blocked, P+K will sabaki a lot of attacks the opponent will use.

another thing, i would prefer to use the as it is, becuz i find that most people don't do anything after getting normal hit by it, so TFT goes in most of the time. of course, the A2 is good for combos, but since the standard is now changed so that the opponent doesnt fall on mC, i believe it has its uses.. after all, VF is all about the mind game.

I just wrote few thoughts after playing FT

 

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:
The B1 is sped up from it's Evo version, but doesn't have the guard break property. Instead, on guard, it forces them to crouch. Not too sure what effective followups there are after guard, if any.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to 1/60sec, it's +1 on normal guard and +3 if you go into jumonji. I'm pretty sure that JM BT + is 15 frame, so you can force a guessing game if they sit there and block.

edit: oh, and is the best followup to the MC + (knee style) just ++? Seems like that move isn't all that useful compared to spinny +. MC +, ++ is only 61 damage, and the move is TC.
Old +, +, ++ I think is better for an MC situation, since it's almost as much damage, and safe to boot.

Someone find out if you can do MC + (knee), + or something like that for more damage.

 

Myke, add Kage to your first TFT combo.

Dandy, I'm not sure what the exact combo is, but I remember a in there somewhere. Knee > > + > stomp?

 

I was messing around and I think the standard TFT combo works on Akira now:

TFT ()+

The new dragon punch combo is such a pain to do... One night I did it twice in a row (all four hits) and I havn't done it since...

-Alex

 

A2 - - - +

that combo works from open stance...
but the has to be timed so that the opponent will bounce and refloat. cra-z damage

 

sorry my bad, i meant open stance.
but thx for that info myke

 

Old chop versus upper:

A question came to mind while watching this:

Minami(Kage) vs ?(Kage)
http://www.beat-tribe.com/movie/2004bay_05_0103.wmv

I noticed in the first round, Minami does:

(VF4 chop) -> -> + -> ground kick

After seeing quite a few Kage clips, I can't help but think that the evo upper is completely useless in FT (except for the +4 hit). Am I missing something? Are you noticing any higher float with the evo upper compared to the old chop?

 

so...
his new (assume using vf4) is -6 instead of his upper's -5...
TFT is now half circle...
has lower reach...

Are those the only nerfs so far? Because he's getting a lot of new benefits for a supposedly strong char in evo.

There's gotta be something else, right?

 

[ QUOTE ]
SiYkO said:

so...
his new (assume using vf4) is -6 instead of his upper's -5...
TFT is now half circle...
has lower reach...

Are those the only nerfs so far? Because he's getting a lot of new benefits for a supposedly strong char in evo.

There's gotta be something else, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

....
what

 

FT Kage is definitely not nerfed.

They took away a few things that were abused, but gave him many things that make up for it completely.

Evo upper was weakened, but the combos after ver C chop are just as good.

TFT was changed to half-circle, but it does MORE damage in a lot of situations. TFT, Knee, +, ++ works on most MW characters, and does 82 damage. The standard +, MW combo now works on Akira.

++ is better because of ++.

Elbow has a bigger hitbox.

+ range went down, but it's still being used effectively from what I see in videos. Same with +.

He now has an effective mid from BT (JM BT +).

He now has a decently fast, good damage low from JM (hit throw).

His BT JM sweep is really untelegraphed, making it seem really fast. If they didn't change it from Evo, it's only -7 if you stay in JM, so you are free to sabaki/roll away (this may be changed, I don't know).

The fact is, he got a couple of abuseable things toned down, but he gained sooooo many mixup options it's stupid. He can use any and all of his JM/BT JM mixups on wakeup, in addition to everything he already had outside of JM.

I came to the realization like a month ago that EVERY character got stronger in FT, no matter how much or how little they needed it.

edit: except Pai lol

2nd edit: Oh, and JM run is better. I saw in a match someone blocked it, didn't struggle fast enough, and got hit by JM + for free. I forsee JM running into JM +/JM + mixups.

 

Yeah I messed up the notation, you got it right... just the standard TFT, knee, db p guard cancel, p, f+k+g...

-Alex

[ QUOTE ]
Myke said:
Yeah, Akira has been made a bit lighter now which is good. Anyway don't you mean +? And is the with or without the kick cancel? i.e. should it be ? I forgot to try it last time.


[/ QUOTE ]

 

<font color="white">Kage-Maru</font>

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<font color="white">Overview</font>

Only by a Ninja-like tricky movement, can you effectively exercise Kage's strengths. One of Kage's trademarks is the usage of his Jumonji stance. In this version, Kage is now able to attack from a back turned Jumonji, and he now has moves that will allow him to go into back turned Jumonji. It is from this new stance that you can create a complex set of attacks. Since you can counter a variety of possibilities, Kage is able to apply a large amount of pressure. With his large set of quick movements, the key to winning with Kage is to bait the opponent with your movements, and decide the match with his powerful set of throws.

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<font color="white">Change moves</font>

A1 Yougeki


Upper class speed floater attack. In the previous version you were able to float the opponent on mC, but now it requires LC or above to float. On normal hit, Kage has small advantage, on mC Kage is at a large advantage.

A2 Ganzanha


Also an upper class speed attack. This attack forces crouch on normal hit, and gives Kage small advantage. On hits more than mC you can float your opponent. It is important to remember, however, that the follow up combo is dependent on each opponent. Although Kage is at disadvantage on guard, the move is uncounterable.

B1 Uratsumujigeri


This move is a half circular special high that leaves Kage backturned. Although the execution is quite slow, it will give Kage advantage on guard, and also can be followed with a combo on counter hit. You can hold the button down to go into back turned jumonji, from which you can set up many kinds of offensive options.

B2 Doukudaki


On counter hit, it will cause a vital area crumple, which can be combo'ed with +. The execution is fast at elbow class speed, but it is throw counterable on block. This move should be used at a nitaku option at large advantage.

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<font color="white">New Moves and Key Changes</font>

– The motion for the elbow is changed a little, and the hit detection is now stronger. (Longer reach I think.) Moves like Akira's + can no longer go through this move, so you can use it safely.

(hold ) - The hit detection phase for the kick is now shorter, and disadvantage on block has been made greater. Holding the allows you to go into backturned jumonji.

+ - On normal hit this move now causes a head crumple. If the move is guarded, now it will cause a stagger.

+ - The execution of the first part is made shorter to upper class speed, and the command for the second part has been changed.

+ - A new string from which can be done after the first hit is guarded or on hit. If you can connect all 4 hits, it will get you a nice chunk of damage. Each hit must make contact with the opponent and inputed at that time for the next hit to execute.

+ (hold ) - You can now go into back turned jumonji after this move. Since the recovery is very large, it's meaningless to use this move outside of combos. By going into back turned jumonji, you now have more variations if the opponent TRs.

+ - This move doesn't do anything special on hit, but the recovery on guard is rather small. Since it's a two handed attack, it's useful to beat sabakis.

+ (hold +) - You can go into back turned jumonji, same things apply as +.

(Jumonji Stance) (While running) + (on hit) + - A sliding low attack that can be executed from the Jumonji run. There is a large recovery on guard, but on normal hit you can get the hit throw, so it's a large risk/reward move.

(Backturned Jumonji) - A fast high attack from backturned jumonji. It's basically the same move as from jumonji and can be followed up by the same sequence as such. The move that had the same command in the previous version is now changed to +.

(Backturned Jumonji) or - A side flip that leaves Kage face forward again. Since this move has a very high evasive property, you can use it even at disadvantaged situations to avoid linear attacks from the opponent. However, the execution of the move is rather long, so in many cases, Kage is at a disadvantage after the move.

HCB + - Command change for TFT. Since the input for the throw is now much longer, it is harder to do the throw in an instant.

+ - The new throw from the old TFT command now results in a much weaker throw with small damage. There is no reason to use this throw over the TFT if you have a choice. Furthermore, the throw escape animation is the same as the TFT.

Other Notes: On back turned jumonji, you can do a catch throw (+) or a guard crushing attack +. Kage now no longer have a low back throw as before, so you must now do something else after guarding Kage's +.

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<font color="white">Execution Frames for Key Moves</font>

12
13
14
(A1) 15
(A2) 15
+ 15
+ 15
16
+ 16
+ 17
(B2) 17
+ 18
19
+ 21
23




Source: Virtua Fighter 4 Final Tuned Master Guide