VF5 Impressions - Come and Get Some!

Hey VFers, I finally got the chance to play VF5 and wanted to share with you my general impressions. Overall, I love it. When all things are said and done, my guess is that VF5 will be considered a better and deeper game than VF4.

GRAPHICS

Let us get this out of the way. The game, which I played on 720p, looks good. The detail in the characters is unbelievable - they make DOA4's and T5's characters look positively plain. The backgrounds, for the most part, look impressive. However, they are impressive only in a looking-at-a-painting-in-a-museum kind of way; they do not give you the sense of aesthetic immersion that DOA4 does. I will understand if people who have played both games in HD still think that DOA4 looks better; in some sense, it does. The character detail and lighting in VF5, however, put all other fighting games to shame.

At some point I kept looking back and forth between VF4: FT (on a low resolution cabinet) and VF5 to see whether VF5's graphics “pop†out as next generation. I would say that it does generally but when I look at VF4: FT I still think of it as a good looking game. Come to think about it, however, I thought the same when comparing VF4 to VF3. I think the days of gasping at graphics are over – we are unlikely to see the kind of leap that we saw between VF3 vs. VF2 and VF2 vs. VF1. The graphics arms race has become commoditized.

I love the animation in VF5. I think it is a noticeable leap above all other fighting games, VF4 included.

SOUND

Those of you who have been watching VF5 clips will already know the background music and sound effects are significantly improved over VF4. I will leave it at that and move on to more interesting things.

I hate the English in-game commentary. I might turn it on for novelty sake for one or two days after I get the official PS3 version, but I found it incredibly annoying. It is a good idea, but Sega will likely need another version of the game to perfect it. The commentary just needs to be more varied and natural.

GAMEPLAY

OK, the meat and potatoes of the game - this is the reason why we love to play VF. I am going to tackle this part in an FAQ style.

Is the game more offensive friendly or more defensive friendly?

It is a mixed bag. It is more offensive friendly in the sense that more moves have become uncounterable, many moves are “safer†since true nitaku does not exist at +6 frames or lower, the clash provides some insurance to throw attempts, OMs as another offenisve option, and side-turned situations are more commonplace. These changes make it easier to be offensive minded.

However, it is also more defensive friendly in the sense that because true nitaku is harder to come by, players who can fuzzy guard and move well will be harder to hit. The game system will reward players like Adam (great fuzzy guarding) and Maddy (fast movement and good spacing).

True nitaku does not occur unless at +7 frames advantage or better - is this a good or bad thing?

I think this is a good thing. First, a significant number of moves have been tweaked so that they recover at -7 frames or worse, so it is not like taking VF4 stats and only changing the throw execution speed. There are now a reasonable set of moves that can be classified as small disadvantage, medium disadvantaged, true nitaku disadvantaged, and attack/throw counterable.

Second, true nitaku actually means much more in VF5 than it does in VF4. Taking the clash formula, where 12 < (attack/2) + advantage, being at +7 means that the attack has to be 10 frames or faster to clash, which amounts to very few moves. This means that you can throw attempt with much more safety; defenders would have to use jump attacks, low attacks, or back-turned attacks to do reverse nitaku. True nitaku is better in VF5.

Third, the system quite simply rewards motor skill. Sometimes an intermediate player can beat a more advanced player because the intermediate player guesses correctly more times in true nitaku situations. On the one hand, this can be seen as a good thing because this means the intermediate player has more of a chance. On the other, it can be seen as a negative thing because the better player is losing to probability instead of skill. How does yomi play in all of this? Well I think yomi exists in both true nitaku situations and imperfect nitaku situations. Sega is simply putting more emphasis on the latter – and this rewards the player with better fuzzy guarding, delay tactics, 0-frame instinct, low throw attempts, and movement.

For the above reasons, I think the change in the system is better.

What about those clashes? Are they annoying?

I played perhaps a total of 35-40 matches, and I remember clashing only about 5 times. I am surprised at how quickly people have adapted – my mind was constantly thinking about using attacks that do not clash to reverse nitaku. The 5 times that it did actually clash were more accident than forgetfulness.

Would I ever clash on purpose as a defensive technique? Right now, I am thinking hell no, but who knows. Certainly on paper I do not think clashing on purpose makes any sense – there are better alternatives for every situation.

How useful is the Offensive Move?

No idea in terms of experience. I kept forgetting to use them. However, my guess is that OMs will eventually be a useful part of every player’s offensive arsenal. It will probably not make the same impact that innovations in dodging did to VF3 and VF4, but it will make a difference. Already you can see from the more recent clips that the Japanese are finally figuring out how to use OMs effectively. According to Shin, our new resident VFer from Japan (who qualified for Otenami Haiken and defeated Senningiri!), OMs are quite strong and increasingly used in Japan.

Is the 0-frame throw a gimmick?

Absolutely hells no. The 0-frame throw makes VF5 really interesting (and I am not just saying that because I play the throw characters). I think 0-frame throws will become a whole new gameplay variable. I.e., new types of guessing games will develop purely around trying to pull off 0-frame throws, and of course defenders must also react appropriately. Even just based on my limited experience with VF5, I could tell that 0-frame throws will add a lot to yomi in VF5. When do you go for a 0-frame throw? Should you delay? Could you use 0-frame throws as a defensive technique? These are all things to think about.

Which is faster, VF4 or VF5?

Good question. Flipping back and forth from FT and VF5, FT looks much faster. But I am wary to conclude that FT is actually faster for a few reasons:

- People are not used to VF5 yet and thus move awkwardly, whereas in VF4 players pretty much know what to do and thus execute with little wasted movement. The recent VF5 clips, for example, look darn fast

- Newer and smoother animations tend to make movement look slower

- We are so used to watching and playing VF4 that I think our mind tends to focus only on the most important things; and so in a sense our minds block out the unnecessary stuff, which makes the game appears faster

However, despite faster standing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gifs, most moves' recoveries have been increased in VF5 and this could be the cause for the game to appear moving more slowly.

What about the characters?

I only played four characters: Kage, Jeffry, Goh, and Lau. I had the most success with Kage even though I found him the most difficult to adjust. Kage is much different in VF5 – his throws are weakened, certain key moves are weakened (namely /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif), Jumonji now nearly useless, but his new stance (Shippujin in Japanese, but I may call it the Samurai stance) is great though a bit weird to use at first and his combo potential has been upgraded.

Jeffry feels the same as he does in FT, or at least, I played him in much the same way. He gets a 55-pt damage throw ending in /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif and some of his quicker moves have been made uncounterable, but losses/changes in some of his VF4 staple moves hurt. Further, his new moves don’t seem that useful to me yet. Even though he is much taller, his range is the same as it was in VF4 or less (which was strange at first because you expected it to be better given his massive height). I can see why the Enterbrain magazine had him as low tier, but I think he has enough tools to be competitive.

Goh is definitely improved in VF5. That Enterbrain magazine places him on par with Akira, and I can see why. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif combos on normal hit and is uncounterable. His damage potential is significantly increased. His new three hit string is good for poking. His /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is awesome. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is uncounterable. Booya. You can’t go wrong with Goh this time round.

I had the most difficulty with Lau, even though I thought he would be similar to his VF4 incarnation. The biggest adjustment to playing Lau would probably have been using /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Overall he seems weaker to me relative to the other characters. However, I just loved how he felt and moved in VF5 – he just looks so smooth and imposing.

So if VF5 is so good, why are certain people bitching about it non-stop?

The change in nitaku situations, the 0- and 12-frame throw, and the increased movement options (including OM, being able to cancel DMs with dashes) add up to a significantly different feel in VF5 – I am guessing this is the main source of many of the complaints (and unabashed negativity) out there. Players who “grew up†in VF4 may struggle to adapt to all the changes, which parsed separately do not appear significant but when taken together do amount to a very different game. I have seen players struggle in the transition from VF2 -> VF3 and VF3 -> VF4 and I expect the same to occur for VF5.

For those that stick with VF5, however, I am now very confident that they will find a richer and more fulfilling experience. So far, in the gameplay department, AM2 gets my thumbs up. VF5 may not be revolutionary, but it is certainly sufficiently evolutionary to merit dedicated playing time.

 

nice post Jeff.

 

Very detailed and rewarding read. Can't wait to get my hands on the PS3 version!!!

 

i am already tired to wait... =(((

 

Thanks for your post!
Can Lau still be played as aggressively as in FT?

 

Question - which game (4 or 5) do you think would be easier to teach to someone?

 

Virtua Fighter 4 without a doubt...less characters and less moves. Less evade options. No clash system or 0 frame throws. But even then I would just give someone a copy of Evo and say "training mode."

 

Thanks grynn. It's hard to tell right now. One of the main reasons Lau was able to be so aggressive is because he has moves with great evasive properties should he gets blocked, such as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. That move has changed in VF5 in that it no longer has its evasive properties, so now Lau has to rely more on /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif (now made uncounterable, though not as good as VF4's /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif in terms of its evasiveness) and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

Also, I'm not sure if it's just me, but Lau feels like he's lost a bit of his range. His /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif and sidekick seem to have shorter range, though perhaps it's a visual trick because Lau looks so tall in VF5. Moreover, his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif no longer floats on MC which is a big loss.

Finally, because he's lost some of his circularity, I feel that his ability to pressure and force different types of offensive games have been lessened.

 

VF4 in the sense that there are fewer concepts to learn.

VF5 in the sense that the game feels more instinctual and competition is less intensive (i.e. everyone will be learning the game).

 

Um... actually, VF5 is more accessible to new players imo.

 

Dude - are cryptic being much days these?!

VF5 appears to have more concepts than VF4 and there is less training material in the PS3 home version than there was in PS2 Evo. How is VF5 more accessible to new players? Please elaborate.

 

Great post man.

I can't help but think everyone who complains about VF5, as you mention in the end of your post, is just due to lack of extra modes such as the tutorial mode in EVO, or the transfering of characters. Don't think many have actual complaints about mechanics and visuals. The stuff that truely matters in a great fighter.

 

FUCK!

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can't help but think everyone who complains about VF5, as you mention in the end of your post, is just due to lack of extra modes...</div></div>

naah. ice-9 is talking about US players(perhaps non-US players too?) who have in-depth experience with the game in Japan. check out wannafight.us for some of these impressions.

 

The complaints are more a result of personal preference. Play the game and decide for yourself. You really need to have a highly developed knowledge and experience with VF4 to understand why some people prefer FT over VF5. Chances are, VF5's gameplay is more suited to the western players in general.

I like VF5, and you should make your own decision about the game as well.

 

VF5's animation is easily IMO one of the game's best features- it's a big step I think from VF4 and Evo- the moves and reactions in VF5 just look more natural, fluid and 'complete'. Better yet, it doesn't feel for me like it's just rehashed animations over and over (like Tekken has been doing in all their games since Tekken Tag, or DOA from DOA3).

The character models, I have to admit, grew on me after many, many weeks, but now I love the uniqueness of each character's look and the overall realistic style.

 

I agree with Srider, mostly just because of the speed difference... I feel like I actually have significantly more time to make decisions when playing 5 than I do playing 4. Though I guess that might not make too much of a difference to someone trying to learn playing against the CPU or something...

 

Ah HAH! Clarity! Especially if you, raoul, are a new player and are, in fact, finding 5 more accessible than 4. You have MC'd Srider's TPASEE (traipsing pontification and subsequent explanation evasion).

 

I didn't go into details cause I didn't feel like writing a long post..

Despite all the new gameplay features of VF5, the game is very similar to VF4. You have the same concepts all carrying over from VF4 like nitaku, sabaki, fuzzy guard, eteg, etc. In this sense, there are a tons more resources available to new and vet players because of all the information that has been written over the years for VF4. 95% of those info will carry over to VF5, information wise, the western scene is much much better off compared to VF4 days when we had to rely on second hand info from Japan. (We are still kind of slow compared to Japan, but really, we are much much better off nowadays.)

The one thing that US lacks is experience and technique. You can try to make argument, but the western player base really have no clue what high level play is like. None of us in the western world have really delved into the way the Japanese top players approach the game. I'm sure some of you with a high level of understanding in VF4 (maybe you maddy) who have talked VF with people like yosuke, understand this point. Western players also still lack in general the same execution of advanced techniques that the Japanese take for granted and integrate as a part of their overall strategy. Things like ETEG on P hit, reverse nitaku setups, offensive option select, these are things that not many players in the western world are capable of.

I mentioned this because in VF5, players who are not capable of adapting or doing advanced techniques can still do well by playing a one dimensional game. Sure, you might not be dominating, but anyone can be fairly competitive in VF5. Like what ice9 and raoul both said, due to the slower pace of the game , and the lack of true nitaku, the game puts players lacking advanced techniques on fairly level grounds with more technical players; in addition to a more apparent tier factor, and skewed risk/reward at times.

In the end, VF5 is more like tekken where it is possible to play the game fairly instinctively rather than pure technical knowledge. Yeah VF5 offers a lot more in gameplay possibilities, but it is a game where you can quickly get up to speed with very little knowledge. To become a player in the same league as the elite players, that remains difficult as always.

I don't find this to be particularly a bad thing, but this is partly the reason why there are those who have criticized the game. Anyways, I enjoy VF5, it feels methodical like I've said before. I would have liked if the game is a bit faster especially with evades, but it's a very minor issue. There's no reason why anyone should listen to what other people say or what I'm saying right now and think VF5 is not a good game. It's still the one game that provides me with nearly limitless amount of fun and replay value, especially when you have a nice scene around. There's no reason why anyone should doubt VF5's gameplay especially if you have not spent alot of time with VF4 to know it inside out.

 

If what you guys say is true and VF5 is more accessible to begining players then I would think this as a plus for the most part. Trying to explain (let alone learn myself in the begining) VF to friends is hard and people get frustrated easy. Then again I am a whole lot younger than most of the people in the scene, I'm almost certain that I'm the only one that is still in his teen years. Sometimes I forget a lot of the tactics I practice at home, like TEG and the worst is I forget the difference in wake up pressure depending on how the opponent falls down (face near, face away, etc), a very bad habit from DoA I guess.

I'm really eager to play this game, even though I don't even own a PS3. Ice-9's post is such a tease!!! I can't wait to play Sarah in this game. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif