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noob question: dealing with d+p

Discussion in 'Aoi' started by feii, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. feii

    feii Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    WEIHAO888
    hi everyone, i dunno what am i doing wrong but i seem to have problems dealing with people who spam d+p.

    with shun i can use f+k+g but aoi i can seem to find a move that can consistently punish those low punch spammers.

    so just wanna ask you guys whats you guys strategy with aoi when u meet these players.

    thanks sooo much! :)
     
  2. Pai~Chun

    Pai~Chun Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Lishao Tao GPK
    She has some of the best options in the game:

    6P - this works with most chars to beat 2P

    2P+K - time this right and it will catch any low

    64P - you need to time this in advance if you know their 2P is coming, but if it hits correctly, you'll get a nice damage auto-throw off it.

    The numbers are the joystick directions on a keyboard num-pad ;)
     
  3. feii

    feii Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    WEIHAO888
    hmm mayb because im not doing it right. hurhur! keep getting multi CHed by d+p
     
  4. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    You don't really 'beat' 2P. You should block it and use the advantage. Doing anything else is a risk that someone who knows what they're doing will want you to take.

    If you're already in an advantaged situation (you've block an attack, had your standing jab blocked, etc) Your 2P will land before your opponents assuming you both acted immediately. If you have enough advantage you can even use a fast mid for greater reward. The key is recognising when you're at advantage or disadvantage. You can turn detailed stats on in replays to see.
     
  5. mhnd87

    mhnd87 Member

    PSN:
    mhnd87
    I really hate how a 2p that hits you lets the opponent easily throw you if you react with guard or low guard. The only ways i find to avoid the throw is to crouch dash or attack from disadvantage.
     
  6. BLACKSTAR

    BLACKSTAR You'll find him on the grind Staff Member Media Manager

    PSN:
    oBLACKSTARo
    XBL:
    BLACKSTAR84i
    Low punch is high-risk/(somewhat)low reward in FS. While you can't always 'beat' low punch (you can't punish it, relying solely on counter is always a unfavorable risk, and evading it doesn't always lead to a guaranteed punish either), the idea that you should push across is to 'convince' your opponent that using low punch isn't such a good idea.

    1. Using on-block frames for your benefit:
    This is above the heads of most players that are new to FS, and even I have only started to really catch on to this. But 2P is universally -5 on block -- this means if you block a 2P, you can put your opponent into a mixup (immediately) afterward.

    In my mind, in this situation, i personally like to think that my opponent is in Nitaku('two-choice') situation. In short terms, a Nitaku is a situation where you FORCE your opponent to choose between eating a mid or a throw. This technically isn't true, because at -5 (and even moreso from crouch), your opponent can perform a 'from-crouch fuzzy guard' to beat both options. But in reality, unless you are playing an obviously good opponent (read:you're not), they aren't going to use this in a match (if they even know how to do it :p)

    Long-story short, after blocking a 2P, a good option to hit them with is elbow (6P for Aoi, dunno Shun's). It's the safest and fastest mid, and will beat alot of options that they try to do afterward (such as if they try to attack,crouch block,throw). If they get hit, then congratulations, you have +6 or +7, which means you can force ANOTHER mixup on them for free. If they block, you're safe. If they evade, it will be very difficult for them to punish you (read:they won't). By the next time you block another 2P of theirs, you have a better idea of how they will react, and you can punish them.

    2. Low crushes:
    Low crushes are attacks that are immune to opponent's low attacks, causing them to whiff, which often leads into a counter hit. Most characters have one or more low crushes. You already mentioned one of Shun's, 6+K+G. (True) Low Crushes are scary, because they are often safe, and even moreso because they can be used even in heavy frame disadvantage. Shun's 6+K+G can be used even way down in -8 disadvantage! They also usually lead into a combo for big damage, so there's a big reward for calling out your opponent's 2P with Low crushes! So in other words, if you feel your opponent likes to 2P after they block one of your moves, use a low crush to blow it up for way more damage than they would have gotten for hitting you with a 2P

    Aoi is special -- fighting against low attacks is a weakness of hers in general, and she doesn't have a true low crush (besides, what, jump kick? :p). But that's fine, because she can still block 2Ps and use the frame advantage. She also has Low reversals, another option that most characters don't have. Which leads me into.....

    3. Low reversals:
    If you get into a situation where you ABSOLUTELY 200 PERCENT KNOW YOUR OPPONENT IS GOING TO 2P YOU, then this is when using low reversals are a good option. Low reversals don't often have as big of rewards as the first two options (the damage is lower than low crush-->combo, and you normally don't get the frame advantage to go for a mixup, like blocking a 2P). But the damage you get on a correct read is immediate and guaranteed (~30 DMG for Aoi low reversal + guaranteed followup ground throw attempt/3P ground attack(I think)). Some other characters, such as Sarah have Low Parries that are high risk/high reward, but offer heavy frame advantage for guaranteed launch. Some other characters, such as Wolf, have low punch parries that can change ring position, which is great for forcing backturned stance or a ringout.


    You actually have PLENTY of options for blowing up Low punch, you just have to explore and remember them. And I GUARANTEE you those options do more than the measily 8 DMG that a successful 2P that hits you get
     
  7. Kruza

    Kruza Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Kruza
    Are you referring to people who do a few 2Ps in a row, or those who throw one out there at a time?

    At any rate, back dash > [6][6][K] combo will stop the 2P madness real quick.

    Aside from that, the info others posted in this thread (recognizing frame advantage, using elbow) is good fundamental advice to follow too.

    And regarding [6][4][P], Aoi has to be at -1 or better in order to execute the punch deflection hit-throw.

    Kruza
     
  8. feii

    feii Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    WEIHAO888
    @BLACKSTAR yes. thats one of my discovery that Aoi weakness is dealing with the low punch. but after reading thru yr post i realise actually there are viable options after blocking the low punch. i will go explore. like u said mix-up game is Aoi strong points probably i should try to force the mix-up game more. lack of a low punch crush certainly sucks but her mix-ups i hope should more than cover its lack.

    @Kruza yea.. multiple 2P is the one i that i keep getting myself into. i will try bd, [6][6][K], hmm so if i block the low punch im at +5 and i execute a [6][4][P], i will hit him if he executes another low punch?

    and also thanks everyone that i did not specificaly mention. i think all your advice are useful and i shall explore more today!

    haven been playing vf since vf4 days and now im back but im still trying to get used to the new system and the new moves of all the characters esp jacky! (super pain in the ass) doesnt help that there are many scrubs online who sometimes push my emotions to the limit. ha ha ha.

    hit me up if u guys wanna play! my psn is weihao888 i dun mind to lose i just wanna improve! hahaha ^^
     
  9. IvorB

    IvorB Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Ivor_Biguns
    I just discovered the down punch style recently in VF. My mate and I have a long running Lau vs Eileen beef and he used to overwhelm me with her fast crazy mixups. But now I just deploy the low punch whenever he gets in my face and that shuts the craziness down completely. They I open fire on him after he has lost his flow completely. It's working pretty well and, as I write this, he is yet to find a counter to this tactic. I should send him to this thread :).
     
  10. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    I second what Marly said, the "pro" way of dealing with low punch is simply to block it and utilize the advantage that opponent just handed you. Against people who spam low punch more than 1 in a row this can mean a big launch. Of course this means that you have to be able to react to a blocked low punch pretty quickly. You can try recording it on dojo and try to get between two low punches where the first was blocked. Block low punch and do a 14 frame mid like an elbow. Once you get better at reacting, you can use big launch to punish lowpunch spam.

    Then once you start to punish low punch spam, many people will do evade instead. Thats not as punishable as spam but its still punishable. (punishable with a launch if they do not dashcancel it)

    Some characters have moves that will beat low punch clean, but this is not universal. For example Sarah 8K will always beat low punch up close giving a stagger and entry to flamingo.
     
    MarlyJay likes this.
  11. feii

    feii Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    WEIHAO888
    yea i been recording the cpu to do continuous low punch and realise the window is pretty short after u block it. the key i realise is to block it first. i have been too excited previously which explains the multi CH >.<

    i feel i have level up a little bit today! ^^
     
  12. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    I can't emphasize enough, your default response should be blocking the 2P then using the advantage to apply your own offence. All of the above is trying to run before you can crawl. Remember that low punch is a universal option and the best answer is the same for every character.
     
    feii likes this.
  13. Pai~Chun

    Pai~Chun Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Lishao Tao GPK
    But what happens when the 2P hits you, sometimes even on yellow? I often find after a PPP the other guy is then 2Ping me. When you anticipate that with Aoi, you can catch it with the moves listed above. Often after the 2P hits, they are then attacking you with a mid... that's the time to try her mid reverse ;)

    Aoi can of course do this herself with her own 2P, then follow up into hit-throw 2_3PP+G, or 2_3P+KP. Just this alone is going to force plenty of online players you meet to change up their routines a bit. When they start guarding after your 2P, try a throw from crouch!
     
  14. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    If the 2P hits you then its your 'turn' to defend. If it hits you CH (yellow flash) then you're firmly in the mid/throw guessing game and attacking at this point is risky, but exactly what you should do if you think they opponent willl throw. There is nothing wrong or scary about being hit with 2P. It doesn't do that much damage and puts you on the defensive. I'd be far more worried about letting such a good common move force you into taking dangerous risks.

    Lets say we use your example of PPP. Usually if you PPP you're at DISADVANTAGE on HIT. In this instance you have no way to interrupt the 2P. Attacking at this point is viable, but you should understand that it's a massive risk. This is where recognising when you're advantage or disadvantage comes in.

    Trying to use the sabaki or 66K or even the counter is also risky. The attacks are slow and specific in what they beat. The counters? Sure if you absolutely know what the opponent is going to do. If you're not sure then the risk is unnecessary.
     
    Pai~Chun likes this.
  15. Sozos

    Sozos Pai Sucksan Content Manager Pai

    PSN:
    vfsozos87
    XBL:
    vfsozos87
    Just block it and take the advantage. thats all.
     
    MarlyJay likes this.
  16. nou

    nou Well-Known Member

    If you get hit, not Counter-Hit, you should CD Fuzzy Guard as your first form of defense, since 2P is -/+5 on hit. You can work ECDFG as well, no?
     
  17. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    It's +4 on hit. -5 on block. The difference is small, but important.
     
  18. nou

    nou Well-Known Member

    Either you are in CD Fuzzy frames, so that should be the response if you happen to get hit with it, when you are having trouble with it hitting you. like others mentioned blocking it I'd best but it's good to work on other situations as well.
     

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