throwing stomach crumbling opponents?

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by jackybrothas, Dec 6, 2001.

  1. jackybrothas

    jackybrothas Well-Known Member

    vanessa is the only one i think that can crouch catch throw a stomach crumbled opponent....

    i've tried with wolf's giant toss but it doesn't work..... i haven't tried jeffery's crouch throw or aoi's crouch throw..... hmmmmm any ideas?
     
  2. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    why not?
    any one with low throws can do it
     
  3. jackybrothas

    jackybrothas Well-Known Member

    hmmmm well maybe i wasn't close enough or didn't do the crouch throw fast enough........ is there any video clips showing this? well i'll try again tomorrow
     
  4. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Stomach Crumple/KD is open to low throws. Aoi, Jeffrey, Vanessa, etc.... You name the low throw, it will work on the stomach crumple, and all your opponent can do is input the escape command or suffer (or maybe discover a weakness in a low throw resulting position?).

    And of course you can do other things too.

    -Chanchai
     
  5. Yupa

    Yupa Well-Known Member

    Anyone with low throws can do it. Just enter in the throw when you see the KD animation. I've seen 3 different people doing this in Boston. Rich and Hyun with Jeffry and Shang with Aoi, although Shang usually goes for a combo. Don't dash, just enter in the throw and Jeff/Aoi will warp to their opponent.
     
  6. jackybrothas

    jackybrothas Well-Known Member

    ok thanks everyone. i think i just have been corrected for the third time! hehe..
     
  7. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Look in the VF4 Jeffry Questions thread--there are basically three types of KD. Only the stomach one will get you a low throw.

    Maybe we need a terminology for distinguishing which is which? HKD, MKD, LKD maybe?
     
  8. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Fall down animations

    No, there's only one crumple (KD) animation. And it can always be low thrown.

    The following is a list of knockdown situations. I could be missing some, but I don't think so.

    1. <font color=orange>Normal</font color=orange> - can be techrolled.

    2. <font color=orange>Crumple</font color=orange> - Cannot be techrolled. Opponent hugs their guts and crumples slowly to the floor. Can be low thrown. Ex: Akira's SDE (MC), Jeff's f+P+K, etc.

    3. <font color=orange>Slam</font color=orange> - cannot be tech rolled, guaranteed pounce. Ex: Pai's KK, Wolf and Jeff's b+P, Wolf's f+PP, Lion's df+PP, etc.

    4. <font color=orange>Sit down</font color=orange> - kinda like Akira's SgPm animation from VF2. The opponent falls back onto their ass and then get up. Ex: Wolf's f+K+G

    5. <font color=orange>Pop up</font color=orange> - after knocking an opponent into the sit down animation, some moves will pop the oppponent back up. This can be high thrown. Ex: Wolfs b+P after sit down from f+K+G, *df+P

    6. <font color=orange>Hand down</font color=orange> - sometimes sweeps and certain low attacks will not knock down and will cause the opponent to essentially put a hand down before immediately getting back up. I'm not sure of the conditions for this. Ex: Lion's two footed sweep, Wolf's f,d+K, Akira's df+P+K, etc.


    So, there's no need to create new terminology - the fall downs are all pretty self-explanatory and have quite distinct animations.

    cheers,
     
  9. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    The worst is when you are playing with Shun against Jeff and he does this. So you think I'll input the low throw escape of d+p+k+g cause he uses that alot. But to your suprise he does not low throw on purpose so that you drink. He then hits a Mc knee combo. I hate Jeff
     
  10. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    worse yet, I think d+P+K+G in VF4 causes Shun to get into his new stance. P+K+G by itself allows him to drink.

    But I see what you're saying. However, i guess that's why I generally stay out of Jeffry's throw range and leave the throw escaping to moments where the escaped is buffered in.

    -Chanchai
     
  11. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Oops, VF3 flashback sorry about that. Actually now that I think about it that new stance leaves you back turned so he could potentially get a backthrow. Of course you could always hit p,p to cancel out of the move and hit him. What the hell is d+p+k+g called anyway?

    I think you should be able to buffer the throw escape from the KD animation right. So would holding the guard after the throw escape prevent the d+p+k+g animation from coming out? Or does that only work on preventing throw whiffs from coming out?
     
  12. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I made a mistake.

    d+P+K+G is sit down. u+P+K+G is new stance. My bad/versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

    As for when you're in KD, inputting the low throw escape is easy enough and you can't really do anything else anyways (until the moment where you hit the ground in which you can struggle to get up or lie there for a bit longer).

    As for holding Guard... Nah, in this case, Shun will sit down anyways, but he can't be low thrown from there anyways. More on holding Guard in a bit...

    I should also add that in my experiences, I've hardly had a Jeffry player use d+P+K+G. Much more common for me is to escape with f+P+K+G or the overly used df+P+K+G. I still get caught by d+P+K+G every now and then, but I just don't encounter it nearly as much as the other low throws.

    Regarding your inquiry about holding Guard, it's unnecessary unless you want to block after coming out with whatever your character will come out with using d+P+K+G. For most charactes, you get a low punch, so it's sort of a built in option selet anyhow. For Shun, you'll sit down and if you sit down before your opponent goes for a low throw, I'm sure you can low kick, tumble kick, or drink just fine. However, if your character has a low throw with that command, then you may have a problem and may as well use some of the other option select options, but I think you might generally be screwed. I don't think holding Guard will help. I'm sure of it/versus/images/icons/wink.gif

    So.... holding Guard doesn't matter all that much unless your intentions are to block afterwards.

    In VF3, holding Guard while inputting a high throw escape during a dodge worked to just cancel the throw whiff and nothing more aside from blocking your opponent if they didn't use a quick enough attack to hit you.

    -Chanchai
     
  13. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    d+P+K+G is sit down. u+P+K+G is new stance. My bad

    Nah, you were right the first time. d+P+K makes Shun sit (try saying that 10 times fast).
     
  14. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    d+p+k+g or u+p+k+g are the new stance thingy either in or out of the screen. The sit down stance is d+p+k. About Jeff only using f+p+k+g yeah that is their favorite one. But Omaha Jeffrey mixes up really well. He uses all of the low throws and then he uses the knee in guaranteed throw situations about half the time it is really hard to guess right against him.
     
  15. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Re: Fall down animations

    No, there's only one crumple (KD) animation. And it can always be low thrown.

    Actually, Llan, there are three types of kuzure down, or crumple types.

    - Head (e.g. Aoi's b,b+P+K)
    - Stomach (e.g. Akira's SDE (MC))
    - Feet (e.g. Kage's b,b+K+G)

    All of these are non-recoverable knockdowns, and only the stomach crumple can be low thrown. As far as terminology is concerned, I remember talking about this in #vfhome with the guys, and I forgot what we agreed on, but I think Jeff's suggestion is pretty good (i.e. HKD, MKD, LKD for high/mid/low KD).

    As for the other knockdown situations:

    6. Hand down - sometimes sweeps and certain low attacks will not knock down and will cause the opponent to essentially put a hand down before immediately getting back up. I'm not sure of the conditions for this. Ex: Lion's two footed sweep, Wolf's f,d+K, Akira's df+P+K, etc.

    Is there anything special about this situation? From what I can tell, it's just a particular hit-animation for all non-knockdown sweeps.

    edit: argh, I meant to say that I do think Jeff's suggestion was a good one!
     
  16. kbcat

    kbcat Well-Known Member

    Re: Fall down animations

    6. Hand down - sometimes sweeps and certain low attacks will not knock down and will cause the opponent to essentially put a hand down before immediately getting back up. I'm not sure of the conditions for this. Ex: Lion's two footed sweep, Wolf's f,d+K, Akira's df+P+K, etc.

    Is there anything special about this situation? From what I can tell, it's just a particular hit-animation for all non-knockdown sweeps.


    Argh... I'll tell you what's special... When jacky gets that "hand down" animation with his low backfist he can treat it like a stagger and try and throw (or elbow, etc) his opponent since the low backfist recovers reasonably quickly. Aoi however is in a bad way when she gets the "hand down" -- her sweep takes much longer to recover than Jacky's low backfist -- so I usually have to low punch after a sweep on a normal hit to defend myself. Damn Jacky!


    kbcat -- sorry just bitter... Aoi is a tough road sometimes.
     
  17. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Re: Fall down animations

    Argh... I'll tell you what's special... When jacky gets that "hand down" animation with his low backfist he can treat it like a stagger and try and throw (or elbow, etc) his opponent since the low backfist recovers reasonably quickly.

    One thing that crossed my mind but wasn't sure about, during this hand down animation, are you always considered standing? Or is there a transition to crouch and back?

    Jacky's low backfist is pretty evil. So after a normal hit, does he have absolute initiative? For example, can your d+P beat his throw or elbow attempt?

    Aoi however is in a bad way when she gets the "hand down" -- her sweep takes much longer to recover than Jacky's low backfist -- so I usually have to low punch after a sweep on a normal hit to defend myself. Damn Jacky!

    Heh, I hear ya. But at least Aoi can G-cancel or YY her sweep! Vanessa's is slower and doesn't really give her any initiative after the hit. Feels like 50/50.
     
  18. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Re: Fall down animations

    Is there anything special about this situation? From what I can tell, it's just a particular hit-animation for all non-knockdown sweeps.

    I think I know the animation, the same as the animation that you get when Jacky low backfists you, correct? Which was previously reported as a stagger (which made me cry).

    I think you're right, it's just an alternate animation for whirling attacks that hit the leg and don't knock down. It doesn't feel like there's any more or less hitstun.
     
  19. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Re: Fall down animations

    Ok, I see where you're going with this - well, I guess it was just me then because I think of the stomach crumple when I read KD. The others I refer to as other fall downs. I had forgotten one though - the Flopping Face down falling animation after Jeff's b,f+P...
     
  20. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Fall down animations

    Hmm, you didn't check out the Jeffry thread did you? But, I was under the same assumption as you were, that KDs only referred to the stomach crumple (MKD) and the others were different types of staggers. It's all semantics really, but I figure if we're going to adopt a Japanese term for a KD situation, we should go all the way and use their entire definition (i.e. three types of KD: HKD, MKD, LKD).
     

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