The ground game

Discussion in 'The Vault' started by ice-9, Feb 19, 2001.

  1. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    With all this talk about VF4 I thought I'd throw a little something about VF3tb that I've been thinking about.

    Basically, in TB the ground game has really evolved in complexity. You have the usual high/low rising kick okizeme game, you can hit opponents out of a forward roll (and sometimes backwards roll), you can risk a pounce even if it's not guaranteed, or you can attempt uramawari if they roll sideways.

    A great example of this guessing game is Sarah's b+P+G throw. After b+P+G several things can happen which you as Sarah can take advantage of:

    - The opponent is not going to struggle or isn't going to struggle much. Pounce.

    - The opponent does a quick standing up. Pounce or do a little dash pounce to make sure you don't miss.

    - The opponent rolls forward. Take your pick: kickflip, sweep, elbow, etc. Even a pounce will still hit an opponent rolling forward.

    - The opponent rolls to the side. Dash in an attempt uramawari.

    - The opponent rolls backwards. There's nothing much to do here except to follow the opponent and force okizeme.

    As you can see, if you can correctly predict what the opponent tries to do you can punish him for it. Pouncing--even in non-guaranteed situations--is sometimes necessary because then you will force the opponent to try rolling sideways, in which you can then go for an ura.

    There are many other moves and throws that lend perfectly to this guessing game.

    ice-9
     
  2. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Thanks for bringing this up, Ice/images/icons/smile.gif

    Not that I could add anything to it, but it's SOOOOO NICE to see applicable, constructive, and gameplay related topics and posts these days. I also liked reading what Andy and Jan had to say about Pai. Sure, maybe a lot of people already know some of that stuff, but it's a lot of stuff I hadn't heard, even in collections of posts and what not so I appreciate it fully.

    I can only hope that others follow suit in posting some gameplay related stuff. It's much better than a lot of bickering by itself.

    Thanks Jan, thanks Andy, thanks Ice for the interesting reads (for me anyways) this week.

    -Chanchai
     
  3. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    except...it's totally fucking pointless.
     
  4. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    sure, for you. But the same can be said about your posts, Rich. At least I'm enjoying the posts. Speak for yourself, and be happy if that's all you got to look forward to.

    And for some reason you seemed surprise (well, virtually anyways) that some people would call you "Rich the Bitch..."
     
  5. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    oh oh

    <font color=red>PICCOLO</font color=red>
     
  6. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    chan, what _was_ the point of his post?

    > And for some reason you seemed surprise (well, virtually anyways)

    nope.
     
  7. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    > But the same can be said about your posts, Rich.

    can be said about anyone's dialog.

    and, incidentally, there is much more evidence of it against your posts than most of mine.
     
  8. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I've already explained that my messages have a point, simply to express my views on something in a constructive way. Your messages are more destructive than constructive. Bitch, bitch, bitch. Happy you. That's fine Rich, but why don't you just get to your point.

    -You're pissed off at Ice-9 for "killing the VF community's will to use Newsgroups" or however the fuck you want to phrase it.

    -As much as "you don't judge people based on how they act online, you still can't stand some people like Imashroom or regular posters even."

    -"The DC ruined the VF world as you knew it."

    -Are you still pissed off at Andy for that incident months ago? You seem to just want to send some posts in an effort to annoy him more than anything else.

    -You wish everywhere was like Toronto.

    -You want to attribute certain barriers to communication for your problems with other people. And to a point I can see that. However, I see a lot more people feeling free to communicate with Hiro and we have a harder time communicating with him than we ever will with you, save maybe Shota.

    -Even some of us who enjoy your company can't stand you at times because all you can do at times is bitch. Hell, somebody gave you a ride to New York and you nearly made the trip miserable for that person.

    -You are a bitter old pill who is stuck in the days of yesterday and instead of having good memories, you only carry a contempt for the present.

    Excuse me for venting it all out, but quite honestly, what I get the impression of is that it's probably since Ice-9 started posting again that you started being a dick again. Bitch, bitch, bitch. Wine, wine, wine. Get a fucking enema or something.

    I'm not trying to argue here, I'm merely venting. Just to clarify.

    As far as the point of Ice's post, he was just trying to stimulate a topic. And well, I found it interesting and I appreciated it. Why? Because you guys would rarely bother to post something like that, whether I asked and I don't even find that stuff in the faqs you guys are always referring to. You know there are a lot of beginners around this forum. It wasn't like the post was meant for you, but you still gotta go off on it. Is it because it's a post by Ice?

    I don't care whether you really judge others or not based on online anymore, but a lot of people will probably judge you anyways. The sad part is, they don't at all feel disappointed in you because "you've lived up to their expectations" when they met you. Yes, I enjoy talking and chatting with you, when you're not being a dick anyways.

    As far as the post you put up above? God, I wish you didn't live up to my expectations, but yet again, of course Rich was gonna come up with his "typical" post.

    What the hell are you mad at anyways? The world? Are you just slamming down beers and watching TV all the time and nothing else? Come on, find something to be happy about.

    I could take your posts as a joke as you like to imply to me, but after awhile, the humor gets real fucking dry.

    -Chanchai
     
  9. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    U know..I can always plan and react immediately for every sort of roll (URA, Oki, ESCAPE/images/icons/smile.gif)

    Yet, when the opponent rolls fowards, I ALWAYS CHOOSE OKI OVER FREE FRAGS.

    WHY I will never know....I mean, it's a free hit...yet my mind always will let oki come into control!

    annoying...really/images/icons/mad.gif

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'
     
  10. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Based on my past experience at gatherings, very few people think this way (Sumeragi and Shota being exceptions...I apologize if I didn't notice it in anyone else). Most Sarah players would just go for the guaranteed d/f+K after the b+P+G.

    Just trying to promote the general level of play.

    ice-9
     
  11. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    U know, I think I FOCUS so much on ura and oki, I have totally rid this habit of kick or pounce when the opponent is on the ground.

    Thus my reaction to when the opponent rolls forward.

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'
     
  12. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    > -You're pissed off at Ice-9 for "killing the VF community's will to use Newsgroups" or however the fuck you want to phrase it

    correct. as well as having such a poor vf site. there is so little informational content at all. this site is one reason i started the archive, frustration over there being so little info at all in one location which advertises it.

    > -As much as "you don't judge people based on how they act online, you still can't stand some people like Imashroom or regular posters even."

    i try not to (may or may not) judge the actual person, and i may or may not assume that the person talking online is like that in person. i do judge, and react directly to what someone blathers online. i think "imashroom" is a prententious dipshit and he annoyed the fuck out of me. whoever posts under that name may or may not be in person, in real life, a pretentious dipshit who i could not stand - i don't fairly know.

    > Hell, somebody gave you a ride to New York and you nearly made the trip miserable for that person.

    if i'm right in guessing who that somebody is..actually i'll quote someone else on this - roughly: "all you have to do is get some dirt on his floormat and he is miserable [anyway]."

    > -"The DC ruined the VF world as you knew it."

    yes, it did - as -i- knew it. but i am not alone in this thought.

    > -You wish everywhere was like Toronto.

    no. that above line is just nonsense.
    toronto is great, though, vf-wise and otherwise. on a per-visit basis i have had more fun up there vfing than anywhere else (vancouver was fab, though), and i find the people up there more interesting, and more enjoyable than most other places i've been.

    > -Are you still pissed off at Andy for that incident months ago?

    what the _fuck_ are you talking about?

    > You seem to just want to send some posts in an effort to annoy him more than anything else.

    i'm trying to get straight answers out of him, trying to get more out of him than his incessant japan/crewnyc arrogant, nonsensical ravings. if that annoys him, then so fucking be it.

    > -You are a bitter old pill who is stuck in the days of yesterday and instead of having good memories, you only carry a contempt for the present.

    as i've tried to explain to others who have gotten on my case about this - if you've been where i have been, experienced the different locations, people and comunities (online and off) as varied and as often as i have, then you most likely would have the same view of the vfing situation of today. maybe.

    >You want to attribute certain barriers to communication for your problems with other people. And to a point I can see that. However, I see a lot more people feeling free to communicate with Hiro and we have a harder time communicating with him than we ever will with you, save maybe Shota.

    i cannot make any sense of this at all.
    if you're alluding to my hearing loss, stay the fuck away from that. you do not have a fucking clue, and never will. do not go there.

    > And well, I found it interesting and I appreciated it.

    can you answer my original question...what was the point?

    all i saw was, in summary: "vf rising system has guessing games". uh, okay, tell us something that we haven't known for all of seven years.

    > Is it because it's a post by Ice

    no, it's because what was written. i don't care who it is written by.

    > What the hell are you mad at anyways? The world? Are you just slamming down beers and watching TV all the time

    i hate beer. i do probably do watch too much tv, though. but at least i know i have good taste in what i watch.

    and a hearty "fuck off" to you for that ridiculous, judgemental (incorrect, too), off-base and out of line statement, nick.
     
  13. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Hey Summers, my post was actually in response to Rich's post...I bet you view stuff in flat mode as well. :)

    ice-9
     
  14. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    "it's totally fucking pointless"

    u mean ur responses to Andy on the Pai thread are not?

    Just wondering.....





    <font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'
     
  15. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    > -You're pissed off at Ice-9 for "killing the VF community's will to use Newsgroups" or however the fuck you want to phrase it

    correct. as well as having such a poor vf site. there is so little informational content at all. this site is one reason i started the archive, frustration over there being so little info at all in one location which advertises it.


    Why not put the archive on VFDC? Then it wouldn't be such a poor site now right?

    ice-9
     
  16. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    as i posted in another thread, i was trying to make some sense of his blathering.
     
  17. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    i'd be happy to send it to when it's done. you'll have to upload it and set up a navi system - html, whatever - yourself or have someone else do it, because i'm clueless when it comes to that sort of thing.

    there's about 20 mb of text (could be off a bit, don't have it here to check), 100 mb of images, 250 mb of mp3's, and if chan sends me movies, about 600 mb , maybe more of movies collected off the net. plus a bunch of archived web pages and other assorted crap.
     
  18. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    got that right Jeff.

    I find it such a pain to click, click, click, back, click..
    flat mode.
    I can work out pretty well who is responding to who...

    Incidentally, I just felt like adding that's all. /images/icons/smile.gif

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'
     
  19. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the thought out response, I enjoyed reading it because it sounded like a constructive post again.

    Like I said, I wasn't arguing, just venting. Had to get that shit out of my system.

    I know I went way over the line, but I guess I was that annoyed.

    Yes, there are options generally everywhere. However, nothing wrong with pointing it out imo, no matter how obvious when it's been evident that some people weren't aware (I was aware, but a reclarification is nice). In general, yes, it's not at all like the old community. And you know I wish I didn't miss out on the old community. But for the sake of even a newer generation, for VF3tbDC or VF4, can you at least let it be? Or are you gonna scare them away all the time because you already knew this and already knew that? Or because it's just not at all the glory of what used to be and there's no hope for the future or whatever? If the post doesn't affect you much, is there a point to bug about it, can you just let it flow to those who would benefit about it?

    Ah well... I've been too stressed out about stuff lately, and I take your posts too seriously... But it was annoying seeing your posts pop up so much in the Pai thread. At least you clarified it, though the posts still annoy me, probably because they had an added (negative) emphasis on them.

    *sigh* I don't know... I'm becoming a bitter old pill here... I guess I've just read way too many of your posts... Ack, can't believe I'm still awake...

    -Chanchai

    P.S. Oh well, I guess I stupidly just got too used to your enthusiasm when the VF4 pics came out(not realizing it though)...
     
  20. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Rich
    Have u managed to find that Vf on the vocal track I so desperately want???

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'
     

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