Post from LA sparring :)

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by adamYUKI, Nov 22, 2001.

  1. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    adamYUKI
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    adamYUKI
    A copy of this message has been posted in LA Sparring too, but sionce it ended up like a mini Jacky Guide I though I should post it here too :)

    Playing spotlite has definately made my jacky a whole lot better, especially in understanding what I can follow up with after I stagger or crumple my opponents. The basic strategy that i've found successful in VF4 is to use jacky's canned combo's and watch your opponents response. For instance I use pp d+k, with jacky, after the d+k your opponent will usually counter attack with something like low punch, what you can do now is dodge or ECD since the dodge system is much different than from vf3 and seems much more accurate in VF4. If you dodge correctly listen for Jacky's yell, then after an ECD (hold d/f) you can enter PG and you will get Jacky's Back Breaker (65 points) grab. If you just dodge you can either elbow or hit PKG for jacky's dodge attack.

    The basic concept though is move after canned combo's and low attack, more specifically move after using Jacky's low kick.

    Something like d+k, d/b d/b or d+k (dodge) or d+k (ecd) your basically hitting and moving all the time out of a low attack.

    After low punch, try a small backdash and after you see your opponent whiff a move use BKC (this is taken straight from a japanese magazine spotlite showed me from a jacky player who has a 70% win percentage and is a 7th dan player)

    Use his lowbackfist d/b+p more often too its much more like VF2 and seems uncounterable if its blocked. Use stuff like d+k, hold down P for the mid kick fake into low backfist.

    Also use Jacky's Sway Step more effectively, mix between d+k, k and jacky's mid punch (d/f d/f+p) if jacky's mid punch hits you can do f+p, p, d+k or lowback fist sweep (d/b+p, k)

    You can play a very fancy jacky just using a few of his moves

    down kick
    Sway Step (this can be out of pk, k, hold back or b+pkg)
    pp, d+k
    pp elbow
    low backfist (includes mid kick fake)
    BKC
    low punch
    elbow
    knee
    grab

    Obviously dont abuse jacky's PP canned combo's too much but they are really good at setting up dodge opportunities or getting a stagger (pp, elbow)

    Things to avoid

    Kickflip, Just dont use it unless its in a combo, the move has very little damage now to justify using it out of the blue.

    Elbow Heelkick, did you know akira can guarantee spod you after a blocked elbow heelkick, since the spod is no longer escapable?

    Lightling kicks or lightling storm again avoid both unless they are part of a combo.

    d/f+k, k (double sidekick) Throw counterable and pretty slow

    k, k, or k, d+k once you block the first kick a better player will probably reverse or block the follow-up since its so slow. If the kick hits you should probably use k, p, d+d anyway since it will take more damage)

    k, p, d+k A good player again will block this combo almost 100% of the time. The only time I would recommend using it is after a stagger or maybe in a combo, I think Knee k, p, d+k will hit a light or mid weight after MC. Not very useful though since Jacky has better options.

    f+p, p, d+k again most good players will block the whole combo. Use only in guaranteed situations like SS, d/f d/f+p mid punch as a followup combo)

    f+p, p, k obviously dont use it since people will block the whole thing or duck the kick expecting f+p, p, d+k.

    pp, f+p, p, k and pp, f+p, p, k, back again most people will block the whole thing, I can see some use once or twice with pp, f+p, p, k back since if people expect you to sweep instead of kick the will duck the kick and once they see you whiff they will try to attack but since jacky can SS out of the kick you might cause your opponent to whiff and you can follow up with d/f d/f+P or d+k, k. This would only be a once or twice thing.

    Hmm this ended up being like a mini guide to Jacky, oh well...hope it helps :)

    CrewNYC
     
  2. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    The first steps towards a Jacky guide

    Great post Andy. The first meaty VF4 Jacky stuff I can remember seeing here. Thanks for posting it in the VF forum too--I was just about to copy and post it here myself.

    Here's some additional info from the original thread in the Jamboree forum for those of you not bothering to check out the local info section of VFDC. (Props to Myke for adding the Jamboree forum. It sorts out a good deal of the noise from the strategy and tactics talk and solves the problem of not being able to PM multible users at once when trying to get a group together to meet up for a VF jam session.)

    Andy (CrewNYC) also wrote:
    I've had some great matches with Bryan (spotlite) today, I definately learned a thing or two about the system in VF4. Bryan plays a very good/agressive akira with a really good understanding of the system. He uses stuff like Akira's Double Fisted Strike (b, f+pk) after he knocks you to the ground and you try to tech roll to the side. He also uses Akira's charge attack very well and hit me many times after I QR, just putting perfect distance between me and him so I couldn't hit him with anything. Once I tried kickfliping him out of Akira's charge attack with jacky and he got a huge major counter taking off like 40-50% after the hit.

    Now onto the Jacky specific stuff:
    Playing spotlite has definately made my jacky a whole lot better, especially in understanding what I can follow up with after I stagger or crumple my opponents. The basic strategy that i've found successful in VF4 is to use jacky's canned combo's and watch your opponents response. For instance I use pp d+k, with jacky, after the d+k your opponent will usually counter attack with something like low punch, what you can do now is dodge or ECD

    I just want to make sure I have this straight.
    ECD == evade - crouch dash == d|u, df, d, DF
    Is that right?

    <snip>

    After low punch, try a small backdash and after you see your opponent whiff a move use BKC (this is taken straight from a japanese magazine spotlite showed me from a jacky player who has a 70% win percentage and is a 7th dan player)

    Hmm...
    BKC == beat knuckle - crescent(?) == P+K, K
    That's really a heel kick after the beat knuckle... I'm not familiar with this abbreviation.
    Is BKC just a generic Beat Knuckle Combo? Please clarify.

    Something that is taking me a while to get used to is that Jacky's sweep does not knock down... As the victim of a sweep, I've been idiotically holding down and guarding after I've already been crumpled by a sweep and then eating Jacky's beat knuckle combos... at least that's what was happening when I played Andy in New York... hopefully I'll learn to react better...

    Use his lowbackfist d/b+p more often too its much more like VF2 and seems uncounterable if its blocked. Use stuff like d+k, hold down P for the mid kick fake into low backfist.

    I thought the d+K~P got you the *high* backfist. (I haven't seen this combo yet in VF4.) That's extremely nasty if Jacky has a built in fake mid attack into a uncounterable low attack. BTW, the high back fist has alway been uncounterable, too. It's only weekness is that it is a high attack.

    Also use Jacky's Sway Step more effectively, mix between d+k, k and jacky's mid punch (d/f d/f+p) if jacky's mid punch hits you can do f+p, p, d+k or lowback fist sweep (d/b+p, k)

    Please specify what kind of "hits" result in the body blow (df,df+P) combos working.
    Do they work against a crouching defender?
    Do you get a crumple down when you major counter with the body blow?
    Will they work against a standing non-defender?

    <snip>

    Obviously dont abuse jacky's PP canned combo's too much but they are really good at setting up dodge opportunities or getting a stagger (pp, elbow)

    Does anyone know if Jacky's P,P,d+K is elbow counterable? low throw counterable? SPoD counterable?

    Things to avoid

    Kickflip, Just dont use it unless its in a combo, the move has very little damage now to justify using it out of the blue.


    Repeating: DO NOT USE Jacky's kickflip unless it's in a float combo. Jacky's so busy congratulating himself when it hits that he can't stop a knowledgable opponent who tech rolls after getting hit and then has time to punish Jacky before he's done picking his nose. I've seen Mr Bungle's Kage successfully kickflip Jerky's Jacky after Kage was hit by the kickflip... very funny. Imagine Jacky kickflips Akira. Jacky thumbs his nose as Akira tech rolls and SPoD's him for twice as much damage as he just took.

    kickflip = 38 pts damage (was 60 pts in VF3tb and VF2)
    SPoD = 18+22+30 = 70 pts damage (was 80 pts in VF3tb and 100 pts in VF2)

    Different game, eh?

    <snip>

    d/f+k, k (double sidekick) Throw counterable and pretty slow

    The 2nd kick also has dodgy hit properties as far as I can tell so far. I know I've seen Jacky whiff the second kick over my crouching Sarah. Maybe it's stance dependent. Ooh, I might also be confusing Jacky's df+KK with his KK combo, too. Either way, the second kick in both combos is listed as a mid attack and I've seen it miss over my Sarah's head... I'll try to verify which is which over the next week or so... <blush>

    k, k, or k, d+k once you block the first kick a better player will probably reverse or block the follow-up since its so slow. If the kick hits you should probably use k, p, d+d anyway since it will take more damage)

    K,P,d+K is what you meant, right?

    <snip>

    Hmm this ended up being like a mini guide to Jacky, oh well...hope it helps :)

    CrewNYC


    Ayup! =)
     
  3. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    adamYUKI
    XBL:
    adamYUKI
    Re: The first steps towards a Jacky guide

    I just want to make sure I have this straight.
    ECD == evade - crouch dash == d|u, df, d, DF
    Is that right?

    ECD = Escape CD, I enter u or d then d/f d/f

    BKC = Beatknuckle combo, usually pk, p, k, though I guess pk, k could be called a beatknuckle combo too

    "Something that is taking me a while to get used to is that Jacky's sweep does not knock down... As the victim of a sweep, I've been idiotically holding down and guarding after I've already been crumpled by a sweep and then eating Jacky's beat knuckle combos... at least that's what was happening when I played Andy in New York... hopefully I'll learn to react better..."

    I've just learned that after my sweep hits you if you struggle BKC is not guaranteed, in fact if you hit low punch after you struggle it will beat almost everything I can throw at you, the best Jacky can do is either defend the low punch or try to dodge it. This goes along my constant movement strategy after low attacks. I havent tried knee yet which may go over the low punch, though I would guess low punch would eat almost all attack moves. I've also tried p, d+k and then backdash but if you struggle and hit low punch you will hit me first.

    d+k (mid motion) p gives you a mid kick fake into lowbackfist, but its very slow so you shouldn't have to worry too much about it. The only good thing is that the lowbackfist is uncounterable but the fake animation is so long you should be able to hit me out of it. If you miss time your attack I could end up getting a MC lowbackfist. If I decide not to fake though it gives me the chance to get a MC mid heelkick if you decide to attack.

    "Please specify what kind of "hits" result in the body blow (df,df+P) combos working"

    Any hit will give me the combo, it basically produces a crumple similar to akira's SDE. I saw the lowbackfist sweep combo in the VF4 blackbook and spotlite told me f+p, p, d+k was a guaranteed followup too.

    Does anyone know if Jacky's P,P,d+K is elbow counterable? low throw counterable? SPoD counterable?

    Nope its not elbow counterable, low punch counterable, low throw counterable (this I dont really know, but since it seems like you cant do any attack I would not think its low throw counterable at all) or spod counterable.

    "k, p, d+d" yup I meant k, p, d+k

    Spotlite told me an additional good piece of information, every characters spin attacks will hit people out of a side tech roll, so jacky's b, f+k+g will hit a side tech roller. Pretty good damage though jacky is at a slight disadvantage after it hits since he does that silly dance after it hits. The japanese player that made the other comments about low punch then doing a small backdash (I think according to bryan) is the same guy who made this comment about using jacky's spin kick to hit a side tech rolling opponent. He says to use it even though jacky is at a slight disadvantage after it hits.

    CrewNYC
     
  4. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    Re: The first steps towards a Jacky guide

    "Something that is taking me a while to get used to is that Jacky's sweep does not knock down... As the victim of a sweep, I've been idiotically holding down and guarding after I've already been crumpled by a sweep and then eating Jacky's beat knuckle combos... at least that's what was happening when I played Andy in New York... hopefully I'll learn to react better..."

    AFAIK, Jacky's low sweep(not shin slicer) does not produce a KD, it merely knocks down on MC. And also, a normal hit does not cause a stagger or stumble animation so there is no need to struggle to guard any follow ups.
     
  5. tragic

    tragic Well-Known Member

    SHGL

    Can anyone make it to SHGL this friday or sat? I'll be down there for the big CVS2 tournament, and I'd love to play some of you guys. The machine is going to be set to 3/5, stage select on, so it's worth the trip. Only 50 cents too! I probably wont be there will about 9/10 pm tonight, but I will be there all day tomorrow. Everyone... come visit! I'll even record the matches (I'm bringing a camera!).

    12611 beach blvd
    stanton ca 90680
    714-895-5613

    101 to 405 south. 405 to 22 east. take 22 about 3 miles to BEACH. go under the freeway, drive about 1/2 mile or less, look to left (there is golfland), make u-turn on lampson. park. come play vf4. cool!

    see ya!
     
  6. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Re: SHGL

    Good luck on the tournament, Ben!
     
  7. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Re: The first steps towards a Jacky guide

    AFAIK, Jacky's low sweep(not shin slicer) does not produce a KD, it merely knocks down on MC. And also, a normal hit does not cause a stagger or stumble animation so there is no need to struggle to guard any follow ups.

    Yeah, I agree with those observations. I'm just used to the old system of always falling down after a sweep hits. There's a split second there where I'm thinking "oh shit! I have to keep fighting here!" and by then I've lost the initiative even more because I'm reacting slower than I should be.
     
  8. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Re: SHGL

    Where's my cat!?

    Ben, you should have replied to the version of this thread in the Jamboree forum...

    Ah... you already did. Oh well. It would have been better to put the details in as a follow-up to that post anyways IMO... :)
     
  9. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    adamYUKI
    XBL:
    adamYUKI
    Re: SHGL

    If Spotlite's up for going tommorow i'd like to come play with you for sure! I'll try and contact bryan to see what he's up too, hopefully he'll want to get some playing in (since I have no other way of meeting up with you), unless you want to come over to UCLA to play some VF4 later on in the weekend, or monday night of next week.

    CrewNYC
     

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