VF4 Wolf

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Myke, Feb 2, 2002.

  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Just a couple of questions.

    His low punch reversal (d+P+K) has two variations which are dependant on which arm is used for the punch (left or right). The first variation is the switch (right handed low punch), where he quickly exchanges position with the opponent and exposes their back. From here, the Knee is guaranteed for an air combo, or the b+P slams them face down with legs curling upward, allowing for an OTG combo.

    The second variation occurs against left handed low punches, where Wolf quickly counters the low punch with a standing knee. It seems that Wolf recovers pretty fast and the opponent is left standing in a stun of sorts. I managed to squeeze out a GS once as a followup, but didn't get a chance to properly test it. So, my question is if this is guaranteed? Kinda like how the DF+P (MC) - b+P "guaranteees" a GS.

    My second question is in regard to ground pickups. Has anyone found any throws which guarantee a pickup? Only (non-throw) guaranteed pickups I know are the b+P slam in a float, and the f,d+K knockdown.

    Last question (I promise) is about his uf+K+G. This staggers a standing defender, but Wolf ends up on the ground anyway, so it's kinda pointless in that he can't take advantage of the stagger. Am I missing something here? It's nice when it connects for a clean hit though.
     
  2. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    MyKe:

    his armbar into clothes line (f>b+P+G, P+G) guarantee's a pickup. The player has to G to turn around as soon as recovery permits and enter the Pick Up. This is the suprise exchange variant and nothing is guaranteed as a follow up *but* interesting mind games occur.

    Low Punch Reversal (push variant): A throw is guaranteed (but then *real* testing can occur now that the PS2 version has so many goodies) but in most cases it is as good to apply other situations such as the charging chop, arrow knuckle or tripping moves. And the GS is the worst throw to do in that situation since it erodes any pressure you might have been building.

    In my limited experience with Wolf's uf+K+G it appears to have little utility outside of placing the opponent in a stagger which they recover from earlier than Wolf does. At first I thought it would be similar to Tekken 1's somersault staggers where you could guarantee a rising attack would hit but nah...

    GE
     
  3. danny13

    danny13 Well-Known Member

    Perhaps you can use the uf+K+G to wast time?
     
  4. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Just some additional notes to what GE pointed out.

    After the switch variant of his low punch reversal - the knee is not guaranteed. It hits often but if your opponent knows this is coming, they can struggle and block it while turning around. Same goes for the situation of the surprise exchange variant of the pickup that GE touched on. Nothing is guaranteed but the mind games begin.

    Pickup is guaranteed after df,df+P+K+G as well. In fact, that's the only reason I do that particular low throw from time to time. It's damage is less than df+P+K+G but the pickup is there. There's some fun in that.

    Im not so sure that a throw is guaranteed after the knee bashing variant of the low reversal. I too, have thrown a GS in there for some sickening damage but I'm pretty sure it was helped quite a bit by the opponent's brain freeze. I think Wolf's at an advantage in this situation for sure, but I think a small dash is required for a throw - hence the reason a GS inputted not-so-quick works well.

    Side note on GS - maybe this is old news to some but it comes back to the decision of whether or not it's a catch throw. According to Johnson, whom I trust for tidbits of info like this, when the GS commands are inputted very fast, it's a normal throw. When inputted slower, it's a catch throw. This fits well with the ver.C tidbit about a 100 point GS for the fastest timing thind on pyrexia.

    So, for a GS after a low punch reversal - doing it slower I think yields better results.

    cheers,
     
  5. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Try f+P+K in a float on LW (i.e. mid-shldr, P[G], f+P+K (it slams), d+P+G) for guaranteed pickup. I'd recommend using b+P though.
     
  6. akiralove

    akiralove Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JTGC
    "After the switch variant of his low punch reversal - the knee is not guaranteed. It hits often but if your opponent knows this is coming, they can struggle and block it while turning around. Same goes for the situation of the surprise exchange variant of the pickup that GE touched on. Nothing is guaranteed but the mind games begin. "

    I was curious about this. I thought that the stagger created by the d+P+K was unstruggleable, like after a sabaki. I know there's no sabaki noise, but you don't see the shaking stick, right? If it's struggleable like Aoi's Inashi or a ST, we'd see the stick it seems. Can you explain?

    Spotlite
     
  7. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    I was curious about this. I thought that the stagger created by the d+P+K was unstruggleable, like after a sabaki. I know there's no sabaki noise, but you don't see the shaking stick, right? If it's struggleable like Aoi's Inashi or a ST, we'd see the stick it seems. Can you explain?

    Yeah, you're right in that there's no stick wiggling animation when the opponent and Wolf switch places. But I think the recovery is the same for both Wolf and the opponent. Turning around is instantaneous (practically) and on many occasions I've had the knee blocked, as well as having f+P+K blocked and b+P blocked. I'm pretty sure that it's a 50/50 situation, or close to it. The advantage that Wolf has is that the opponent's back is exposed - they must turn around and predict what Wolf will do. If not, then they get a Knee, etc in the back.

    To block the knee, etc., all the opponent has to do is hit guard and to turn around and kepp holding guard. I don't even think they have to technically struggle at all.

    cheers,
     
  8. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Side note on GS - maybe this is old news to some but it comes back to the decision of whether or not it's a catch throw. According to Johnson, whom I trust for tidbits of info like this, when the GS commands are inputted very fast, it's a normal throw. When inputted slower, it's a catch throw. This fits well with the ver.C tidbit about a 100 point GS for the fastest timing thind on pyrexia.

    Cool, thanks for the info! This way it all makes sense. I was wondering about that Pyrexia tidbit, but was cautious to speculate further.

    As for the LP cut switch, I'm not sure about knee, but Hiro was pretty adamant that Wolf's SS is guaranteed, though the timing is strict. The knee seems to be about the same execution time?
     
  9. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    I think both are guaranteed. I think the reason that opponents block from time to time is the wolf player has to *react* to the animation (if they weren't paying attention) and inputs the knee too late. Hiro is right. The timing is super strict and unless the opponent is equally slow knee or SS will be blocked.

    GE
     
  10. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    regards to your last two questions...

    1>> i found that the ground pick up is best used close to a wall, in part 4, they've altered it so the opponent crumbles on the wall intersection, so it's an easy chance to CD forward and use his wall throw guaranteed..., when you are not next to a wall however, if you are lucky.. you can squeese in his u/f, p+g frankenstiner or his f,p+g throw stance (abit iffy, though i've pulled it off on a number of occasions...)

    the best time to use the ground pick up is after a b,f+p barge, or a back breaker... it's actually quite a versetile move which can be used to annoy, or catch the opponent off guard, but once it misses, you're quite vonerable i must say..

    ------------------------------------------------
    list of throws for ground pick up:
    ------------------------------------------------
    - df,df,p+g ~ pick up
    - df,df,p+g,p+g ~ pick up
    - f p+g(stance), f p+g (back stance) b p+g ~ pick up
    - df p+g ~ fast pick up
    - after giant swing, run and slam d p+g about 3 steps infront of opponent
    - u / d p+k+g (evading body slam) ~ pick up
    - d p+k+g (opponent crouch) ~ pick up
    - after a high kick counter ~ pick up

    2>> his u/f k+g is best used to drive your opponent out of the ring whever they' re blocking or not, in regards to your question, there is not much use in the crumble which is quite annoying.. i'd stick with the basic u/f k if you wan't reaction..

    since i'm closely working on my wolf lately, i'll post a couple of stuff regarding my own findings, they may or may not be new to you...

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    WALL TECHIQUES:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The HC+p,p combo can lead in to many combos near a wall i.e, 2 low kicks or a f+p,p, also, there were some good techniques into wall throwing too,... examle..

    1> b,f+p (near a wall) d,p+g (crumble into wall), CD into a d,f+p+g
    2> f+p+g stance into d,f+p+g (near a wall), CD into a d,f+p+g


    Also, the arm-lock swing is now also a wall throw (opponent's back facing wall)... i have yet to see his back-turned f,p+k+g wall pounce though, i've seen lion's and kages (^_^)....

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    COMBOS:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    i worked out a few which i was not familiar with, perhaps others may already seen them...

    1> b+p (knock down) ~ p ~ b,f+p+k ~ b,f+p+k
    2> b+p (knock down) ~ p ~ b+k+g, k ~ d+k
    3> b+p (knock down) ~ half circle backwards+p ~ b,f+p+k ~ b,f+p+k
    4> b+p (knock down) ~ d+p ~ low drop kick
    5>b,f+p+k ~ HC(backwards)+p ~ b,f+p+k ~ b,f+p+k
    6>b,f+p+k ~ HC(backwards)+p,p ~ d+k


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    HELPFUL MOVES:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    the move i found most helpful was the new evading side throw (d/u,p+g+k), it's also a clever way of keeping inside the ring when people try to combo you out...

    my second, was the b,b,p+g charging throw into back-throw stance, it's extremely helpful as it evades the opponent's first attack (i.e flipkick or knee) and retaliates into a back-breaker or a push move where you could crumble them against the wall for a running barge..

    my third is the b+k+g,k ... it's a great juggling extra and has quite a long reach too, it's nice after a b+p, and is surprisingly quite swift...
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    i'm trying to start a tech page on my site, chanchai's already given me a good quote for the k-step page, i'd like to get some good quotes of different people's statergies concerning different's fighters...

    if you have things you wan't to put up, plz PM me and i'll put it up ASP
     
  11. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Some discrepancies ( and I'm guessing these are mostly vs. computer based exp.) :

    ------------------------------------------------
    list of throws for ground pick up:
    ------------------------------------------------
    - df,df,p+g ~ pick up <font color=white><--- Not gonna happen vs. human opp. easy to QR</font color=white>
    - df,df,p+g,p+g ~ pick up <font color=white><--- Same for this</font color=white>
    - f p+g(stance), f p+g (back stance) b p+g ~ pick up <font color=white><--- Same</font color=white>
    - df p+g ~ fast pick up<font color=white> <--- forget this</font color=white>
    - after giant swing, run and slam d p+g about 3 steps infront of opponent <font color=white><--- Possible if wall hit</font color=white>
    - u / d p+k+g (evading body slam) ~ pick up<font color=white> <--- QR</font color=white>
    - d p+k+g (opponent crouch) ~ pick up<font color=white> <--- dont know/doubt it</font color=white>
    - after a high kick counter ~ pick up <font color=white><--- dont know</font color=white>

    Combos :

    1> b+p (knock down) ~ p ~ b,f+p+k ~ b,f+p+k
    2> b+p (knock down) ~ p ~ b+k+g, k ~ d+k
    3> b+p (knock down) ~ half circle backwards+p ~ b,f+p+k ~ b,f+p+k

    I havent succesfully landed high hitting maneuvers after a b+P slam. I'll try them out, see how it works.

    If you want wolf's best combo vs. LW ->

    - <font color=white>mid-shldr (MC), P[G], P[G], P[G] (wall hit), m-sledgehammer punch (d/f,d/f,f+P)</font color=white>.
    Thats a good 50%~100 points of damage. Its technically possible to not have a wall hit, but I havent succeeded.

    - <font color=white>mid-shldr, P[G], P[G], m-sledgehammer</font color=white> is an excellent Ring Out technique vs. MW (MC)+ LW .

    - Heavy 2 hit combo ( about 40% damage ) is <font color=white>charged shoulder ram, m-sledgehammer</font color=white>. The m-sledgehammer needs to connect as soon as you hear the impact on the charged shoulder ram for max damage. If a wall hit ensues, there is possible combo follow up.
     
  12. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Good replies all round.

    I'll have to agree with Mr. White though, on the ground pickups not being possible in that list bare_knuckle posted. It certainly doesn't work against the d+P+K+G low throw, or after the high kick reversal, because I tried them both.

    Another move I found that guarantees a pickup is the Clothesline (f,f+P). A quick tap of G beforehand helps Wolf to align himself.

    I've been playing a lot of Wolf and Jeffry lately, and I'm still undecided as to which "heavy" I should be loyal to. They're both hella fun to play though. Although my Wolf is faring better overall, my Jeffry's 8 second KO against a certain Sarah player tonight was quite satisfying /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  13. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    yeah, you guessed it was mostly against the CPU, though i never knew you could tech roll after a body slam or the evading body slam,... my bad

    heh, i guess i'm the one who needs questions.. in they were most of my stratergies in VF3, i had no idea you could easily escape them in part4... (with good opposition that is..)

    oh well, back to the drawing board..
     
  14. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Hey guys sorry but I'm going to add some questions along with mykes.

    1) I've got a guy that whores the lp at my arcade, I've picked up wolf and was wondering what the timing was for his LP counter and what I should do after it hits?
    2) After the b+P can you combo and if so what combo do you use? or is the pickup gauranteed?
    3) Is there anything gauranteed after the pick up or are the chars at an even keel?
    4) f+p,p: Is the second hit of this string garaunteed or does it take MC? i.e.- Does it act like jacky's elbow+k?
     
  15. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Actually, there's a training section in PS2 VF4 that specifically talks about countering the low P. Basically, if you block a low P while standing guard, any elbow class move will beat out a second low P. (Of course, there might be a few exceptions, but this is just off the top of my head)
     
  16. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    1) I've got a guy that whores the lp at my arcade, I've picked up wolf and was wondering what the timing was for his LP counter and what I should do after it hits?

    Best way I've found to practice the timing is with a P,K ( opp. blocks) then immediately a d+P+K for the low punch counter. You'll get a feeling for the timing of the reversal with this sequence. Everything else is just instinct and conditioning. As for what to do after the rev : if its a switch rev. try a floater starter usually. I've managed to dodge and low side throw after a switch lp rev. As for the knee lp rev., its tricky : You might want to do a b+P | cd throw | f+P+K | Knee , but I dont think any of these are a guaranteed tag. Just 2 days ago I knee lp reved opp. ( who was playing with Akira ) and I followed up with a knee (f+K) immediately after, only to get knee reved by Akira in return ( which was quite a cool sequence to see actually ), so I dont think much is guaranteed after ( maybe experiment with less obvious follow up moves? )

    2) After the b+P can you combo and if so what combo do you use? or is the pickup gauranteed?

    I've tried the combos Bare Knuckle posted on this thread with the b+P starter and have managed 2/3's of them as the opp. can TR/QR out of them usually by the 4th hit. Standard b+P, P[G] is a good combo starter, end with mid-shldr, m-sledgehammer, etc.
    The pickup after b+P is guaranteed.

    3) Is there anything gauranteed after the pick up or are the chars at an even keel?

    Still not sure.

    4) f+p,p: Is the second hit of this string garaunteed or does it take MC? i.e.- Does it act like jacky's elbow+k?

    I've found that it takes an MC to pull the second punch out.
     
  17. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    3) Is there anything gauranteed after the pick up or are the chars at an even keel?

    Still not sure.



    The characters are on an even keel, with wolf having maybe a slight advantage. A simple guessing game you can follow up with is to do a knee/shrm of you think they will struggle-and-attack... or crouch dash into the d/f, d/f+P+G throw if you think they will struggle-and-guard.
     
  18. MrWhite

    MrWhite Well-Known Member

    Other trick with wolf being his rising kicks. If Wolf is knocked down facing the ground and you do a low rising kick he will do his "one leg slide" that will knockdown the opp. Just as opp is kd you can connect a sledgehammer punch. It takes off decent damage.
     
  19. CreeD

    CreeD Well-Known Member

    Yeah wolf and akira's facedown slides are great. Easily reamed if blocked though.
    But either guarantees a pounce, and with Akira I do a bodycheck for fairly good damage.

    I notice oki feels stronger and more useful than 3, even though there was nothing wrong with VF3 okizeme. It used to be that a minor counter after the opponent's rising sweep didn't seem to yield much because A: it was only a minor counter, not an interrupt and B: the opponent is crouched, which usually means slightly less float to work with.

    Now, with lau, I sit outside of rising attack range, see jeffry whiff a rising sweep, and reflexively d/f+P+K.. the float is sufficient for d/f+PPPsweep, despite being only a minor counter vs. crouched heavyweight.

    Of course, if I tested properly, I wouldn't be surprised if d/f+P+K, d/f+PPPsweep hits on anyone with no counter, making it a pig tool. I know that when I usually land it vs. heavies, only the first punch and the sweep connects, and the sweep's OTB.
     
  20. Shang

    Shang Well-Known Member

    > But either guarantees a pounce, and with Akira I do a bodycheck for fairly good damage.

    tis tis tis. Actually the bodycheck in this case does a hair of damage but I'm sure yupa knows the best damage option in this case! /versus/images/icons/smile.gif hehehe I love picking on you.
     

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