Tsukamigaeshi option select +TE?

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthrea...%20j#Post328292

http://gohnotes.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/masters-guide-secret-goh-tactics-unveiled/

I came across these posts about Goh's Tsukamigaeshi yesterday and after playing around with it in dojo for a bit it turns out you can also buffer TE's into the option select.

Here's a quote from Leonard's blog explaining how the Tsukamigaeshi option select works.

"At that awkward moment, when you opponent is throwing you, press P+K+G and you will deflect the throw and transition to the Tsukami Grab. The timing is tricky but you can deflect any throw regardless of its throw direction and thus ultimately change the pace of the fight. It’s mainly used when moves like 3KP, 33P, 4K, 66P+G get blocked because the only guaranteed counterattack is a throw attempt. Based on the assumption that your opponent will use the fastest counterattack, press P+K+G and the timing will become easier. Also, it’s possible to do the Tsukamigaeshi with 4P+K+G. So, if your opponent doesn’t grab, it can still deflect his attacks."

Now to add TE's to the equation incase Tsukamigaeshi was unsuccessful, basically you input ++ but immediately release the and directional input, depending on the timing of your input and your opponents actions one of three things will happen.

This is assuming i'm at -10 (guaranteed throw attempt) and my opponent will immediately respond with a mid or neutral throw.

1. Opponent responded with a mid, ++ was successful and you can release then press + to go straight to Tsukami.

2. Opponent responded with a throw, Tsukamigaeshi timing was successful, this will reverse your opponents throw and lead Goh straight into Tsukami

3. Opponent responded with a throw, Tsukamigaeshi timing was unsuccessful. If you inputted ++ like I described then you should be holding + so you will get a successful throw escape. (Note: You can escape other throw directions by simply holding a direction after the initial input of [/size]++)[/size]

I tested this in dojo by setting the CPU to block then respond with a mid or throw and used Goh's to get to -10 but I doubt using this at heavy disadvantage is the only practical application for it, thanks to the properties of ++ and the ease of the option selects input it looks like a good choice whenever you're expecting a attack/throw mixup.

 

Good detailed post, thx and good job!

I will try to incorporate this into my game.

The only Goh player I've seen land this a lot is Kejiko. I've only seen Kanetsugu do it just once or twice.

Frankly however I like just sticking to fuzzy+TE or evade+TE and being much safer. Will most likely only throw this out a couple of times since I don't like the idea of the possibility of a whiffed 4P+K+G or probably getting hit by a knee attempting it.

edit:

heh after getting used to it in dojo I went to ranked and fought LA Akira and got destroyed because I focused too much on doing it, then I started playing better without using it for the next 10 games.

It gets beat by random low punches too so the advantage you might have gained will then turn over to the opponent, so doing fuzzy (at -4 to -5) or evade+TE (@ -10 situations) instead covers all the bases better imo.


For those having trouble with it I have a ez timing method.

After having 4K or 5K guarded input 33 buffer then do 4P+K+G, seems to get tsukamigaeshi out more successfully.

 

Thanks for the info Feck! The timing to reverse the throw seems like it's a just-frame input. From what I can tell, and the general difficulty of getting a successful throw reversal, the input window has to be a single frame; probably the first frame of their grab, just as their hands touch you.

It's nice that 4P+K+G is an option select that will also break the throw. As far as I can tell, you're better off inputting 4P+K+G instead of just neutral P+K+G just in case that mid is coming instead of the throw.

Goh is definitely a fun character to use in FS and I'm pretty happy with him overall. Jacky and Taka are my worst match ups so far.

 

This new option-select is a powerful new toy for the advanced Goh player. Sure, the execution bar is pretty high, but so is the net gain.

After moves that leave you at -10 disadvantage, the Tsukamigaeshi option-select is easily spammable and connects if the opponent goes for a counterattack this strategy covers right away.

Of course, all this can be further combined with TEGing, making this technique even more ridiculous.

 

I have a question about this OS.

When doing , Goh is at -10, but with precise timing, +K:+ can beat high/mid punches and elbows as well as reversal throws into Tsukami. So far, I can do it, however inconsistently.

But if I add a TE, I never seem to get the Tsukami throw reversal!
Is it possible this is a balancing feature to prevent this OS from becoming too strong, by letting you make a risk/reward decision? It would be something like:

If I attempt ++ against a throw and succeed, I get Tsukami.

If I try to cover myself by also adding a TE, I will merely get the TE, and not the Tsukami.

Do you guys think this makes sense? Also, has anyone tried to see if you can reversal throws into Tsukami from further disadvantage, such as -12 or more? If so, can it be done?