Lion the "SideWinder"

After watching videos and reading forums, Lion is absolutely deadly when he has his opponent side turned.
He has so many tools/attack to put opponent in a "side turned" state.

One of my favorite side turned combos I learned from watching French tournament on Youtube is..
HCF p+k,336p+k counter hit , 46p+k, p, 43p+k, 6pp
-damage is upper 80 90s, close to 100 after a downed attack.

What other side turn moves in Lion's repertoire are you favorites?
Do you have any advice/combos that put your opponent in a side turned state and keep there?

Again I love VFC!!
You guys make newbs like me want to learn more about this game.

 

There's a lot to do with Lion when opponent is side-turned. However, I only just started working on this aspect of Lion's game--a lot of other players know a lot more about what is best to do with Lion here.

I will point out a few things I really like though:

First, remember this tidbit that a friend translated from the Final Showdown Guide:

This is how much extra frame advantage you get when an attack you do connects (Guard, Normal Hit, Major Counter) with an opponent who is side-turned. The damage in the chart is based on the base damage--the damage that move would inflict on Normal Hit.

This information has also been posted in a couple of other threads, but I think redundancy is good so I have no problems reiterating it. Though the Mook was based on a prior build of Final Showdown but this information should still be the same.

I really like 3P+K because, as I mentioned in another thread, on Side-Turn you are guaranteed a 44K combo. Which combo you do is based on your opponent's character, but this is big damage.

However, I like to use 336P+K like you mentioned where applicable, because the damage is higher but here's how I would break it down so far (and I'm still experimenting).

336P+K is suited for when the total frames of the opponent's attack (combined with the timing of your evade) leaves him open to guaranteed attacks. On Minor Counter (hitting the opponent during the recovery frames of an attack) and Major Counter 336P+K crumples a side-turned opponent. 336P+K will only push the opponent if it is a Normal Hit.

3P+K works really well when the opponent is standing (it will whiff a crouching opponent) and it works against opponents on Normal Hit as well as Major Counter and Minor Counter. 3P+K is also easier to implement, though 336P+K should be a familiar motion for more experienced Lion players.

I also like to use PKP because it seems to combo on side-turn (cannot confirm though I know this was talked about in another thread). It has worked for me though, but I have not fully explored this so I cannot say much beyond "it's working for me."

Another piece that is relevant (especially in understanding your opponent's risk of doing an evade while side-turned against you) is something that Tricky has found and posted in the Evade-Counterability thread, so I will quote it here:

I know other Lion players like Chibitox and Darksoul have much more to say about utilizing Lion's Side-Turn attack game. I am only just starting to utilize it. So I hope they will chime in with their experiences, and I hope later on I can chime in with my experiences too ^_^

 

It definitely does dude. It's been that way since Vanilla.
[/quote]

 

and what is hcf P+K?

 

Most of the side turned game options are explained in the main Lion thread, I suggest you take a look at it, it's one the most important thing to learn with lion in this version because he probably has the best side turned game of all chars and can creat the opportunities using both a low and a mid that are are circulars.

Also please try to post in the main thread, rather than creating a new topic, it will keep the Lion forum clearer, there's already too many "single move" topic imo. Or if you feel it's worth a new topic, give it a name that is more intelligible

 

meant hcf p..got too excited there

 

I remembered from awhile ago rodnutz asking me,”why don’t I throw from sideturn as a decent mixup after 41236p is hit confirmed?”

Honestly, it whiffed too often, so I left it alone.
Recently, I decided to test out opn/clsd stance and close/medium range 41236p.

My results fall into 4 ranks:
A: Works in every possible stance.
B: Works in every stance except closed stance @ medium range.
C: Works only in open stance.
F: Doesn’t work at all, wtf?!?

Results:
A Rank:
-Wolf, Jacky, Jean, Van, Jeff, Brad, Dural.

B Rank:
-Blaze, Lion, Taka, Lei, Sarah, Kage, Akira, Goh, Lau.

C Rank:
-Pai, Aoi, Shun.

F Rank:
-Eileen

 

This is trying to throw after succeful 41236p?

 

@Ares-olimpico
Yes.

 

@Ares-olimpico it's better to use the throw. It can't be broken and leads to another potential mix up. The opponent can just te any other throw.

 

This sounds like Tim's usual over-analytical gibberish he always spouts. Although throw is a good mix up is isn't a option that is sorely based on range. It's stupid. If throw was based on range then would be the best throw option.

 

B refers to the distance you started a match or starting distance in dojo.

A works for everything in regards to starting range and closest range for both open and closed stances.

C works for everything in regards to starting range and closest range, but open stance only.

 

A: correct
B: closed close ok, closed medium no, open close ok, and open medium ok.
C: open close ok, open medium ok. closed medium no, closed close no.
D: it Whiffs eileen in any situation.

It does indeed appear to push her out of range.

Knowing this really opens up lion’s side game and forces opponents into guessing.

Eileen you should switch to 6p+k which is 2 frames more.