Theory of VF Skill

This is something I've been tossing around in my mind for a while...what makes a person good at VF? Is there such a thing as natural talent? Why are some players so good at doing one particular thing but still weak overall? I think "skill" in VF can be broken down in the following categories:


Knowledge. This pertains to knowing the nuances of the game. Frame statistics, maximum damage combos, guaranteed opportunities, move-will-beat-that-move-in-this-situation type of information, nitaku games, etc. Non-Japanese speaking gamers are most disadvantaged in this area, as we don't have access to the widest pool of information in Japanese-language elite players, guides, and forums.

Examples of players with a high level of knowledge: Hiro, spotlite, Kyasao


Execution. Basically, the part where a player is able to "do" what he or she wants. Players with high execution skill can SPOD, triple guard throw escape, ARE, etc. with ease. While this area can be easily trained over time, but it is also about perfect control in forcing the style and pace of matches. Minami, for example, has such a powerful mid-range game thanks to his perfect execution that it is hard for his opponents to engage him on an even level.

Examples of players with a high level of execution: Danny, Adam, Minami


Reflexes. Or recognition, perhaps. Having exceptional reflexes is about being able to perceive what's happening in the game and reacting to it appropriately. This means not falling for P-throw or LP-throw, excelling in reverse-nitaku, having a perfect sense of hit-checks, monitoring stance, etc. Overall, I believe this is the most difficult component to "learn" and maintain consistently.

Examples of players with a high level of reflexes: Ryan, IMF, Chibita


Yomi. The art of guessing games. At the most elite level, the difference maker usually comes down to yomi as elite players already excel in the other areas. Most of the time, players who don't appear to have strong yomi usually don't understand the guessing game at hand (or lacks the reflexes to recognize and the execution to react to the guessing game), so I do think yomi can be developed.

Examples of players with high yomi: Ohsu


Experience. At first, I thought experience shouldn't constitute a component of skill insofar that it could serve as a basis of developing the other four components. However, I have met players with average knowledge, execution, reflexes, and yomi but with above average games. I think the key difference maker to these players is their experience...players with great exposure to different styles, opponents, etc. after a while simply develop a sense of what works and what doesn't. Experience is different to knowledge in that knowledge is explicit whereas experience is often intuitive. Like knowledge, this is a problematic area for players with limited competition.

Examples of players with high experience: Ryan, GaijinPunch, Homestay


Knowledge. Execution. Reflexes. Yomi. Experience. I think these five components make up what can be called skill in VF. I believe "natural talent" exists insofar what a player is capable of within these five components without any training (experience can pertain to a player's exposure to other fighting games), but all four components can developed.


Using this framework to evaluate my own skill, I would rate myself (benchmarked to the typical 8-10th dan in Japan with 50-60% wining percentage):

Knowledge: Slightly disadvantaged. Can't read or speak Japanese, and I don't have the time to test stuff or hang out in chats.

Execution: Slightly advantaged. I've been playing VF since VF3!

Reflexes: Par. Better recognition of some things, worse in others.

Yomi: Slightly advantaged. I think.

Experience: Highly disadvantaged. I still have trouble against certain styles, certain characters.

Overall skill: Slightly advantaged. My card stats when in Japan: 9th dan, 62%. Built from Nishispo, High Tech and Gigo at Shibuya, and Sega Akihabara

 

/clap, congrats ice-9 on getting an A on English in college. Other than that, we got another pile of dog shit by our great vfdc owner.

 

Shang loves dog shit.

Glad to keep feeding you boyo!

 

Hmm, didn't want to start a controversy or anything, but a clarification may be needed on my listing Adam as an example of execution. It's based primarily from VF3...Adam's skill in execution with Akira in VF3 is AMAZING. Perfect SPOD (counter or no), DLC combos (no yellow flashes, remember), max-damage bodycheck, throw escapes, etc. He was really impressive in VF3--not just in terms of wins but also in execution.

It's true he doesn't look like anything special when playing Jeffry in VF4. Maybe he's lost some of those execution skills in VF4, but I doubt it.

Just in case people who've only seen Adam in VF4 are wondering.

 

Basically what you said applies to every fighting game imaginable and just VF. A lot of these things are true for competitive things in general. My views:

Yomi-Is the way of not just guessing games, but total manipulation of your opponent's psyche. There's plenty of ways to do this like making them afraid, getting them mad, or just plain confusing the hell out them. Chibita rocks at this. His style is so wild it just throws people off and he's got the "Chibita" headfuck going. He's got so many matches in the bag because people are already scared of him before they actually play him. His rep is that fierce. Anyway, yomi is the ultimate but then you need...

Knowledge-If you're reading what the opponent can do but can't stop the beating it's most likely because of a lack of knowledge on your part. Knowledge is the sword in the hand of yomi. If your opponent has a sword and you're barehanded you've got problems. Luckily knowledge is one the easier things to attain. Next comes...

Execution/Manual dexterity-You've got your sword, you've read the instruction book, but are you strong enough to swing it? If you've 150 pounds soaking wet and you've got the Dragon Slayer in your hands once again you've got problems. This is physical aspect of games and it must be practiced. Unfortunately, an opponent with good yomi can wreck even the greatest execution. Next comes...

Reflexes-The hardest thing to attain and I don't even know if it is possible but it's one of the greatest things to have. Reflexes kill a ton of guessing games. If there is no deception there's no strategy as Sun Tzu would say. A defensive player with insane relexes is a tough nut to crack and only real way to stop these players is turn their own reflexes against them which takes some serious yomi. Next there's...

Experience-This can be a cheap subsitute for yomi at times. After you've been in so many swordfights you have a pretty good idea what's gonna go down. You already have a mind that's used to being in battle. This allows to at least hang with almost everyone except those who are super elite. Finally comes...

Desire-The food of all the above. Can't swing your sword on an empty stomach. Alex Valle rocked at this. That motherfucker hardly ever gives up and he practically always plays like he has a full life meter. I saw this dude play for a couple of days and started to get the poor man's version of his attitude and my game has improved because of it. I can't count the matches I have won because I simply wanted to win more than my opponent.

Add all these things together you become a player who is really hard to beat at almost any game.

 

Ummm...someone want to explain Shang's attachment pic btw? I must admit it is somewhat funny even if i do not understand why it was posted here!

 

APPARENTELY ICE-9 WILL NEVER FORGET

 

hahaha, if that's ice -9, it'll be all the funnier.

 

No it's not. Err... Its not rite Jeffrey? /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Yeah, you're right, it's more a theory of skill in fighting games than just VF! And good call on desire--I totally forgot about the X-factor, the fire-in-the-belly.

For fighting games, I would probably generalize desire to capture endurance in generating and sustaining long winning streaks, but also the iron consistency to perform well under the pressures of tournaments and ranking matches.

Knowledge. Experience. Execution. Reflexes. Yomi. Desire. This framework is really interesting for me to compare/contrast different players.

Take spotlite. Bryan admits to having disadvantaged execution skills (and reflexes?) but his good base of knowledge and yomi more than compensates.

Take Adam. He's probably a little disadvantaged in reflexes (e.g. falling for -> throw, slow guard-stagger moves) but his amazing execution skill and desire makes him one of the strongest VF players in the U.S.

Take IMF. Probably disadvantaged in experience, IMF's superior execution, reflexes, and mental strength make him one of best VF players in the U.S. with only 2 years of playing time.

Take Ryan. He is probably the most well-rounded in terms of skill that I have played against outside of Asia. Excellent knowledge (he is fluent in Japanese), execution (Tekken training), reflexes, experience (having played in Japan quite frequently), and desire. He basically has no weaknesses.

Take Shang. Still immature about the "Shang is not that good" comment I made some time ago.

 

ice-9: I disagree with some of your points such as defensive techniques being just lumped into execution. Something like EDTEG is a reflex when used in battle but knowing you can do it is obviously knowledge and doing it consistantly is execution. Reacting to something like throw with a defensive tech (E-whatever, launcher, etc) is a reflex.

BTW, your scouting report is a bit off. I know it's been about a year since you've played Western players so that's to be expected. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Hmm.

Doesn't this thread belong under the common topics to avoid post? J/K (almost). /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Shou:

Yeah, I probably shouldn't lump them together in the example, but I think I was trying to draw different sides of the same thing.

Take EDTEG, for example.

You need the knowledge to know what it is, and what it's good for.

You need experience to know if it'll work against your X-dan, X-style opponent.

You need execution skill to actually DO it properly.

You need reflexes to pull it off in the heat of the battle.

You need yomi to use it correctly against your opponent.

You need desire to...uh, win?

Hence, each technique can be drawn and quartered with the six components of skill.

I haven't played U.S. folk for quite a while now, but I did play the U.K. gang quite recently in August/September. This is going to sound weird, but I really miss the scene in the U.S., especially with all these tournaments, gatherings, and new players popping up all over the place.

Shou, judging from clips you've improved a lot! Sarah definitely suits your style more than Akira.


KiwE:

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Doesn't this thread belong under the common topics to avoid post? J/K (almost).

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Uh, no.

 

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ice-9 said:
I haven't played U.S. folk for quite a while now, but I did play the U.K. gang quite recently in August/September.

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Ice9:
when was the last time you played the US players you mentioned? Give a Name/Time.
If you've only played UK players lately, give feedbacks about UK players. I mean that by get off Ryan's dick and say something about other people.
While I might be immature online, you are a fucking moron trying to be a vf authority on things you are clueless of.
Do everyone a favor, if YOU can't find a weakness with Ryan's playing, say "Ice-9 can't find a weakness with ryan hart's vf playing" Instead of "ryan hart basically has no weakness". you fucking idiot.

 

Dear Shang,

IN MY OPINION, please don't be so sensitive. IN MY VIEW, this thread isn't about giving feedback to players. TO ME, it's about a "Theory on VF Skill," as you might be able to tell from the subject heading. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, I cited players as examples of components of skill.

MY PERSPECTIVE is that Shang, just because I didn't mention you, it doesn't mean I don't love you.

THIS IS JUST ME, but not every statement has to be prefaced with a disclaimer of a writer's view. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, every written statement implies a perspective and/or statement of fact. I CAN ONLY SPEAK FOR MYSELF, but saying someone has no weaknesses is obviously a statement of opinion, not fact, and to mention that explicitly is to be redundant.

THIS IS JUST MY RECOMMENDATION, but please, just chill out, don't be so god damn sensitive.

Yours truly,
Mr. Moron

 

One thing I don't think you accounted for:

Composure

This can't really be measured, but I've seen excellent players revert to scrub tactics because they lost their cool in a match. They lose their temper when something doesn't go their way, and do something stupid. By the same virtue, I've seen a person completely recompose themself in a split-second, and come out cooler and more focused than ever. This can make a huge difference in a match, and I speak from a certain ammount of experience.

Like I said; though hard to quantify, this is an attribute which can hardly be overlooked. Keeping your cool in a serious match can make all the difference in the world.

 

"NO KNOWN WEAKNESSES..."

haha, sounds like a Boss Character /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Rehan (Dead Man Inc.)

 

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The_Chef said:
haha, sounds like a Boss Character /versus/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

BELIEVE IT!