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VF5 Revision A Discussion

Discussion in 'Arcade' started by supergolden, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. supergolden

    supergolden Well-Known Member Content Mgr El Blaze

    There have recently been talks about the new version, dubbed Version A... Location tests have been going on in Akihabara for some time...

    Jin talked about it a little bit in his most recent blog post at http://jinkage.blog.shinobi.jp

    (a rough translation by me)
    [ QUOTE ]
    On Sunday, I was shocked to see the location test for Version A at the Otenami Haiken qualifiers at West Shinjuku Club Sega.

    I wondered what the hell they were doing changing the version during the qualifiers for a big event like this…I guess it was because they could get a lot of data about the revision from the players at that tournament…

    ...

    In the first round of the qualifiers Mask de Hijetsu Jacky was confused by the new elbow properties and lost…

    Kage has some changes:
    <ul type="square">[*]Hurricane Stance [6][P] is linear
    [*]Hurricane Stance [3][P] disadvantage on block is greater
    [*]Timing on [4][K]+[G] hit throw is tougher
    [*]Stomach crumple combo damage has been decreased
    [*][3][P] is now considered ducking state, beats high, and do not clash with throws (thanks for the correct translation Srider!)
    [*][3][P][P] damage has been decreased
    [*]A few combos have been made harder to do...[/list]

    After talking with Koedo I think these are most of the changes...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    He goes on to talk about [3][P] and if you can hit check then you could use it like you did in FT... He also talked about Jumanji stance and how it isn't really useful now... In too many cases no matter what you do it just isn't effective...

    He also talks about how he hopes they don't released Revision A too soon...

    -Alex
     
  2. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    [3][P] is now considered ducking state, beats high, and do not clash with throws.

    Guess it wasn't in revision 1, but now it's back.
     
  3. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Thanks for sharing, Alex.

    One thing I've noticed from many of the Kage vids I've seen is that a lot of them are hardly using the Jumonji stance anymore. I know they've toned down the properties of some of the attacks but there are still some pros to JM[1], so I'm not sure if people think that Jumonji really is useless, or that they're still more interested in exploring the new stance.


    [1] In VF5 you can now DPC after JM [K]+[G] head crumble. That's pretty good reward for an uncounterable attack, although you do need a counter hit.
     
  4. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    JM doesn't seem as useful as the new stance to me, especially since you can also go into the new stance with elbow and [4][P]. JM [P]+[K] crumples only on sabaki, and JM [K]+[G] crumples only on counter. Sure you can do DPC, but AFAIK if you ukemi the DPC Kage is low throw counterable (0-frame throw!) and may also be elbow counterable.

    Overall, JM just doesn't seem as attractive in terms of risk-reward as Kage's new stance. In Revision 1 it seems like 3/4 of Kage's game is getting into his new stance, but it looks like Sega wants to balance that a bit more with his normal game in Version A.
     
  5. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    They would have to get rid of at least 1 option from his new stance to make jumonji attractive. I'd say take away p+g catch throw from new stance, since its striking options are superior to jumonji's.
     
  6. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    That's definitely a possibility--would that put a serious flaw in his new stance though? AFAIK none of his other attacks are full circular and it's always hard to delay attack from a stance.

    I never thought Kage's JM was too strong in VF4. I'd be an advocate of making his [P]+[K] and [K]+[G] crumple like it did in VF4 to encourage Kage players to keep JM part of their game. It was Kage's [3][P] (fair in Revision 1, now made strong again in Version A) and TFT (weak, weak, weak) that people had complained about.
     
  7. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    JM has good mid and throw options, and new stance has good mid, throw, low, and poking/pressure/safe (PPP string) options. As it stands, I think if throw got taken away from new stance, it would still be strong because PPP is awesome and the single/double sweeps are good. He really doesn't need the throw. Actually, new stance cancel -> throw is good anyway.
     
  8. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I'm worried that an ECD could nullify many of the options from Kage's new stance, including cancel throw. Either way, I'm sure Kage will be fine and his general popularity as a character will ensure he gets sufficient tourney play, and I'm sure people will continue to bitch about him. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  9. PhoenixDth

    PhoenixDth Well-Known Member

    [ QUOTE ]
    Dandy_J said:

    They would have to get rid of at least 1 option from his new stance to make jumonji attractive. I'd say take away p+g catch throw from new stance, since its striking options are superior to jumonji's.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    [ QUOTE ]
    ice-9 said:

    That's definitely a possibility--would that put a serious flaw in his new stance though? AFAIK none of his other attacks are full circular and it's always hard to delay attack from a stance.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    welcome to just about every other character in the game with a stance. Even without the throw kage has hands down the most "viable" options per stance. Getting rid of throw seems a lot more balanced to me.
     
  10. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Kage has a ECD killer from his new stance.

    Didn't you guys see the large uppercut swipe?

    Followed by lp and the twin uppercut combo.

    I think every character with stance has a launcher for dealing with ECD.
     
  11. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    PhoenixDth: Really? Which characters, which stances?

    Srider: [3][P] from stance is a really good move, but isn't it linear or half-circular at most?
     
  12. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    I don't know, but [3][P] from new stance avoids high so you can always delay it a bit, and it launches on normal hit and it's mid.

    [6][P] is uncounterable on block, and mid hit that crumples on hit.....

    You have the mid low mix up of [P][K] which is high low, with the low being possibly half or full circular; and [P][P][P] which is high mid mid, and you have [P]+[G] catch throw...

    I don't know what else you want to ask for without making him completely overpowered.
     
  13. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    [ QUOTE ]
    ice-9 said:

    Srider: [3][P] from stance is a really good move, but isn't it linear or half-circular at most?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah, unless the attack is mid or low full circular, I don't see how it's an "ECD killer".
     
  14. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    From what I've seen, the timing of the move hits alot of ECD actions.

    If you are not convinced, Kage also has [2][K][K] double sweep.
     
  15. Dandy_J

    Dandy_J Well-Known Member

    He also has fucking PPP which you can delay if they try to evade the 1st hit. And I thought it was hhm? If it's hmm that's fucking juice.
     
  16. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Srider: I'm pretty sure the double sweeps are not full circular.

    Dandy: AFAIK PPP is hhm.

    If they took the catch throw away from Kage's new stance, I think he'll survive and be fine, it'll just be a little harder to use him.
     
  17. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    White Book says [P][P][P] is High Mid Mid.
     
  18. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Oh...

    and [2][K][K] from new stance IS full circular.

    First hit leaves you back turned if you like to play mind tricks.

    If you MUST complain about Kage's lack of options...

    [6][P] from new stance is now linear instead of half circular....
     
  19. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    WOT!!! That's awesome news! Kekekeke.... /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif Then he definitely doesn't need the catch throw as I'd rather do the low sweeps.
     
  20. Pai_Garu

    Pai_Garu Well-Known Member

    Where is this idea that they are taking away the catch throw in new stance? haha, and you will even have that still to beat basically everything the opponent can do. Even guard breaks!!

    Also, I think what jumonji will be used more mostly now will be for ring positioning. You can seriously push people around the ring in jumonji.
     

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