VF5 Revision A Discussion

There have recently been talks about the new version, dubbed Version A... Location tests have been going on in Akihabara for some time...

Jin talked about it a little bit in his most recent blog post at http://jinkage.blog.shinobi.jp

(a rough translation by me)
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On Sunday, I was shocked to see the location test for Version A at the Otenami Haiken qualifiers at West Shinjuku Club Sega.

I wondered what the hell they were doing changing the version during the qualifiers for a big event like this…I guess it was because they could get a lot of data about the revision from the players at that tournament…

...

In the first round of the qualifiers Mask de Hijetsu Jacky was confused by the new elbow properties and lost…

Kage has some changes:
<ul type="square">[*]Hurricane Stance is linear
[*]Hurricane Stance disadvantage on block is greater
[*]Timing on + hit throw is tougher
[*]Stomach crumple combo damage has been decreased
[*] is now considered ducking state, beats high, and do not clash with throws (thanks for the correct translation Srider!)
[*] damage has been decreased
[*]A few combos have been made harder to do...[/list]

After talking with Koedo I think these are most of the changes...

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He goes on to talk about and if you can hit check then you could use it like you did in FT... He also talked about Jumanji stance and how it isn't really useful now... In too many cases no matter what you do it just isn't effective...

He also talks about how he hopes they don't released Revision A too soon...

-Alex

 

is now considered ducking state, beats high, and do not clash with throws.

Guess it wasn't in revision 1, but now it's back.

 

JM doesn't seem as useful as the new stance to me, especially since you can also go into the new stance with elbow and . JM + crumples only on sabaki, and JM + crumples only on counter. Sure you can do DPC, but AFAIK if you ukemi the DPC Kage is low throw counterable (0-frame throw!) and may also be elbow counterable.

Overall, JM just doesn't seem as attractive in terms of risk-reward as Kage's new stance. In Revision 1 it seems like 3/4 of Kage's game is getting into his new stance, but it looks like Sega wants to balance that a bit more with his normal game in Version A.

 

They would have to get rid of at least 1 option from his new stance to make jumonji attractive. I'd say take away p+g catch throw from new stance, since its striking options are superior to jumonji's.

 

That's definitely a possibility--would that put a serious flaw in his new stance though? AFAIK none of his other attacks are full circular and it's always hard to delay attack from a stance.

I never thought Kage's JM was too strong in VF4. I'd be an advocate of making his + and + crumple like it did in VF4 to encourage Kage players to keep JM part of their game. It was Kage's (fair in Revision 1, now made strong again in Version A) and TFT (weak, weak, weak) that people had complained about.

 

JM has good mid and throw options, and new stance has good mid, throw, low, and poking/pressure/safe (PPP string) options. As it stands, I think if throw got taken away from new stance, it would still be strong because PPP is awesome and the single/double sweeps are good. He really doesn't need the throw. Actually, new stance cancel -> throw is good anyway.

 

I'm worried that an ECD could nullify many of the options from Kage's new stance, including cancel throw. Either way, I'm sure Kage will be fine and his general popularity as a character will ensure he gets sufficient tourney play, and I'm sure people will continue to bitch about him. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

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Dandy_J said:

They would have to get rid of at least 1 option from his new stance to make jumonji attractive. I'd say take away p+g catch throw from new stance, since its striking options are superior to jumonji's.

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ice-9 said:

That's definitely a possibility--would that put a serious flaw in his new stance though? AFAIK none of his other attacks are full circular and it's always hard to delay attack from a stance.


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welcome to just about every other character in the game with a stance. Even without the throw kage has hands down the most "viable" options per stance. Getting rid of throw seems a lot more balanced to me.

 

Kage has a ECD killer from his new stance.

Didn't you guys see the large uppercut swipe?

Followed by lp and the twin uppercut combo.

I think every character with stance has a launcher for dealing with ECD.

 

PhoenixDth: Really? Which characters, which stances?

Srider: from stance is a really good move, but isn't it linear or half-circular at most?

 

I don't know, but from new stance avoids high so you can always delay it a bit, and it launches on normal hit and it's mid.

is uncounterable on block, and mid hit that crumples on hit.....

You have the mid low mix up of which is high low, with the low being possibly half or full circular; and which is high mid mid, and you have + catch throw...

I don't know what else you want to ask for without making him completely overpowered.

 

From what I've seen, the timing of the move hits alot of ECD actions.

If you are not convinced, Kage also has double sweep.

 

He also has fucking PPP which you can delay if they try to evade the 1st hit. And I thought it was hhm? If it's hmm that's fucking juice.

 

Srider: I'm pretty sure the double sweeps are not full circular.

Dandy: AFAIK PPP is hhm.

If they took the catch throw away from Kage's new stance, I think he'll survive and be fine, it'll just be a little harder to use him.

 

White Book says is High Mid Mid.

 

Oh...

and from new stance IS full circular.

First hit leaves you back turned if you like to play mind tricks.

If you MUST complain about Kage's lack of options...

from new stance is now linear instead of half circular....

 

WOT!!! That's awesome news! Kekekeke.... /versus/images/graemlins/lol.gif Then he definitely doesn't need the catch throw as I'd rather do the low sweeps.

 

Where is this idea that they are taking away the catch throw in new stance? haha, and you will even have that still to beat basically everything the opponent can do. Even guard breaks!!

Also, I think what jumonji will be used more mostly now will be for ring positioning. You can seriously push people around the ring in jumonji.