Pride in America

Discussion in 'The Vault' started by Akebono, Apr 16, 2002.

  1. Akebono

    Akebono Well-Known Member

    I know that VF, is more of a past time for most here, and that the japanese have the best players in the World. But Thats cause they never play us or at least I dont see them attempting to play us. Now, I understand the many reasons for this, but I feel like our own country has a lot to do with this.

    I feel we need to stop imatating the Japanese players and gain our own Identity. I know what Im saying is probably harder than it sounds, but we need to get out there and show the world that the US has hardcore vf competition. But we need to start at home.

    Every city should have gatherings, and a web site if possible. I dont know how we are going to get the world to think of us as a serious contender for vf challange.
     
  2. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Give a bit of credit. Whenever I'm about to take a trip, the guy at the game center I frequent is always, "Be careful -- they're good over there". He gave me thorough warning about Korea, and even mentioned about how a Londoner came to his game center recently and smoked him into oblivion.

    And, I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but japanese VF4ers don't sit around talking about how crappy other countries players are.
     
  3. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Americans don't strive to imitate good Japanese players. They just strive to imitate good players. The fact that the good player being imitated is Japanese has NOTHING to do with it.

    If people talk like Japan is a step or two ahead of the US or other countries, that's often because they get the game a month or two before anyone else.

    .... now that the polite part is out of the way, let me just say that I'm fucking TIRED of seeing "Japan blah blah! Korea This! Korea that! America whatever! Singapore rah rah!" Bringing nationality into discussions of VF is for assholes. Patriotic pride has no place in a video game and it never should.
    It took time and effort to drive the UK trashtalk out of this board. Now we're seeing lots of BS about whether korea or japan has the player with the biggest dick. Don't drag this shit into a board that's meant for practical, useful discussion.
     
  4. LordDecay

    LordDecay Member

    Werd. I think healthy competition is good. But sometimes that leads to massive shit talking which is stupid. But I agree with CreeD, most of this shit doesnt belong on this message board.
     
  5. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Well said CreeD. Another thing to remember -- don't most people form their styles compared to who they play against? I've gone in w/ my 3-dan Shun and destroyed Emperor+ Akira's & Lei-Fei's a few times in a row. Am I better than them? No, but they've never played me, and my style is different.

    On that note, I think there *IS* some validity in saying that say JPN players styles is different than US, on the assumption that a huge portion of US players get the majority of their practice from Kumite mode on PS2 (totally different style -- extremely hard to decieve the CPU).

    Does it mean they're one is better than the other? Nope -- just different styles. I'm sure anyone could come here and hand out ass-whippings. Also, if you play one opponent enough, you'll eventually figure him out.
     
  6. imf

    imf Well-Known Member

    Look at what Jedi is saying exactly. There's no need to flame him. He's new to the game and he can't control his enthusiasm for it. He's so all about it that he wishes/wants more people from his general part of the world to share in the game and feel the same way he does.

    I don't see how you could ever possibly hope to aviod the game of one-upmanship when it comes to something competitive. It's how the world works. That's what drives all things to evolve. First you play because you love the game, then you play for a little respect from your peers, so on and so forth until you're representing whom ever or where ever you come from in some way, period. Just look at every form of competition in the world today. Show me where anything is wrong with taking some pride in where you come from, in anything that you do well. Of course some people are going to be asses about it and not understand or respect the need for their rivals to exist in order for them to even define themselves but, that's the way it is....wheee!

    Blah blah blah it's going to happen anyway, there's no avioding it.

    Jedi is right, there aren't enough people playing in this country today. Our VF scene in the US is WEAK. How many people even know who the best players are in our own country? - Looks around blankly -
     
  7. Marginal

    Marginal Well-Known Member

    An organized leauge along the lines of the Apex setup would be nice in the US. It'd motivate competition and continue to do so as rankings evolved. Everything in the US is so scattered right now.
     
  8. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Jedi is "FLAT" right, U.S. players aren't driven by competition like players from other countries are. We have to push each other unless we don't care if the U.S. is considered a "JOKE" in VF competition. We all need to take pride in our own neck of the woods, and try to spread the word positively to as many people as possible to get the ball rolling for VF in the U.S..........................NOW WHO's the BEST in the US? to be cont'd......................................

    You have to set goals, "REALISTIC ONES". Jedi_Fei is the truth. He knows what he's talking about.
     
  9. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    I don't see how you could ever possibly hope to aviod the game of one-upmanship when it comes to something competitive. It's how the world works.

    East Coast NiggaaZZ! West Coast NiggaZZ!
    ... yes, that's the way it tends to evolve. Us vs. Them. In some cases, yes, it will make someone slightly more competitive than they might otherwise be. But I feel it cheapens the game and distracts or detracts from the individual player's skill.

    People will always make a big deal out of Tiger Woods being black, but does he go around saying "African Pride!@!" or "yay for American golfers!" ? When someone asks him what he attributes his wins to, he's classy about it and names the individuals who fostered his talent. Being of a particular nationality never enters his mind.

    Michael Jordan doesn't go bragging about whatever North Carolina suburb he came from, and NBA commentators don't go around touting NC State's program as the ultimate in college basketball. How much did being from North Carolina mean to Jordan when he joined Illinois's team, or Washington's? How much does being from Croatia mean to Tony Kukoc? Why doesn't Detlef Shrempf brag on German basketball?
    ----

    anyway, the analogy is getting lame.
    The state of American VF is sad, yes I agree. But the solution isn't to say "let's crush them japs!" in the hopes that the average slackwitted, placid US gamer will get competitive fire in his belly. You can't take a <font color=red>dumb</font color=red> <font color=blue>american</font color=blue> gamer and hope that making him more *american* will make increase his interest and skill level. The solution isn't to make him more <font color=blue>american</font color=blue>, it's to make him less <font color=red>dumb</font color=red>.
     
  10. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    I just can't agree with some of the things you say Creed, sorry. Oh and Tiger Woods is Half black, Half Oriental. =)

    Seeing as how US is the worlds Haven for GOLF and also the Worlds Haven for College Basketball,..........................................I don't see your point. sorry.
     
  11. imf

    imf Well-Known Member

    Who do they play for when the Olympics roll around?

    When/where did Jedi say any of that in his post? I don't think that's what he meant.
     
  12. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Laff, ok, whatever. If international competition is the secret behind getting good at VF, how did the japanese get to the point they're at? Were they determined to make japan better than all the other countries that would be getting VF? Even though those countries would be getting it months later, and would have 1/100th as much interest in playing it?

    ...
    nationality has NOTHING to do with why people are good at VF. Three things make you good at VF: natural talent, work ethic, and level of competition. That's it. Japan has more competition, but there's nothing wrong with the natural talent level of american gamers. The work ethic is a problem.

    If you want to focus on making americans better VFers, you're going about it in a completely fucked up way. I hate to use a cheap and melodramatic argument, but marginal asked Show me where anything is wrong with taking some pride in where you come from... well, how about the wonderful, friendly, competitive little wars in the middle east? Even if a few halfassed "go america" posts managed to have some impact on the typical lazy american gamer, it will still result in a 0% increase in skill and a 1000% increase in Alucard Syndrome - "those damn arrogant japs think they're something special, but they're not."

    Encourage people to play VF for the things that make it enjoyable, not for the purpose of crushing people of other nationalities in the spirit of 'friendly competition'.
     
  13. Bedwettah

    Bedwettah Active Member

    I think some country pride is inevitable in worldwide competition. Look at soccer, loads of naitonalism at those games. Also I'm not sure basketball is devoid of this either. Chuck Daly took a lot of crap by saying in a few years up to half of the nba elite will be non-american. Look at how they do the all-star game in the nhl etc etc.
     
  14. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    When a US hockey or basketball player defects to the other national teams for one game, are they doing it for their country? I don't think jordan plays for the US team because he has any real interest in making the USA the best at something. He's playing because he's interesting in making himself the best in something, and the nationality-focused olympics are just one more means to that end.

    You make it sound like the canadian olympic hockey player defects to canada just for the sake of Canada, nothing to do with his own personal goals... ok, sure - but where does he go after the olympics are over? Right back to the American team. If he really gave a fuck about being Canadian, he'd stay there and never look back.

    And this addresses dumb_blonde's point as well - the USA may own golf and college B-ball, but we don't have a lockout on hockey, do we?
     
  15. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    I think some country pride is inevitable in worldwide competition. Look at soccer, loads of naitonalism at those games.

    I didn't say nationalism doesn't happen, only that it shouldn't. It's inevitable that when they divide up teams by country, people will root for one country... but what they're really rooting for is the team, for individual players even. Not because they love their own country so deeply. Anyway, speaking of soccer, look at the reputation of English soccer fans. I wonder if some of them carve a notch in their belt for everyone they've trampled or beaten to death.
     
  16. Marginal

    Marginal Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    If you want to focus on making americans better VFers, you're going about it in a completely fucked up way. I hate to use a cheap and melodramatic argument, but marginal asked Show me where anything is wrong with taking some pride in where you come from...

    <hr></blockquote>There is more than one Marginal? Just wondering since. I've never said anything of the sort.

    Personally I think nationalstic leanings are retarded...
     
  17. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    AGHHH I SUCK! my apologies. Bedwettah said that. My fingers are outrunning my brain.

    You're the dude who was gonna eat a CD, right? /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif
     
  18. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Alright I almost agreed with you entirely until your third paragraph then you lost it. Not once did ANY of us say anything about "NATURAL TALENT" we were talking about competition. And now I'm going to FULLY disagree with you in that "THE OLYMPICS" the ones that happen every "FOUR" years are the greatest thing in the history of mankind. Learn from the Olympic Spirit. VF is the same way, I think you have it all wrong. I feel that there is the same spirit and emotion in VF for those that are truly serious about the game that there is in the olympics. And I think that is just great. For those that aren't serious and have nothing at all to say other than how great Sarah's Tits are "Fuckem" excuse my french, the serious know to ignore these idiots. Jedi along with all the other FL. VFers are jacked about really forging ahead to put the U.S. on the VF scale with the rest of the world. And I think I'm in good position to know how to make Americans better VFers, Look at our Scene here, I'm busy all the time organizing gatherings and time off for local tournies. The guys here are great, hopefully we can be a sort of model for other cities to follow. Hope you guys have some luck with your VF endeavors. later.
     
  19. imf

    imf Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    If you want to focus on making americans better VFers, you're going about it in a completely fucked up way. I hate to use a cheap and melodramatic argument, but marginal asked Show me where anything is wrong with taking some pride in where you come from...

    <hr></blockquote>

    Didn't I ask that?

    Anyway man, you're making this more entertaining everytime you post. I hope you're having fun. I also look forward to playing with you one day.

    If we ever make Blonde-one T-shirts would you like one?
     
  20. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    if you ever make blonde_one tee shirts, make sure his face is on them somewhere.
     

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