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Kokei frame stats

Discussion in 'Lau' started by KoD, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. KoD

    KoD Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    codiak
    Did some testing on the frame stats of moves that cancel into kokei, comparing kokei P, K, 4P, and 6P+K after guard, hit, or CH (where possible) against a variety of counterattacks. This is pretty basic stuff, ie will the move from kokei beat, trade with, or get beaten by the counterattack.

    I don't really feel like posting up tables of all the comparisons at the moment, but these are the resulting frame statistics:

    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif : -5 grd, +3 hit
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif : -4 grd, +2 hit, +4 CH
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif : 0 grd, +3 hit, +10 CH
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif OR /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif : 0 grd, +5 hit
    /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif : +3 grd, +6 hit

    If you've got counterexamples for any of these stats, i'd like to hear about it.
     
  2. KowtowRobinson

    KowtowRobinson Well-Known Member

    On the movelist for Lau, pk is listed as -1 on hit. Does this change with the Kokei shift?
     
  3. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    KoD's results show that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to Kokei gives +3 on hit, so, yes?
     
  4. danny13

    danny13 Well-Known Member

    U meant /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif?

    Nice work by the way.
     
  5. KoD

    KoD Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    codiak
    Yeah, sorry, meant 33pp, fixed it.

    Yeah, these are all pretty much different from non-kokei stats. Seems like PK punishment is less useless than you might otherwise think, kinda like pai / bokutai
     
  6. Happy_Friend

    Happy_Friend Well-Known Member

    My problem with kokei is that good players dodge when they see it and I am not good enough at punishing/causing failed evades. Also the best Kokei move to punish failed evades is the hit-throw and I feel that the timing on that is spotty online. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif
     
  7. KiwE

    KiwE Well-Known Member

    Nice work KoD
     
  8. KowtowRobinson

    KowtowRobinson Well-Known Member

    Mix in cancel to 0-frame throw? If their answer is to DM attack, most of those are punishable too. Still a mixup in theory, I guess.
     
  9. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Cancel throw, or cancel mid/full circular etc.
     
  10. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    Would a delayed attack work? I'm still learning with Lau but here's a few tricks I like to throw out there: Kokei-> double tap forward to make Lau look like he's going to attack-> (opp fail evades) -> attack!
    Also 4P is pretty fast, you can just throw that out there just to see their reaction and if they evade it's like them evading a standing P so you could stay on the offensive if you like/ evade/ throw/ or just continue with canned followup P's. The last P from that string can be delayed for a long time too so you can play head games with that too.

    Just a little something else to mix things up with.
     
  11. Chibitox

    Chibitox Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Good point. In fact if you apply the "frame advantage after escape formula" you'll see that if you do Kokei 4P after PK(hit) and opponent evades it will result in a +1 situation for opponent at worst.
    The same scenario with 4+P+K,P (hit) or 33PP(Hit) will result in Lau still having advantage even after the opponent escaped Kokei 4P.
     

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