Powerful VF5FS tech: ECDGTE

Since I already ranted about it in the shoutbox;
Everybody should be doing ECDGTE in VFS.

You're doing an ETEG but taking away the weakness against certain things. There's really no point in doing a ETEG over it since you can only do one throwescape regardless.

Record yourself doing an elbow for instance and ECD quickly into G>P+direction. If you do it well enough against say Brad you'll win over an elbow back, a throw, and be able to guard his k+g. Not only that - Brad will basically not be able to delay attack launch you with 6p+k at all and the CDG will add a second layer of protection against certain things.

 

Looks pretty legit.

I recorded Akira doing DE (blocked) into evade CD cancel TEG, and it beats that one throw you input TE for, plus instant linear attacks, plus several delayed moves.

Akira still got hit from Jacky +, + and a correctly delayed (but the timing is tight), but not any slower delayed mid or high. Instant throw is also an option since the technique can only avoid one throw at a time. The CD doesnt fuzzy anything except very much delayed throws.

So this technique is definitely very safe against delayed launchers.

Now I know why Japanese Jackys do so much +... I think 46K+G is still better though.

Theres absolutely no reason to do just ETEG over evade CD cancel TEG though.

 

During the show with L_A Akira, Ultra David and James Chen, L_A was showing evade dash cancel ~ but his inputs was clearly Evade crouch dash cancel ~

 

He wanted an edge for himself at EVO.

 

I wonder the CD here is to block slow full circular. Is it possible to do regular dash (66) into Lazy Guard TE as well?
The inputs is like 866G or 866G:4P??

 

I tried ECDGTE from -5 against Jacky K+G which is 23f and it blocked it. But like I said, it blocks most delayed attacks regardless how tight my delays were. The was basically the only delayed attack I managed to hit it with.

 

I just did an Akira vs Akira using DE into ECDGTE. At first, I was able to hit during a very short window (3-4 frames perhaps), but found out that I was too slow. I recorded again and now I'm only able to hit with his buffered correct half-circulars and . Both and are either evaded, ducked or blocked depending on the timing.

There is one weird thing though, I was able to successfully connect throws during evade which doesn't make any sense. He can always escape throws when buffered after blocking DE, but not during evade.

I think CD is there to duck fast high half-circulars and it also avoids super-delayed throws and slow full-circulars as a bonus. Akira's half-circular always seems to whiff.

 

I mentioned this yesterday to some vf guys here. I saw a video where the player was using it and it seemed reaaaly powerfull.

 

The only thing this tech seems to lose to are low sweeps. You have to decide to block low, especially if the character has a mid FC.

Something like taka's 2P+K,P evaded in the wrong direction can't be blocked low in time even with the CD.

Still very strong tech and I haven't found too many answers to it.

 

I'm thinking this'd still lose to a buffered throw(?)

 

If I understand what you're saying then no, not if the technique is done right.

 

how would the avoid a throw if its not the escape they entered?

 

That was not the question obviously if you do the wrong TE you're getting hit.

 

Good job, I only mentioned this months ago. lol Maybe in half a year, people will understand why FS is more unbalanced than even vanilla.

 

You still have the chance to throw(1/3), even though ECDGTE can do a lot of things. Strings now can also track, so after successful evade doesn't mean you are safe. More situations check comes afterward.

 

I don't see any major-major problem with it. Play each game on its own merits and ignore judging it from the perspective of something else cause then you will just be cherrypicking anyways and there is no way in hell the new game has a fair shot from the get go. Cancelling your evade into CD (or dash G) to be less vunerable to delayattacks isn't something new either. This tech is just cause of

A) You have only one shot to escape a throw (direction). Trying to listen to Shou it would seem as techs like this are the end of things but rounds in VFS are shorter than ever. People still get hit by shit in this game and it hurts when it does.

Even if this tech existed, and ETEG with multiple throwescapes still did also, people would STILL use ETEG if they had good dexterity. This isn't gamebreaking in any form it's just a strong, solid tech.

Expected value really goes down due to 2/3's of throws connecting against you if done randomly.

If we say that attacker throws half of the time and attacks half of the time we get a basis of

(2 out of 3 throws) + ( 0 out of 3 attacks) = 2/6 = 1/3 things slipping through. So 33% of the time you will loose anyways. This is of course a very simplified way of looking at things for clarity.

B) Other things (still using Brad as an example);

While K+G at 22f always will be guarded (high full circular), semicirculars will always hit. If Brad does 1p for instance (which is a great thing to bring into the discussion as it's exactly 22f also) it will always CH and give Brad a full launch if done in the right direction. 4PK can be used to the other side. ECDG can't help you it's just hard into the system. So you're still dedicated in a way.

As someone else mentioned this looses to sweeps which will get CH status period so Brad's 2k+g will get CH and knockdown. I personally think it's great that sweeps go up a bit in value as they're death on block, shit on normalhit, and slow (leading to a risk of being CH).

Other things it looses to are for instance catchthrows and delayed guardbreakers (of which there are many in VFS). A perfectly delayed 6pk will catch it also.


It's not ARE from vf4 where the attacker will get launched if he does a throwattempt or he does an attack (even delayed) like in VF4. Kage 833P says hello. There has existed more powerful tech than this in the series. Imo it's also less powerful then normal fuzzyguard (which will win against ALL throwattempts). You get an evade where one throw is broken, more often than not no attack from you guaranteed after, and you're not really vulnerable to delayattacks in doing so.


It's just that this should be the death of ETEG always as ETEG compared to ECDGTE is pointless. It's not super easy to do either so it's sort of high level. Tbh I sort of like it cause it makes ETE sort of useful again while imo otherwise GTE was sort of to to good (slowing down the game pace imo) combined with fuzzy. One complication should be that against someone who knows the game certain circulars in the game are worthless (they are in Tekken to) which I have a hard time imagining was the intent.


TL;DR:

Certain circulars are useless
ETEG is dead
Delayattacks (launchers) are pretty much dead <--- This saddens me the most as they were a big part of the fun in VF.

TEG is a new tech in VF. Techs get combined with old techs in order to try and make optionslects; it's just natural evolution.
You can for instance fuzzyguard-TEG now to take away one delayed throwattempt (which is a natural traditional counter to it) also.

 

Oh yeah before I forget. Please link me to where you have mentioned / written about ECDGTE months ago Shou. Lol.

 

Negative, CD avoids high semi-circulars. Akira's always seems to whiff.

Did anyone else experience that throws connected during evade are not escaped?

 

not sure how I feel about this. if you don't have quick options to cover both directions this makes is really hard to punish evades.

 

I checked it out for a bit, definitely a very handy technique.

However, it seemed to me that the bigger the disadvantage is, the weaker the technique gets. So it's pretty much useless to use on oki instead of a simple ETEG, as you'll never be able to block in time anyway (so slow fullcircs retain their effectiveness in that situation). It also should mean that (I haven't checked it out completely, so I'm not sure yet) while at -4 you might only be able to get a delayed 6p in before they can guard, at for example -8 bigger delayed attacks might be possible.

I'm gonna test this stuff out a bit more this week