The Way Shun Di Should Be Played

With over a thousand matches in Kumite playing Shun, and 11
items won, I still cannot defeat Dans, at ANY level. Playing
Shun against Jacky is an automatic loss. I cannot grasp Shun's
offensive weapons; various situations arise where I'm frozen,
trying to remember what Shun can do to get out of a serious
damaging situation. I won 41 percent of the time, always against
Kyus or higher Dans, but hardly EVER against 1st Dans when trying
to reach 2nd.

With Lau Chan, I found a FAQ that was very descriptive in
breaking down Lau's offesive moves as applied to situation,
weight of opp., recovery and so on. With all the posts about
Shun (most of which are from months in the past, as if every Shun
player has given up on him at this point...or progressed as far
as they can) there is really nothing to say what is best to do when
cornered, or against a wall, or the proper philosophy to have against
upper tier characters. You can't go after them, and all you can do is
block until you're floated and destroyed. All the buffering in the
world isn't going to help (especially against the CPU, which
abuses almost all low sweeps with high knees).

Which raises another point: Can Shun actually defeat higher
ranked CPU or human opponents playing as Lau, Jacky, Sarah,
Akira? I find myself doubting it, and am crippled in my playing
sense by the idea that Shun as a character is fundamentally
weak compared to upper tier characters. I mean, no matter how
much deception there is, or how much drinking he does, he will
not defeat stronger offensive characters on a regular basis. I want
to believe this is not the case, and that I am merely inept at
using Shun.

 

Shun IS a bit weaker than other characters but not much. He's perfectly capable of defeating Akiras and Jackys, you just have to work a little more /versus/images/icons/wink.gif The mentioned characters are usually played all-out, pure offense; Shun is a bit different (although he CAN be played in ultra-aggressive style). He's not a crippled character for sure. As for advice, I can't really give you anything that will automatically make you defeat the CPU or human opponents; I strongly recommend that you 1/ learn the VF basics! most CPU fights can be won using just low punches and throws, but you need to understand the "flow of the game" (in lack of a better word) - this will certainly help once you face human opponents 2/ thoroughly check/test Shun's movelist, learn which moves are counterable, which are often interrupted, his fast pokes, throws, stance/position transitions and such. In VF you need to understand a character to play effectively - and you've picked a challenging one. Try working on him a bit; learning juggles and such won't do much good.

 

Considering this was one of my first posts, I much appreciate the
articulate response. Thanks much.

I think I worry too much that Shun Di is comedy relief, where
VF is concerned; Drunken Boxing, in the real world, is a
much more aggressive style, with plenty of blocks and sluggish
"lean-on" movements (body on body, or using the arms to
tie up striking arms/legs, ect) to control a fighter. You can
see this in excellent films like SNAKE IN THE MONKEY'S SHADOW and
SHAOLIN DRUNKEN MONK. That's what Shun is missing, I think:
power, using movements that look powerless--but Shun IS
too slow, even with over 20 drinks. And you're NOT going to
get 20 drinks against Akira or Jacky.

I'd like to see a younger fighter inherit Shun's style, applied
as in real life with some other Shaolin techniques, Monkey style
perhaps. And I hate to be bias, but Drunken Boxing is not
a woman's style; if the VF storyline is to be considered, Shun
has a pupil "within(?)" the Tounament. Horror of horrors that
it should be the screeching Lion. Please tell me this is not
so.

 

I find it extremely odd that Shun has no low throws or reversals -- I think they'd compliment his bizarre style.

As for his 'strength' -- you're right. He is a bit weaker than... well... everyone. He's got some easy moves to grasp, but to actually put these into practice and actually beat high-level people with them is another story.

I've found the best way to beat people with Shun is to be deceptive -- this rarely works against the CPU.

try to concetrate on drinking not being a big part of your game. Think of it as bonus. Iknow, it's hard to do, but it'll likely help a bit.

 

Hm.....

Shun di can be very strong and can definately human opponents playing any characters. Although drinking does helps but at 0 Dps, Shun di can still be very strong.

You just haven't found an effective way to play Shun di. And by playing only in Kumite, it will be more difficult to actually use him effective cos CPU tends to have a similiar pattern while Human opponents don/t. Consistent winnings in Kumite doesn't equals to consistent winnings against Human opponents.

 

No doubt the human aspect would make Shun MUCH stronger.
I can make a fool out of low-level human players, such as myself. Kumite
is a different animal. The CPU is a machine, and machines don't get pissed
off when I back-back K, leave Shun's back turned and let them charge into
a second back kick. When the CPU does that, it simply gets up and rips into
my gloating, drinking Shun.

I love Shun, honestly. And I'm determined to be effective with him against the
CPU. I find it impossible to believe that I cannot defeat other 1st Dans with him, but
even with Lau it is a challenge. I think my playing prowess is limited; I do not
string together attacks very well. My difficulty with Shun has been lessened by
simply playing and ignoring the drinking aspect, for now, except at the end of
rounds and the automatic after throws. Still, as always, all speed players rip me apart,
Pai, Sarah and Jacky.

F'ing Jacky. I don't care what anybody says, he's too strong. If anyone has
definitive Shun tactics to take against Jacky, I'd appreciate it. Jacky embarrasses
my Shun play like you would not believe.

 

Hi i just wanna know if my techinque is any good.
I got up to stormlord so far with 445/42

Round 1- start the match with a .if it connects i use a then a follow with a then a . and end it with a follow with a or a

round 2-start off with (hope noone evade its) then floowi it up with a . i do my little and a then i doa follow up with a or a then i use or till the round is over

round 3.start of with then a then a on the ground i use a then use a . i use a and do a .

but thats for just in kumite only

is that good i think so

 

First off with shun, you gotta learn your upper cuts, chowan and all the rest...Being able to exicut them in a smooth AND fast motion 99% of the time is critical, as they are his major float starters. I would then concentrate on learning a few easy to do, guaranteed combos...you can do a search for them on the site. Chowan, b, f+ppp is a nice, easy combo that can do a nice bit of damage, depending on your drinking status. For me, I tend to try and stay away from his BT game just because aside from his backfist and D+ , it really is weak. I hardly ever use his drunken/random walks, in that most of his attacks out of it are waaay to slow in comming out, even if you do get the evade. Movement for shun is perhaps the single most critical element in his style. Learning to use his special evades and special evade attacks really can help set up a very offensive defense, if you know what I am saying. Ontop of which, effective movement will create more chances to drink. Learning to maintain your drink level at at least 10-15, preferably at the magic 18 mark, is critical.
On a MC, shuns special evading slap (i can't recall the command inputs) floats and can set up for a few combos as well as a ground game.

 

Just remember something. Check your replay files that come on the VF4 game -- you can see Kyasao's Shun on there. (Kyasa-ji as he called it for the replay files). I've fought against his Shun before, and the replay file is quite similar to how he plays in the arcade. Can't say the same for Chibita on the disc.

 

I never checked out Shun play on the Disc Replay, only because
I looked at all the Lau matches on there while trying to learn him, and thought there was
no way that this guy 9La could be that bad. I'm assuming this Lau creaming
by various characters is what Lau players complain about. I mean, what fascinated me
was the very cool guarding and throw escaping. The whole fight had a dimension I'd
never seen, what with all the manuevering for offensive position. Still, I kept thinking, "Why
isn't Lau PPPPPPPPPing?"

I'll watch the Shun stuff definitely. The more advice I get through this
thread, the more effective Shun seems to be. Still, the drinking thing is
Shun's dichotomy: drinking does increase his power and speed, that I'm sure of.
But I cannot imagine (and I'm talking about against the CPU) being able to
consistently reach 18 drinks, in a ranking match in particular. And this is a major
psychological problem going into Kumite matches with mind-reading, unemotional CPU
characters.

Again, take into consideration my poor defensive skills. I don't LIKE to run and
hide with Shun; in fact, you can only run away for mere seconds against the CPU. If Shun can be an offensive force, and I'm simply not playing him
correctly, then I'd definitely like to develop my skills with him. I keep envisioning a time
when I turn that 41 % wins into something like 65%.

 

Hehe. Well, the problem with Shun, is that everyone knows you need to keep him sober to keep the edge. Generally, a good opponent (human) in a title match will never try ANY other throws besides +, fear that Shun might have the upper-hand and actually pull off his + - thus escaping it, and keeping Shun sober. My advice:

Only do + after maybe a low punch. If you think your opponent is going to try to throw escape, try +. Not near as much damage, but you get 3 drinks, and can get a down attack in as well.

 

I believe how embarassing your Shun vs. Jacky matches are. Mine are the same way -- but oddly enough, he only gives me real problems on ranking matches. This happened earlier today: I fought with my Shun (Shidoshi, 2nd Kyu, 25/2 win/loss) against BlackJack. Won it 3-1 with an excellent round 4. Next match was a ranking match, against the same Jacky (BlackJack). He freaking creamed my old ass 3-0. He was doin' stuff you wouldn't believe. Evading was useless. Back/crouch dashing was useless. Staying close & low was useless. His handstand stance was useless. Everything was useless!

I really need to spend some time fighting against a CPU Jacky in free training... /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

 

I dont play shun, but I play against pretty good shuns.
This is what I know I hope it helps.

While shun can be an offensive for, You will not do well with him this way. Shun is a defensive god. While most players flowchart off offense, shun flowcharts off of defense.

Quick example, if someone blocks shun standing jab, chouwan is gauranteed.

See what I mean, shun, when play on a defensive flowchart is actually quite a pain in the ass. He feeds off of it,

Drinking is important, because it increases dmg given, and it opens up different moves.

Shuns low kick is a monster. abuse it. LIke i said I dont play shun, but I play people who do, they use this low kick instead of a low punch.

HOpe this helps

 

"Quick example, if someone blocks shun standing jab, chouwan is gauranteed."

What the hell are you Florida boys smoking? Chouwan isnt garaunteed if you block shuns jab. I mean it will hit slower moves but hey jab back . Shun's standing when blocked loses you -1 frame of initiative. Chouwan executes in 15 frames. So anything that executes in less than 16 frames will beat the chouwan after blocking shuns . Now go buy a clue or quit posting the crap

 

Jedi was wrong about P, Chuowan being unbeatable on block. But P, Chouwan is almost never a bad idea. That's not bad advice. Especially for someone that doesn't know FC, d/f+P is a guaranteed mC after certain sweeps.

Run along.... /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

 

It just never occured to me before you brought it up on IRC. Now if we want to talk who has stated more retarded crap on irc that's fine i will win that as well. IRC is more understandable for mistakes as it is really free flowing . The boards are different you should have your shit down before you post it. Throwing + after having your blocked isnt the best idea imo. You run the risk of eating countless MC combo's

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The boards are different you should have your shit down before you post it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ideally, but not everyone does. Maybe you "should" be more polite when correcting someones error?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Now if we want to talk who has stated more retarded crap on irc that's fine i will win that as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

What exactly are you winning at here?

Come to NYG and we'll see how much winning you can do at VF4. <----- That's a friendly invitation /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Shun Di drunken fighting against Jacky

<font color="33ffcc"> I'm fond of the twisting double fisted strike 6+P+K (f+P+K) +. <font color="33ffff">Yutaki Matzuki</font color>, you may remember YM-san was the Shun expert that used this move often in his VF battles. <font color="33ffff">YM</font color> is also known as Dragon Jiji. : <font color="33ffff">YM</font color> also found Shun's sidekick a helpful deterent against opponents that charge at you when you CD back or escape back YM says,:<font color="00ff99">"Sidekick - Shun's sidekick is important to him since he has no elbow to rely on."</font color> His sidekick can stagger crouch-dashing opponents. After the stagger, Shun has a few good options and guessing games to exploit. First, let's look at an option that works when opponent thinks they have you figured out and you have them expecting a attack. Dash in and throw. Since Shun only has a few directions for his throw commands this limitation of types of throws requires Shun Di players to have a few back up attacks. If the opponent is good at TE then Shun will find 25-40% of his throws escaped. If your opponent can triple escape(P+G, b+P+G, d/f+P+G), then there's little opportunity for Shun to throw the opponent without, among other tactical options, excellent delays in starts like: df+P, [If the first punch MCs the opponent, Shun gets a window that allows for a 270{degrees not directions /versus/images/icons/wink.gif } requires <font color="red"> 10 DP </font color> to work, but you can still practice this and get normal b+P+G throw with same motions. throw attempt!orstarts the throw and you spin around the compass directions and end with (b+P+G) <font color="orange"> 4+P+G </font color> +P+G.](delay),(delay). This can help you interupt Jacky's and even Lau's machine gun style attacks. Here's where the second option comes in. If you know that your opponent will very likely throw escape, then do the <font color="ffcc33"> Twisting Double Fisted Strike (f+P+K). TWSF</font color> has the ability to dodge some high attacks and some mid attacks too. /versus/images/icons/wink.gif Against fighters like mid to heavyweights like Jacky, Vanessa and Jeff who have important throws that execute with the <font color="yellow"> 3+P+G </font color> (df+P+G)
++ command Shun's df+P+G + throw followed by Chouwan-backfist 236+P->4+P (d,d/f,f+P, b+P)+,+, Lunging Upper (b,d/f+P), Pounce (u+P)[?] can be a good weapon in your quiver. Here are two for when you have backed into the wall by Jacky: <font color="yellow"> d/f+P+G, Chouwan-backfist (d,d/f,f+P, b+P), f+P+K with the f+P+K hitting them on wall bounce. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif</font color> /versus/images/icons/cool.gif and... d/f+P+G, Chouwan-backfist (d,d/f,f+P, b+P), f+P,P,K All the above need <font color="yellow"> 6DP </font color> before execution. /versus/images/icons/smirk.gif Whem Jacky tries to evade use semi-circular kicks. b+K is a move that creates space between Shun Di and your opponent. b+K kicks and pushes your opponent backward a bit. Shun Di falls down after execution, avoiding medium and high attacks while he has a little breathing room. hadaken and JangLee both have good Shuns so check out the latest vids with both along with the Shun vids GP-san mentions in his post.(same thread above) /versus/images/icons/smile.gif JangLee is teamed with Shinz in the <font color="white"> 5 on 5 </font color> section 10:30 second vid found at team battle section of No Mercy site. Link to <font color="ccff33"> No Mercy Club VF4 </font color> site is found on front page of: The Shaolin Brotherhood of VF I like <font color="66ff33">(db+K,K)</font color> against Jacky as he advances to attack after Shun does a CD backwards or a variation of CD like the <font color="99ff33"> bd,N,bd </font color> back dash. <font color="66ff33">First strike is low and second is high</font color> then JIJI drops to floor if you hold .

 

You are right i should be more polite but diss-information irks me. Now no more posts that dont pertain to shun strategy or tactics.

 

Hey i do check shun's replay files but the relpay files shun as a hit and run person. I want to control shun so he will be an unstobale force like my A.I. Pai lol. I want shun to control the fight not gets his hits and block all the time. and some moves are just plain usless

+--When am i going to use that
++ any ++- it evade some moves but people like Jacky and Aoi can counter it with a 80 pt combo

Some of your straigies are good but some back shun a baby.