VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fair?

Now that the results are in for Evo 2k7, I wanted to put forth this query about the specific case of VF5, a game that was began location testing about one year before the PS3 release, and saw full arcade release about 7 months before anyone else in the world could even play it.

Is it fair in a tournament setting for players who've had access to the game, not to mention a HUGE arcade scene that's available nationwide, since July '06 (earlier if you want to count location test play) to compete with players who've been able to play the game since Febuary '07?

In the case of almost any other game @ Evo, I'd say the point is moot AFAIK, and I think it was for VF4 Evo as well. But, in all fairness, I'd have to say that while the scene for VF4 in Japan and outside could be called apples and oranges, I'd say that in the case of VF5, it's like watermellons and cherries. This case is specific since the game is still relativly new, and ONLY Japan was allowed to play the game for a long time before anyone else, and was the only country allowed by Sega to have a chance to build an arcade scene. The rest of the world is required to play VF5 in player-organized sessions. In Japan, you can venture to commercial locations by yourself, and easily play VF5 with dozens of different players in an afternoon.

One or Two more years down the road into the life of the game, and I wouldn't ask the same question.

I'm interested in what other people think (not here to offer my own opinion), but I'd like to say this so there's no confusion:

I think ANY person playing in Japan since the release of arcade VF5 would have the same advantage, not just Japanese players.

I think the participation of Yosuke is like the participation of anyone else outside of Japan.

The winners deserve their props, congratulations to them.

Does the challenge excite people, is it fair, would the tourney be more exciting if the playing field were leveled to players OUTSIDE of japan?

what are people's thoughs on this unique situation?

 

The opportunity to play against and/or host players that are on another level (even many levels above) is an honored opportunity for me.

And I would gladly pay money for it, personally.

I think they are more than welcome at an event like Evolution World.

Then again, my view is probably atypical as many people are motivated enough to go to Evo World because of the prize. But I do think that the prize is still a relatively minor incentive when you factor how much it costs for everyone to travel and stay in Las Vegas for a puny chance at making that money back (outside of money matches anyways).

I regret not going to Evo World this year. I knew that I had almost no chance of making it far in the tournament, but like my trips to California this year as well as the trips to Seattle, I was willing to spend a lot of money for playing against a much stronger field than I have around me. And even though California and Seattle are on the West Coast, they were still very expensive trips for me (especially with all the SUV driving on Memorial Day Weekend).

Maybe it's because Evolution is called Evo World that I think it's more than fair. If it was advertised as a national tournament with maybe an exhibition mini-tournament following the main event... I guess you could make a case for that.

That said, I still think it's a huge honor to play against such players in the most serious form of competition I have access to. Even if it means I probably have no chance to make it into the top 10 of the tournament.

So yes, the challenge truly excites me ^_^ And somehow, it feels right at Evo World imo.

However, get more gatherings like the March Gathering in SoCal, have Plague and HowBoutSum run the tournament--and I think you have your VF5 Nationals right there!

-Chanchai

 

VEGAS was GODDAMM HOT!!!

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Maybe the japanese should ban us from watching their youtube videos and tournaments and we should figure everything out on our own including frame data, etc.
Personally im happy that japanese players come to the US as it really helps us (or at least me) improve my game.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

"Does the challenge excite people, is it fair, would the tourney be more exciting if the playing field were leveled to players OUTSIDE of japan?"

my 2 honest cents:

1)"Does the challenge excite people?"

of course.

2)"is it fair?"

imo, no (this is debatable, but its what first comes to mind)

3)"would the tourney be more exciting if the playing field were leveled to players OUTSIDE of japan?"

I see it like this: take the prize money away and I bet more people would of showed up at evo. from what I hear some folks didnt go cause it seemed "pointless" to go.

Im willing to bet that the excitement that a regular dude from the USA trained since the ps3 release could win 5k would be a hella more exciting since everyone has this "i might just win 5k!" in their minds. money certainly helped bring SOME people to evo for vf but the people that cant afford it but still could of made a sacrifice..didnt go cause the chances were so daam low (you got 5 "top of the line" japanese and one of them just won first place in japan...holy S...)



it is AWESOME to play great players like them and you do learn a lot, but imo, that kinda learning I would rather be just a gathering than an actual tourney with a huge prize money on the line. basically as harsh as it sounds, and some people might find it wrong but -I- think evo organizers should of just let people that live in the US compete, problem is that shit aint easy to do! its a no win situation.

just my 2 cents folks, do not flame /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

EVO is always about the foreign competition. So banning japan for the sake of western VF is out of the question for the organizers of the event.

Why don't we, as western VF players just host a big fat "Western Cup Championship" or something like that and invite like Europe, Aus, Canada, China, Korea, etc. Like sometime in the winter right before christmas season. Think "positive steps" and it will get you farther along.

There's always going to be a huge gap between Western/Non-japanese and Japanese play because there is no way you can replace the value of the arcade scene and competition. But always complaining about how Japan is so unbeatable isn't going to change anything, look at the SF scene. If all their top players did was complain about how Japan pwns them, then they would never be where they were, beating legends like Daigo and Gian in fair double elimination standards.

I think us as Americans, Westerners, and Non-Japanese just need to keep playing and focus more on cultivating interest and dedication in the game than worrying about how far Japan is ahead of us.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I agree 100%, well said

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

the statement "the japanese is on another level to us" will keep you on that level for the rest of your VF life.

infact grouping anybody who is remotely japanese, or has played in japan to be better than you is distored and ridiculous~

you can get as good as anybody in the world with your game, your ps3, training mode and somebody/anybody with just as much enthusiasim as you.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

A few bits of advice.
*Watch alot of youtube footage.
*Up your input timing.
*Develop your own style.
*Work on moves or combos that are difficult for you
until you perfect them.
*Learn frames duh
*Realize that you're not the best no matter how
good you get and there is always room for
improvement.
*Keep your game face on during tournament play.

It's all fair if you do the following.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Oh yeah nice stealling candy from a baby picture.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

japanese players have an advantage that non JP's have. and that's an active VF scene.. no matter how hard you try, you can't duplicate that the way north america's arcade scene is.. so you can't really say it's "fair"... but none the less.. it's always possible to keep improving

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Agrees with DarkGift here. This is exactly why in tekken there can be no international players for evo in tekken.In all honesty they would own our tourneys practically every year.

Tekken wise, US player got beaten pretty badly at tougeki this year. This can be compared to VF as well. It is kinda unfair for US and Japanese competition but then again life isn't fair. Fairness doesn't always go with competition these daysthough. Which is in
the case of VF.

While I agree its unfair, I believe that it is good though as it can make us US player better. I personally like fighting in sometimes unfair situations as evo for the best fighters and not necessarily US/national only.It can stretch to other nations as well.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

1. Do that too much.
2. I can shimmy-step well /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif, does that count?!
3. My Vanessa was unique. The core of my game was /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and then cross my fingers.
4. Can't think of something self-deprecating for this one...
5. Read above
6. That's easy, read my sig.
7. Game face, lol. I tend to punch mine, ask Brisal.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Maybe rather keep it open, but have a seeding system akin to Tennis that would ensure that seeded (better) players start later in the tournament, making non-seeded players duke it out amongst themselves earlier on. This might make it tad more fair for the other players, who wouldnt have to face pros at the early stages. However, there would be a big problem how to determine the seeds. For people like Itazan, its a no-brainer, but what about the others.

ps. I hope that some day I may be able to participate. Travelling halfway around the globe is usually too much in reality /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I think it would work well if their was a limit on foreign players. It would bring out more stateside players to these events thus making the actual tournament more exicting. If I was watching a live stream of Evo I would be rooting on NYC players going against west coast players and that would make an intresting match. Instead I had to watch shag go against itazan on like the 2nd round and thier were points when I didnt even bother too watch..I knew the outcome way before he even sat on the chair. Dont get me wrong thou I love it when great japanese players come in play with us but it makes the actual tournament all about luck and surivial amongs the americans. If you happen to be an american player with a bracket full of japanese then I feel sorry for you if you traveld all the way for Evo alone.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

But Denkai, pretty much the same thing happens for every other fighting game that the japanese play. In 3S, if you end up in a bracket with Nuki/Tokido/Mester/Nitto/etc. You're pretty much screwed, difference is they don't complain about it and they come to together to try to overcome the japanese and so far they get better ever year.

Same case fo CvS2, same case for GG scene (which is almost exactly like ours), same case for Super Turbo, same case for even Tekken (except now you add in Koreans to that mix).

Stopping the japanese form competeting imo only makes us weaker in the long run cause we never get to play them. Besides, one day we may upset the japanese players and that alone is worth it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

I'm all for japanese entering the tournaments I just think their should be fixed number much like their is at SBO.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

Even if I somehow agree with some of your points I think it's not a good idea to compare Evo with SBO. I believe the main reason SBO has a foreign team limitation is because it would be unfair for japanese players (which overall level is higher) who have to go through japanese qualifications and seriously deserve their spot in the tournament. Most of the time foreign teams that have a spot in the final 32 would'nt have passed the Last Chance tourney.
In evo's case it would be baning people because they're too strong which is the oposite, and don't seem natural for me.
Moreover past Evos shown that it's possible to beat Japanese players on a 2/3 matchs basis, Myke manage to beat Nuki this year even with +6 months difference between the release of the PS3 version. Maybe this edition timig wasn't the best for a "fair" tourney on VF5, but this doesn't mean they should change the rules to make it easier for western players imo.

 

Re: VF5 @ Evo 2k7, Japan vs. Any Other Country: Fa

What's funny is that on LIVE, the fighting environment will mimic that of the Japanese arcades. I was in Japan for 2 months, and when I went to Tokyo (only like 4 days), I blew about 40 bucks on VF in the arcades(played in akihabara, shibuya, harajuku, ikebukuro... basically everywhere I saw an arcade/club sega in Tokyo). Generally you don't see who you fight, it is just a name at the top of the screen, and you just sit around and wait for something to pop up telling you you have a challenger. Most people never see the faces of who they fight as you sit across from your challenger. Too bad online has lag, or the xbox live version could be our equivalent of Japanese arcades.